Post-Game Talk: Avs @ Caps | 1/12/15 | 7pm EST | Varly's Revenge III

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Perhaps it is odd because it is so amazingly prescient!

BMac's vision for the Caps is unclear at this point—that's fine as long as he has a great vision and will act on it when the time is right. What's weird is that just about every other GM I can remember made deals early. McPhee made a lot of little deals for picks and marginal players which I liked because I thought he was building relationships with rival GMs. Nill in Dallas is the guy I wanted—he has made many deals and, whether it works or not, he is building the team according to his vision. I also like Yzerman in Tampa—I can't remember when he started dealing but he has been active. We'll see what BMac does.

BMac stated his vision was to make our team tougher to play against. He and Trotz have certainly done that. You're reaching here.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I think you have to go for a top line rental RW and 3 pairing LD to replace Hillen

Keep Green around and make a run for it with this D. F it.

This is my thinking as well. Go for it.

 

[Atlas]

What do you mean by "vision" here? What was the vision for each of these GMs you mentioned?

That's a good question. I can't put another man's vision into words very easily but I think I can tell when a GM has a vision. The old Avs GM (Pierre Lacroix) had a plan. There was a logic to his moves. He was bold. He traded Owen Nolan for Ozolinsh. He traded Wendel Clark for Claude Lemieux. He traded for Patrick Roy. He traded for Theo Fleury. He traded for Rob Blake. He traded for Kasparaitis. He traded for Ray Bourque and Dale Hunter. He wanted an abrasive, highly skilled team—he targeted certain players and he brought them to Denver. I just don't see BMac being bold in trades. Maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see it.

Nill and Yzerman haven't won anything yet but they appear to be bold and purposeful GMs.

 

[Atlas]

I think Lacroix, Scotty Bowman, Bill Torrey, Yzerman and Nill would all have made major trades by now if they were given the Caps GM job last summer. That doesn't prove anything but I find it curious. Maybe BMac is a hockey genius. He will have to be if the Caps are going to win a Cup.

 

[g00n]

That's a good question. I can't put another man's vision into words very easily but I think I can tell when a GM has a vision. The old Avs GM (Pierre Lacroix) had a plan. There was a logic to his moves. He was bold. He traded Owen Nolan for Ozolinsh. He traded Wendel Clark for Claude Lemieux. He traded for Patrick Roy. He traded for Theo Fleury. He traded for Rob Blake. He traded for Kasparaitis. He traded for Ray Bourque and Dale Hunter. He wanted an abrasive, highly skilled team—he targeted certain players and he brought them to Denver. I just don't see BMac being at all bold in trades. Maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see it.

Nill and Yzerman haven't won anything yet but they appear to be bold and purposeful GMs.

Many of those Avs teams were in an arms race with the Wings in one of the more brutal rivalries the NHL has seen. I don't know if that's really a vision so much as survival!

GMBM has been on the job for a few months. How many trades have there been so far this year? How many are roster trades of the kind we'd consider "vision" trades?

 

[BobRouse]

That's a good question. I can't put another man's vision into words very easily but I think I can tell when a GM has a vision. The old Avs GM (Pierre Lacroix) had a plan. There was a logic to his moves. He was bold. He traded Owen Nolan for Ozolinsh. He traded Wendel Clark for Claude Lemieux. He traded for Patrick Roy. He traded for Theo Fleury. He traded for Rob Blake. He traded for Kasparaitis. He traded for Ray Bourque and Dale Hunter. He wanted an abrasive, highly skilled team—he targeted certain players and he brought them to Denver. I just don't see BMac being bold in trades. Maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see it.

Nill and Yzerman haven't won anything yet but they appear to be bold and purposeful GMs.

And he did so in an era where there was no salary cap on a team where they didn't mind spending serious money.

Its a different era.

 

[g00n]

I think Lacroix, Scotty Bowman, Bill Torrey, Yzerman and Nill would all have made major trades by now if they were given the Caps GM job last summer. That doesn't prove anything but I find it curious. Maybe BMac is a hockey genius. He will have to be if the Caps are going to win a Cup.

I'm pretty sure Trotz has some say in the roster, and he was brought in for "vision" as much as GMBM. Maybe Trotz has mostly got the guys he wants right now? We may not see the same dynamic GMGM had with his coaches where he'd make the roster moves and the coaches would either work with what they had or fight him on it (Oates for the latter, mainly).

 

[BobRouse]

We could pry Holmgren away from the Flyers. He certainly had a vision (make as many trades and UFA signings as possible thus ensuring you cannot sign your own grown prospects thus having to trade them)

Over aggression can cost a franchise big time. The Flyers will be feeling their lack of discretion for many years now unless the NHL bails them out again.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

We could pry Holmgren away from the Flyers. He certainly had a vision (make as many trades and UFA signings as possible thus ensuring you cannot sign your own grown prospects thus having to trade them)

Over aggression can cost a franchise big time. The Flyers will be feeling their lack of discretion for many years now unless the NHL bails them out again.

Dumb moves are bad and good moves are good. Derp.

The thing that the recent winners all have in common is that they made large moves. So making big, smart moves seems to be key.

 

[txpd]

That's a good question. I can't put another man's vision into words very easily but I think I can tell when a GM has a vision. The old Avs GM (Pierre Lacroix) had a plan. There was a logic to his moves. He was bold. He traded Owen Nolan for Ozolinsh. He traded Wendel Clark for Claude Lemieux. He traded for Patrick Roy. He traded for Theo Fleury. He traded for Rob Blake. He traded for Kasparaitis. He traded for Ray Bourque and Dale Hunter. He wanted an abrasive, highly skilled team—he targeted certain players and he brought them to Denver. I just don't see BMac being bold in trades. Maybe he'll surprise me but I don't see it.

Nill and Yzerman haven't won anything yet but they appear to be bold and purposeful GMs.

I know it when I can see it and I don't see it. What is it? I cant tell you. Kind of a conversation killer.

You really cant compare a salary cap gm and a pre salary cap gm. right? Trades are a rare thing now. You see them in the offseason IF you see them at all. To conclude a gm wont make a bold trade in less than a full year on the job is a pretty small sample.

Has their been a BOLD trade this season yet?

what was the bold trade that yzerman made in his first year?

 

[txpd]

Dumb moves are bad and good moves are good. Derp.

The thing that the recent winners all have in common is that they made large moves. So making big, smart moves seems to be key.

Orpik and Niskanen were not large moves?

 

[g00n]

I think there have been 10 or so trades since the season started, maybe a few of them worth noting, and maybe half those trades were by teams making more than one move (meaning, a team is responsible for more than one of the trades I'm counting so very few teams have actually been active)

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Orpik and Niskanen were not large moves?

Did I say they weren't?

 

[txpd]

Did I say they weren't?

clarifying

 

[ChibiPooky]

I mean, MacLellan's already made four trades

 

[strungout]

He has?

 

[HunterSThompson]

He has?

Halak and draft day trades.

 

[ChibiPooky]

He has?

Halak and draft day trades.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I think Lacroix, Scotty Bowman, Bill Torrey, Yzerman and Nill would all have made major trades by now if they were given the Caps GM job last summer. That doesn't prove anything but I find it curious. Maybe BMac is a hockey genius. He will have to be if the Caps are going to win a Cup.

I'm giving Bmac time. He signed defensive upgrades and hired a great coach. For me, I wanted someone who could fix stupid with this team. So far, the Trotz hire is fixing this issue. With the competition to make playoffs with so many NHL teams, I am fine with not making bold moves. Teams are going to be paying high prices, but it would be nice to hear the Caps on some rumors. Adds to the excitement of the regular season even if no deals are made .

 

[Atlas]

I'm giving Bmac time. He signed defensive upgrades and hired a great coach. For me, I wanted someone who could fix stupid with this team. So far, the Trotz hire is fixing this issue. With the competition to make playoffs with so many NHL teams, I am fine with not making bold moves. Teams are going to be paying high prices, but it would be nice to hear the Caps on some rumors. Adds to the excitement of the regular season even if no deals are made .

I agree for the most part. There's no need to rush into trades. Especially when the team is playing well. However, bold and smart trades are a big part of building a Stanley Cup champion. BMac doesn't need to fleece other teams. He just has to improve each position gradually across time. If he trades Mojo, the player coming back has to bring a little more than what Mojo brings. The new players we bring in have to make the chemistry a little better. Orpik and Niskanen have done exactly that. I give BMac a lot of credit for those signings.

It might be that we need 4 or 5 years of great drafting, trading, development and signing UFAs to build a top team. I'm cool with that. I just want to see steady progress.

 

[Calicaps]

I agree for the most part. There's no need to rush into trades. Especially when the team is playing well. However, bold and smart trades are a big part of building a Stanley Cup champion. BMac doesn't have fleece other teams. He just has to improve each position gradually across time. If he trades Mojo, the player coming back has to bring a little more than what Mojo brings. The new players BMac brings in have to make the chemistry a little better. Orpik and Niskanen have done exactly that. I give BMac a lot of credit for those signings.

It might be that we need 4 or 5 years of great drafting, trading, development and signing UFAs to build a top team. I'm cool with that. I just want to see steady progress.

4 or 5 years!? I gotta say, this season or next, there better be a push. We should not be waiting to contend until Ovie is 35.

 

[Atlas]

4 or 5 years!? I gotta say, this season or next, there better be a push. We should not be waiting to contend until Ovie is 35.

I feel ya. But is it realistic? I don't think we have the pieces to trade right now. Of course, it looks like we will contend for a playoff spot this year and we could go on a nice run. But what steps are required to become, say, a top 4 NHL team?

 

[um]

Dumb moves are bad and good moves are good. Derp.

The thing that the recent winners all have in common is that they made large moves. So making big, smart moves seems to be key.

 

[Blades of Steel]

To be honest I don't think its far fetched that we aren't a top 6-7 team, and playing like a top 5 right now. The way trotz has this engine running we could literally beat anyone in a series. That's all it's about now, get to the dance and destroy your enemy. Our previous coaches had 1 system and made no adjustments, trotz has this team playing different identities and winning close tough games, both things we never had before. Ever.

 

[HunterSThompson]

I think the Caps have a lot of young talent that could be moved for more established players if they wanted to go that route. Assuming of course that they can also trade some salary. Yeah it may be moving Kuz or Bura, Vrana, Carrick, Bowey, the 1st, Barber, or Grubauer, but that's what all in means.