Proposal: Avs and Devils

[EdAVSfan]

The segment of Avs fans who would trade for Hall likely think the "adequate scoring" is not enough to win a cup.

In this situation, “adequate” actually means more than enough.

The Avs are one of the highest scoring teams in the league despite Landeskog and Rantanen each missing half the season so far.

 

[flyfysher]

The segment of Avs fans who would trade for Hall likely think the "adequate scoring" is not enough to win a cup.

Most of the Avs posters are very wary about acquiring Hall. I'd say less than 50% are enthusiastic about acquiring Hall with major questions about the cost, especially without an extension, and how it will affect the team's cap flexibility especially given his age and our need to resign MacKinnon and Makar.

Scoring? Meh! The team's scoring punch while Landeskog and Rantanen were out with injuries proved it already has secondary scoring ability. My team was where yours is now (I was around during the 48 point season - I learned my lesson about never having enough quality D-men). That's why you want our D-men. Sorry but you need to get your D elsewhere.

 

[Freudian]

It's likely Hall is a pure rental, where Hall goes to July 1st and see what it offered. The alternative is he is an Erik Karlsson type rental, where the team trading for him signs him to a massive (and likely crippling) contract in June.

Given this, Sakic shouldn't trade for Hall unless the cost is low enough. This means a package of picks, depth roster players and B+ type prospects.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Given Hall's availability would this work?

Devils get:
Zadorov
Unprotected conditional first depending on Hall re-signing
Sampo Ranta

Avs get:
Hall

If by conditional 1st you mean it becomes a 2nd if he doesn't re-sign, this is a potential deal I keep on the back burner if I'm Shero. It's not terrible, but I'd be surprised if there aren't better offers.

(Also, unprotected doesn't mean much from a team that's pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs.)

 

[flyfysher]

(Also, unprotected doesn't mean much from a team that's pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs.)

With the WC, this is by no means to be taken for granted even though I think they should make it. Remember, the Avs have had a lot of injuries. They are fortunate to have done well so far.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I think Avs should go after someone that fits team needs more than Hall.
Not a better player than Hall, but a better fit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not sure what was funnier in that post.

Thinking Timmins is a spare part or comparing Timmins to Juulsen as being a similar prospect.

Timmins is a tier above Newhook for me. He is absolutely that good.

1) Spare part could mean different things. Don't assume it one way only. It could be a spare part based on team strength. I did give him fringe grade A value and I think that's fair.

2) Juulsen is a similar prospect to Timmins but Timmins puts up more offense. It's not always just about offense. Look at Ghost for example. I will admit, I have not had a solid chance to give my own eye test on Timmins so to be fair, he might have more value than what I am saying.

3) Timmins is not a tier above Newhook. That's pumping Timmins's tires up based on 19 AHL games.

Take your Belittle Hero Cape and Burgandy colored glasses off for a few min's eh

 

[landeskog11]

hall for kadri 1 for 1

 

[Habs Halifax]

In this situation, “adequate” actually means more than enough.

The Avs are one of the highest scoring teams in the league despite Landeskog and Rantanen each missing half the season so far.

Adequate to me means "satisfactory or acceptable". I can see why some Avs fans and other fans from across the league would want more than Adequate. Adequate might mean a 2nd round loss in the playoffs.

Just an observation from the outside looking in. Not everybody thinks the same and Hall is not a perfect player and there is a possibility he is overpaid based on what you get for sure. I myself have that concern if the Habs trade for him with an extension.

Hall gets 7 years at $9M IMO... some team gives him this offer. Takes him to 34 too and avoids the 35+ situation on his next contract

 

[Patagonia]

If by conditional 1st you mean it becomes a 2nd if he doesn't re-sign, this is a potential deal I keep on the back burner if I'm Shero. It's not terrible, but I'd be surprised if there aren't better offers.

(Also, unprotected doesn't mean much from a team that's pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs.)

There is likely better offers than the AVs.

Surprisingly AVs have played well, nearly 1/3 out with injuries could have changed the urgency. Adding another scorer to a team still ranked among the highest scoring teams. Hall is a luxury. Offering some of their better prospects is not likely without an extension which is unlikely. He seems interested in becoming a UFA reducing the possible return and likely the AVs making this trade.

 

[Tretyak 20]

There is likely better offers than the AVs.

Surprisingly AVs have played well, nearly 1/3 out with injuries could have changed the urgency. Adding another scorer to a team still ranked among the highest scoring teams. Hall is a luxury. Offering some of their better prospects is not likely without an extension which is unlikely. He seems interested in becoming a UFA reducing the possible return and likely the AVs making this trade.

I personally don't understand the Hall to Col talk. To me as a Devils fan Carolina or Boston are better trade partners. Av's don't want to move Byram or Makar, and Devils shouldn't to willing to gamble on a kid who's missed a whole season to concussion results before he can legally buy a beer in the States. I'd be surprised if a trade between the two happens.

 

[Hasbro]

(Also, unprotected doesn't mean much from a team that's pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs.)[1]

[1]Dorion, Pierre (5 November 2017)

 

[nightonthesun]

I do not personally believe that the Avalanche would trade Zadorov at this stage. He has been really effective in fulfilling certain roles this season and there's no one who could replace him in those capacities for now.

If the Avalanche trade for Hall... I believe you say goodbye to Conor Timmins, the 2020 1st, and one of Kaut or Bowers. As long as it's possible that he walks in the summer, I think that is too high a price for a team that has been getting it done with many of its best forwards sidelined.

I hope that Devils fans don't expect a top-tier prospect or high-end roster player (such as a Byram or a Makar, as suggested above) from any team. It's not going to happen.

 

[Patagonia]

I personally don't understand the Hall to Col talk. To me as a Devils fan Carolina or Boston are better trade partners. Av's don't want to move Byram or Makar, and Devils shouldn't to willing to gamble on a kid who's missed a whole season to concussion results before he can legally buy a beer in the States. I'd be surprised if a trade between the two happens.

Maybe this was a consideration earlier in the season with Bura (unknown) or injuries. There is just less of a need for the AVs.

 

[Tretyak 20]

[1]Dorion, Pierre (5 November 2017)

Ok, so?

 

[Hasbro]

Ok, so?

Aw **** I should have said Brian Burke.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

1) Spare part could mean different things. Don't assume it one way only. It could be a spare part based on team strength. I did give him fringe grade A value and I think that's fair.

2) Juulsen is a similar prospect to Timmins but Timmins puts up more offense. It's not always just about offense. Look at Ghost for example. I will admit, I have not had a solid chance to give my own eye test on Timmins so to be fair, he might have more value than what I am saying.

3) Timmins is not a tier above Newhook. That's pumping Timmins's tires up based on 19 AHL games.

Take your Belittle Hero Cape and Burgandy colored glasses off for a few min's eh

Please, can you stop overhyping your own prospects.

Juulsen is nowhere near the player Timmins is and will be. The same goes for the rest of your comparisons.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please, can you stop overhyping your own prospects.

Juulsen is nowhere near the player Timmins is and will be. The same goes for the rest of your comparisons.

Sure, you are using a 19 game AHL sample size to prove your point. Both are fringe grade A's and I don't care about your belittle narrative. I would give the edge to Timmins but you want it to be massive. I don't see it that way.

To be honest, I already admitted to not really knowing Timmins's game that well but I'm also guessing you don't really know Juulsen as well

Keep trying to use your exaggerating skills. You can't fool me

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

In this situation, “adequate” actually means more than enough.

The Avs are one of the highest scoring teams in the league despite Landeskog and Rantanen each missing half the season so far.

The addition of Hall wouldn't be because the Avs think they only have adequate scoring, it would be with the idea in mind that your offense is so overwhelming that it can overcome other teams strengths. The idea there would be that you would have three gamebreaking forwards, any of which could break a game open at any point.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Sure, you are using a 19 game AHL sample size to prove your point. Both are fringe grade A's and I don't care about your belittle narrative. I would give the edge to Timmins but you want it to be massive. I don't see it that way.

To be honest, I already admitted to not really knowing Timmins's game that well but I'm also guessing you don't really know Juulsen as well

Keep trying to use your exaggerating skills. You can't fool me

Timmins is a two-way defensemen who is more geared towards playing it safe, smart and efficient. His skating is a bit awkward, but surprisingly effective. The Avs franchise looks at him very highly, and he likely won't be available in a trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Timmins is a two-way defensemen who is more geared towards playing it safe, smart and efficient. His skating is a bit awkward, but surprisingly effective. The Avs franchise looks at him very highly, and he likely won't be available in a trade.

I respect how you value him according to your own hope that he reaches his potential. But that does not trump the hope of another prospect reaching their potential (Juulsen). Juulsen's season last year was also derailed due to injury. I would say edge to Timmins based on the 19 game AHL sample size and the production he is putting up. But both are fringe grade A prospects or above average grade B's. Maybe it's fair to say Timmins is a fringe grade A and Juulsen is an above average grade B at this point in time. Regardless, the value gap is not massive but it could be as time moves forward. Juulsen has actually played effectively in a top 4D role before his age 21 season was derailed with an injury. He's just not the offensive type but he has a lot of tools in the tool box and was always a trusted option for his coach in shutdown roles all throughout his development.

Both can bust, both can be top 4D, or one of them can shine over the other. It's all about development years and hope they can be who you think they can be. They are not that guy for sure until they prove themselves to be in the NHL!

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I respect how you value him according to your own hope that he reaches his potential. But that does not trump the hope of another prospect reaching their potential (Juulsen). Juulsen's season last year was also derailed due to injury. I would say edge to Timmins based on the 19 game AHL sample size and the production he is putting up. But both are fringe grade A prospects or above average grade B's. Maybe it's fair to say Timmins is a fringe grade A and Juulsen is an above average grade B at this point in time. Regardless, the value gap is not massive but it could be as time moves forward. Juulsen has actually played effectively in a top 4D role before his age 21 season was derailed with an injury. He's just not the offensive type but he has a lot of tools in the tool box and was always a trusted option for his coach in shutdown roles all throughout his development.

Both can bust, both can be top 4D, or one of them can shine over the other. It's all about development years and hope they can be who you think they can be. They are not that guy for sure until they prove themselves to be in the NHL!

These aren't my hopes. I'm telling you how the Avs franchise view him as a prospect, based on their own words. Joe Sakic did an interview in the last couple of days and went out of his way to add Timmins' name as one of their upcoming Dmen. The franchise views him very highly.

 

[Habs Halifax]

These aren't my hopes. I'm telling you how the Avs franchise view him as a prospect, based on their own words. Joe Sakic did an interview in the last couple of days and went out of his way to add Timmins' name as one of their upcoming Dmen. The franchise views him very highly.

OK sure, it's the overall view on him as a prospect. But it's still hope that he can be the guy you think he can be. You trying to tell me that his 19 AHL games is already proof? That's not going to fool anybody who knows prospect development and the probability of them reaching their potential.

Nobody can predict the future man with guarantees and that's includes Sakic

 

[AfroThunder396]

These aren't my hopes. I'm telling you how the Avs franchise view him as a prospect, based on their own words. Joe Sakic did an interview in the last couple of days and went out of his way to add Timmins' name as one of their upcoming Dmen. The franchise views him very highly.

That's great, but being liked doesn't mean you're immune from being traded. Of course he's liked, if they didn't like him they wouldn't have taken him. But this is a business and you need to give to get.

If Sakic is only willing to put up spare parts then he's going to get equal quality in return.

 

[Ararana]

OK sure, it's the overall view on him as a prospect. But it's still hope that he can be the guy you think he can be. You trying to tell me that his 19 AHL games is already proof? That's not going to fool anybody who knows prospect development and the probability of them reaching their potential.

Nobody can predict the future man with guarantees and that's includes Sakic

Timmins stock was sky high after WJCs and before his concussion. I totally get people being wary because of the injury and he did miss a significant amount of time, but since then he's bounced back and has looked like he hasn't missed a beat. Even beat out NHL vets in camp to make the Avs opening night roster after not playing for so long.

I think you're underselling Timmins, I have a hard time believing NJ will get a better defensive prospect than him, especially if Hall is a pure rental.