Proposal: Avs and Devils

[hughdreamz]

Nope Byram. We need LD more.

"Hahahahahahahahahah" - Joe Sakic as he hangs up the phone.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

If a deal with Colorado gets done, I will be surprised if any of Byram/Newhook/Timmins are included.

Kaut, Bowers, Helleson, etc. Sure. Not the top 3 prospects.

Just my personal opinion after evaluating Sakic’s work up to date.

 

[JoemAvs]

If a deal with Colorado gets done, I will be surprised if any of Byram/Newhook/Timmins are included.

Kaut, Bowers, Helleson, etc. Sure. Not the top 3 prospects.

Just my personal opinion after evaluating Sakic’s work up to date.

Yeah it certainly feels more that we are the Devils Canes and Byram is their Hanifin if you want to make a comparison back to the Duchene deal even though that is not really comparable due to Halls contract situation and the fact that they really needed a #1 C while we don't need Hall all that much...

Aka the by far best trade partner for them which is why we are always mentioned while the same does not ring true vice versa. Hall is a much bigger need elsewhere. Avs already have 2 or arguably even 3 better forwards than any of Montreal, Arizona, etc.
Given his contract demands and the asking price it would be strange if we ended up the highest bidder just because we can potentially afford it.

Similar to Carolina we will probably be in it but probably be outbid at the end of the day which should be perfectly fine for us. Hopefully another team in the central overpays for him big time.

 

[pockets]

Nope Byram. We need LD more.

You’re in for some serious f***ing disappointment if you think Hall is going to get you Byram or any other prospect with similar value.

 

[hughdreamz]

I think the best comparable is Mark Stone in terms of trade if it will be a sign-and-trade or trade-and sign the same day. So it is a good prospect + roster player + 2nd.

So first, as the Avs I would bump the 2nd up to 1st and add Jost. Right there that is already better than the Linberg + 2nd pieces that Ottawa received. Then for the good prospect piece, if the Avs are not willing to move Timmins, Devils should be offer to pick 2 out this bunch: Kaut, Bowers, Helleson, Werner, Henry, Rosen. Without a 2nd and 3rd this coming draft and the need for at least a soft rebuild, a quantity of mid to mid-high tier prospects, who are at the professional level already, is quite valuable.

Now this is only if Hall re-signs with the Avs. If he has no intention of doing so, I think Hall's value lands around a 1st and a solid prospect. I.e. The Avs' 2020 1st and either Bowers or Kaut.

But hey, Shero could have better offers. I just don't think Sakic will offer more than that.

 

[Patagonia]

Nope Byram. We need LD more.

Sakic immediately advises his Assistant to respond accordingly about Byram

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah it certainly feels more that we are the Devils Canes and Byram is their Hanifin if you want to make a comparison back to the Duchene deal even though that is not really comparable due to Halls contract situation and the fact that they really needed a #1 C while we don't need Hall all that much...

Aka the by far best trade partner for them which is why we are always mentioned while the same does not ring true vice versa. Hall is a much bigger need elsewhere. Avs already have 2 or arguably even 3 better forwards than any of Montreal, Arizona, etc.
Given his contract demands and the asking price it would be strange if we ended up the highest bidder just because we can potentially afford it.

Similar to Carolina we will probably be in it but probably be outbid at the end of the day which should be perfectly fine for us. Hopefully another team in the central overpays for him big time.

Windows close much faster in the cap world and building forever isn’t really a ring anymore. TB did as much of it as they could and now they have a bunch of NTCs and their depth is going to erode. A prospect that needs another two years isn’t really helping them. In a couple of years that will be COL. They will be paying a bunch of guys or letting them go. That’s a good problem to have but I’m not so sure I’d let a division rival add Hall and knock COL out of the playoffs with the year the team is having because Timmins may be the #4 defender in two years. Bryan I get but I’m not sure a middle pairing defender is that irreplaceable if you are COL.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Nope Byram. We need LD more.

come on man. Be realistic.

 

[Spirits]

Given Hall's availability would this work?

Devils get:
Zadorov
Unprotected conditional first depending on Hall re-signing
Sampo Ranta

Avs get:
Hall

Nah, we need Z.

 

[JoemAvs]

Windows close much faster in the cap world and building forever isn’t really a ring anymore. TB did as much of it as they could and now they have a bunch of NTCs and their depth is going to erode. A prospect that needs another two years isn’t really helping them. In a couple of years that will be COL. They will be paying a bunch of guys or letting them go. That’s a good problem to have but I’m not so sure I’d let a division rival add Hall and knock COL out of the playoffs with the year the team is having because Timmins may be the #4 defender in two years. Bryan I get but I’m not sure a middle pairing defender is that irreplaceable if you are COL.

The thing is how much does adding Hall to your roster really improve your chances?

Avs probably have to go through two of Dallas/WPG/STL in their own division, against whoever comes out of the Pacific (probably one of the three already mentioned via WC or Vegas/SJ) as well as one of probably Boston/Tampa/Washington...

So I think the Avs right now have around 8-10% chance at winning a Stanley Cup looking at the betting market.
How many extra percentages do we get from adding Hall? 1%? 2%? 3%? 5%?.

No one predicted STL to win it all. SJ and WSH have tried for years to stack their rosters and did not manage to win until WSH finally won one arguably at a point in time where they did not go for the big move for once..

Tampa was the overwhelming favorite last year with probably easily the best roster and they got bounced in the first round quickly.

There is only so much you can do to guarantee a cup. The best approach is probably to give you as many (legit) runs at it as possible and that is exactly what the Avs should be doing. The Avs have atleast 4 years left before Mac needs to get paid (and he just said he will take less anyways) where we have a ton of youth coming in and where none of our key guys aside from maybe Landeskog are candidates to decline due to age. And the same issues we might face will all atleast hit our division rivals as badly if not worse given that none of them have a Newhook or Byram in their prospect pools right now (aside from maybe Dallas with Harley).

 

[Spirits]

The thing is how much does adding Hall to your roster really improve your chances?

Avs probably have to go through two of Dallas/WPG/STL in their own division, against whoever comes out of the Pacific (probably one of the three already mentioned via WC or Vegas/SJ) as well as one of probably Boston/Tampa/Washington...

So I think the Avs right now have around 8-10% chance at winning a Stanley Cup looking at the betting market.
How many extra percentages do we get from adding Hall? 1%? 2%? 3%? 5%?.

No one predicted STL to win it all. SJ and WSH have tried for years to stack their rosters and did not manage to win until WSH finally won one arguably at a point in time where they did not go for the big move for once..

Tampa was the overwhelming favorite last year with probably easily the best roster and they got bounced in the first round quickly.

There is only so much you can do to guarantee a cup. The best approach is probably to give you as many (legit) runs at it as possible and that is exactly what the Avs should be doing. The Avs have atleast 4 years left before Mac needs to get paid (and he just said he will take less anyways) where we have a ton of youth coming in and where none of our key guys aside from maybe Landeskog are candidates to decline due to age. And the same issues we might face will all atleast hit our division rivals as badly if not worse given that none of them have a Newhook or Byram in their prospect pools right now (aside from maybe Dallas with Harley).

Spot on. We don't need more scoring, we need more Defenseman. New Jersey fans are crazy to think we would give up prospects for a rental like Hall. Even if he re-signed I would rather roll my dice with what Sakic is doing. We are good enough to win a cup in 2-3 years and adding Hall isn't going to put us into a new stratosphere.

 

[flyfysher]

I don't. That's why Timmins has a certain appeal, I will admit. The thing that pushes him down is that very scary concussion, but I think that he has the actual talent to be a top tier prospect. So I think from a talent perspective, he may actually be one of the better prospects we can hope to obtain.

You're right. Timmins is a steady player. Doesn't panic. Looked a little lost at this level early on but his getting sent down was more a matter of ensuring he gets quality playing time. Not flashy but once he gets settled in then his D is impressive. Wouldn't include him in a trade for Hall though.

 

[My3Sons]

The thing is how much does adding Hall to your roster really improve your chances?

Avs probably have to go through two of Dallas/WPG/STL in their own division, against whoever comes out of the Pacific (probably one of the three already mentioned via WC or Vegas/SJ) as well as one of probably Boston/Tampa/Washington...

So I think the Avs right now have around 8-10% chance at winning a Stanley Cup looking at the betting market.
How many extra percentages do we get from adding Hall? 1%? 2%? 3%? 5%?.

No one predicted STL to win it all. SJ and WSH have tried for years to stack their rosters and did not manage to win until WSH finally won one arguably at a point in time where they did not go for the big move for once..

Tampa was the overwhelming favorite last year with probably easily the best roster and they got bounced in the first round quickly.

There is only so much you can do to guarantee a cup. The best approach is probably to give you as many (legit) runs at it as possible and that is exactly what the Avs should be doing. The Avs have atleast 4 years left before Mac needs to get paid (and he just said he will take less anyways) where we have a ton of youth coming in and where none of our key guys aside from maybe Landeskog are candidates to decline due to age. And the same issues we might face will all atleast hit our division rivals as badly if not worse given that none of them have a Newhook or Byram in their prospect pools right now (aside from maybe Dallas with Harley).

I hear you. I just think that this is one of those years when everything is going right which doesn’t happen often. This to me seems like a year to try to win a cup if you are COL.

 

[JoemAvs]

I hear you. I just think that this is one of those years when everything is going right which doesn’t happen often. This to me seems like a year to try to win a cup if you are COL.

I mean given that this has been the worst season I can remember when it comes to injuries (we are icing on average 3-4 AHLers, have had to start 4 different goalies, just got word that now Kadri is out injured when finally a few of our forwards return, etc..), it certainly does not feel like everything is going right.

That they have been able to overcome that just shows IMO how impressive the young group is that Joe has assembled over the last few years and how much fun we can potentially have with them if we play this right and have a bit of luck. I'd at least try to give that group a chance at a serious cup run before I would make any crazy changes (like giving up a lot for Hall and then having to rebuild our whole roster around his gigantic contract potentially).

Are you sure its not your Devils fandom impairing your judgment ( because we are on paper probably the best trading partner? )

Realistically St. Louis is at their absolute peak right now. Same for Dallas and to a lesser extent Winnipeg. Chicago and Minnesota are probably not leapfrogging us anytime soon with the albatross contracts on their roster. The Avs are by far the youngest team in our division right now with the best prospect pool. I really don't think this is the time to go all-in.

That does not mean that Sakic won't try to trade for Hall. It just means IMO that he will only pay so much which probably won't be enough to get it done.

 

[My3Sons]

I mean given that this has been the worst season I can remember when it comes to injuries (we are icing on average 3-4 AHLers, have had to start 4 different goalies, just got word that now Kadri is out injured when finally a few of our forwards return, etc..), it certainly does not feel like everything is going right.

That they have been able to overcome that just shows IMO how impressive the young group is that Joe has assembled over the last few years and how much fun we can potentially have with them if we play this right and have a bit of luck. I'd at least try to give that group a chance at a serious cup run before I would make any crazy changes (like giving up a lot for Hall and then having to rebuild our whole roster around his gigantic contract potentially).

Are you sure its not your Devils fandom impairing your judgment ( because we are on paper probably the best trading partner? )

Realistically St. Louis is at their absolute peak right now. Same for Dallas and to a lesser extent Winnipeg. Chicago and Minnesota are probably not leapfrogging us anytime soon with the albatross contracts on their roster. The Avs are by far the youngest team in our division right now with the best prospect pool. I really don't think this is the time to go all-in.

That does not mean that Sakic won't try to trade for Hall. It just means IMO that he will only pay so much which probably won't be enough to get it done.

COL injured players are coming back and the team hasn’t really missed a beat. This interval allowed depth players to step up and they did.

I agree STL should go for it as should WAS and BOS and PIT. My thought is BOS would actually be a better trading partner than COL because I don’t see Hall going as anything but a rental. I don’t think he signs with anyone since reports are that Ferris wants him to hit the market.

I don’t follow other teams enough to really know the details on any prospects or depth players. I also don’t really care that much since no team will move more than a first and a prospect short of someone going nuts. With or without Timmins or Vaakinainen or Zboril or whoever NJ is a worse team without Hall for the foreseeable future. That’s fine since they weren’t going to win anything with Hall being in his prime but the return is less than predictable. The best offer may be one we never hear about when it’s all said and done.

I’m a realist. I just want it over so NJ can move forward and start life after Hall. The season is almost certainly over so start planning for next year and develop the young guys. I like. COL and WPG and to a lesser extent DAL. They are smart teams that built rosters correctly. I just don’t see a guy like Timmins setting COL back in the scheme of things. In two years that Russian defender may even eclipse him. It’s hard to say.