GDT: Avoid the Hangover: Golden Knights @ Your New Jersey Devils, 5 PM, MSG+

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Jets012

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Schneider had a hot start and looked like he was back. However his last 9-10 games have been awful and are regressing his stats back to average. We aren't paying him to be an average or so goaltender this year. We all certainly are expecting more after he was bad last year considering how much he's getting paid.
 

billingtons ghost

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I was his biggest defender back in 2014 and said he should be starting over Marty. @billingtons ghost

You already told me he was overrated.

It's just very possible that the guy isn't good anymore.

This is absolutely true - Bleed has been one of those that has been solidly behind Cory and I had plenty of arguments with him on the topic. I don't think either goalie ever made it to full whipping boy status (as badly as Kink was curbstomped in past weeks) but at no point was Bleed on Marty's bandwagon.

I've been quiet on the topic of Cory recently (except for a post saying how bad this place was going to get when Cory comes back from injury and struggles) and I think his current struggles are a bit overstated. He hasn't been very good but he hasn't been as bad as he's being made out to be...

I'm also not a real great proponent of using SV% to back the argument.

I think we're just seeing a case where the defense in front of him is worse than it has ever been about clearing the crease of rebounds - and in order for him to succeed with his lack of rebound control, he really needs those pucks to be swept out of the crease after the first save.

It's possible that with at least a couple reasonably good defensemen, he'd be at 2.00GAA and .930 SV% right now and we'd just be talking about the inability of anyone not named Hall to put the puck in the net.
 

haak84

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Oct 18, 2017
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I think we're just seeing a case where the defense in front of him is worse than it has ever been about clearing the crease of rebounds - and in order for him to succeed with his lack of rebound control, he really needs those pucks to be swept out of the crease after the first save.

It's possible that with at least a couple reasonably good defensemen, he'd be at 2.00GAA and .930 SV% right now and we'd just be talking about the inability of anyone not named Hall to put the puck in the net.

i dont think the defense has even been that bad. theres only been a few games where weve been outdefended and created nothing. i think teams have been much better at neutralizing our game when they have the lead. especially as the season has gone on. the problem is the soft or lucky goals that lead to that defecit. any team with a half decent defense will just clamp down, ice the puck and secure the lead.

which is why a team like this needs timely goaltending just as much as it needs rate consistent goaltending. i think schneider plays such a consistent butterfly style that in game factors have little impact on his save ability. i think marty was a much better in game goalie than rate stat goalie. of course hockey has as much chance in it than most other games but i do believe there is something to in game competition that rate statistics ignores.

and i dont think kinkaid is better at either than cory but at this point i dont think hes much worse. he seems to have the hot hand and at least puts effort into his tweets.
 

billingtons ghost

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i dont think the defense has even been that bad. theres only been a few games where weve been outdefended and created nothing. i think teams have been much better at neutralizing our game when they have the lead. especially as the season has gone on. the problem is the soft or lucky goals that lead to that defecit. any team with a half decent defense will just clamp down, ice the puck and secure the lead.

which is why a team like this needs timely goaltending just as much as it needs rate consistent goaltending. i think schneider plays such a consistent butterfly style that in game factors have little impact on his save ability. i think marty was a much better in game goalie than rate stat goalie. of course hockey has as much chance in it than most other games but i do believe there is something to in game competition that rate statistics ignores.

and i dont think kinkaid is better at either than cory but at this point i dont think hes much worse. he seems to have the hot hand and at least puts effort into his tweets.

I'll say this: your entire second paragraph could have come right out of my mouth.

The problem, in a nutshell, is 'inconsistency'. When the defense hasn't been terrible, the goalies have been soft. This whole vicious cycle began with a month of terrible defensive breakdowns that destroyed both goalies' confidence to the point where they got off of their game. It should be obvious to any observer that if both of your goaltenders injure their groin going post to post within a week's time - your defense isn't exactly cutting cross-ice passes....

As much as I've hated the Cory fanboy club for 4 years now, if I'm Hynes, I ride Cory the next X games just so he gets his game back - I also put Santini and Mueller back in the lineup to get some reliable physicality in the crease area to prop up his game. I think he can still be a borderline elite goalie if he doesn't have wildcards like Vats and Moore and Severson and Butcher of for every shift, and a complete nightmare in Lovejoy and a fading Andy Greene on for the others.

I can't believe people point to stats as an argument against these guys, when it should be absolutely apparent that Vats, Moore and Severson absolutely thrive in reduced roles where they aren't forced to be #1 defensemen, and that we don't lose anything by putting the stronger, more physical and simply BETTER defensemen in to play defense.

I get it that everyone likes to be run and gun and 'let's have nothing but offensive-minded guys on defense' - but they don't get the value of building off of a stable base.

Simply put: Our team was at its best early in the year when:
- the forwards were fast, relentless, and hungry
- Moore, Vats and Sevs could play offensively without having to log too many minutes in their own zone in shutdown roles.
- goalies faced many shots, but they were mostly of the low-danger variety.

Now, or forward corps has some boat anchors, and the defense looks great when it has the puck and becomes a turnover-circus act on occasions, and the goalies have absolutely lost their edge.
 

billingtons ghost

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Because he isn’t any good.

C'mon. I think 'he isn't VERY good' might be closer - he's a backup.

It's really do-or-die, though. Although I'll agree with some of the other guys that I actually have more confidence in Kink than Cory going into the next few games - we really need to just play Cory until he gets his game back or doesn't.

This place will be a horror show if he doesn't, but I have a feeling that if he gets the minutes and we get a bounce or two and a big win - things will lighten up a bit.
 

Devils Dominion

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Yep, 3 main anchors sinking the ship.

Staff, Boyle and of course LJ.

But we are getting out goaltended a lot too and can't score of late.

I'd prefer Lappin over Staff.

Of course Santini over LJ and give Mueller some time too.
 

Cult of Hynes

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I'll say this: your entire second paragraph could have come right out of my mouth.

The problem, in a nutshell, is 'inconsistency'. When the defense hasn't been terrible, the goalies have been soft. This whole vicious cycle began with a month of terrible defensive breakdowns that destroyed both goalies' confidence to the point where they got off of their game. It should be obvious to any observer that if both of your goaltenders injure their groin going post to post within a week's time - your defense isn't exactly cutting cross-ice passes....

As much as I've hated the Cory fanboy club for 4 years now, if I'm Hynes, I ride Cory the next X games just so he gets his game back - I also put Santini and Mueller back in the lineup to get some reliable physicality in the crease area to prop up his game. I think he can still be a borderline elite goalie if he doesn't have wildcards like Vats and Moore and Severson and Butcher of for every shift, and a complete nightmare in Lovejoy and a fading Andy Greene on for the others.

I can't believe people point to stats as an argument against these guys, when it should be absolutely apparent that Vats, Moore and Severson absolutely thrive in reduced roles where they aren't forced to be #1 defensemen, and that we don't lose anything by putting the stronger, more physical and simply BETTER defensemen in to play defense.

I get it that everyone likes to be run and gun and 'let's have nothing but offensive-minded guys on defense' - but they don't get the value of building off of a stable base.

Simply put: Our team was at its best early in the year when:
- the forwards were fast, relentless, and hungry
- Moore, Vats and Sevs could play offensively without having to log too many minutes in their own zone in shutdown roles.
- goalies faced many shots, but they were mostly of the low-danger variety.

Now, or forward corps has some boat anchors, and the defense looks great when it has the puck and becomes a turnover-circus act on occasions, and the goalies have absolutely lost their edge.

Dumbest idea possible. they tried that bullshit last near and they went on like a 7 game losing streak and never recovered.

You need to play the goalie that is has been playing well his past few starts, and that is Kinkaid. The goal is the playoffs, and ginger sieve isn't playing well enough to do that, and he's looked shaky even when he has won back in Dec.
 

Cage Helmet

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Was in the air for most of this one, but that third goal can’t go in. VGK goal #2 is saveable, but you can live with it. Watching the highlights while not knowing anything beyond the final score I just knew that was the third goal, as soon as I saw the blatant signs of him being handcuffed by it. Outside of the 80 year old Brodeur/Hedberg dino unit, I can’t recall any other time in my Devils fandom that I had little confidence in any tender on the roster. That’s going back to 93-94. We’ve had plenty of bad puckstoppers on the team since then, especially as backups, but always had either the GOAT fronting a random poor understudy, or an elite level Schneider. Even Keith looked good last year.

I bet the man himself had some poor stretches like this in his prime. Before Ftorek and Julien were canned come to mind, but I dunno, man. I’m not feeling Cory right now. Kinkaid is certainly hotter right now, but he’s certainly not better, either. Keith was close to losing his gig a couple weeks ago, if not for Lack looking like Chico Resch or an old man in an alumni outing.
 

Bleedred

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Yep, 3 main anchors sinking the ship.

Staff, Boyle and of course LJ.

But we are getting out goaltended a lot too and can't score of late.

I'd prefer Lappin over Staff.

Of course Santini over LJ and give Mueller some time too.
Hell no to Lappin. He floated around like Ponikarovsky did in 2013, daydreaming about his KHL contract for the next season, the last time he was called up.

It's not like we have to play Stafford, he was only in because Bratt was scratched, so it's not like we have to be playing him or otherwise make a call up to replace him.

I think Santini is fine playing in the A for the rest of the year. If we call him up, he'll be sitting half the time for LJ or to be in a rotation with Mueller.

LJ should probably be sitting though. It's not even that he's been that bad, but I just don't understand why he was sitting for the better part of 2+ months, now he's an untouchable.
 

MadDevil

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Lovejoy plays because they don't want to move anybody from the left side to the right side, and they like him on the PK. Until one of those two things changes he's probably not going anywhere.
 

billingtons ghost

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Was in the air for most of this one, but that third goal can’t go in. VGK goal #2 is saveable, but you can live with it. Watching the highlights while not knowing anything beyond the final score I just knew that was the third goal, as soon as I saw the blatant signs of him being handcuffed by it. Outside of the 80 year old Brodeur/Hedberg dino unit, I can’t recall any other time in my Devils fandom that I had little confidence in any tender on the roster. That’s going back to 93-94. We’ve had plenty of bad puckstoppers on the team since then, especially as backups, but always had either the GOAT fronting a random poor understudy, or an elite level Schneider. Even Keith looked good last year.

I bet the man himself had some poor stretches like this in his prime. Before Ftorek and Julien were canned come to mind, but I dunno, man. I’m not feeling Cory right now. Kinkaid is certainly hotter right now, but he’s certainly not better, either. Keith was close to losing his gig a couple weeks ago, if not for Lack looking like Chico Resch or an old man in an alumni outing.


I think I can say, as well as my memory serves, that there was NEVER a stretch in 20 years where Martin Brodeur struggled for more than two or three games at a clip. He just was immune to getting in a slump. He had bad games, and even bad playoff series... and when i say 'bad', I mean, he let in like 2 bad goals and just wasn't perfectly scintillating the entire time. Of course his level of play as a 40 year old might not measure up... so I'll ignore his last couple of years...

It should say something that the first one that jumps to mind is the Stanley Cup Finals, where he misplayed the puck against the Ducks...

during the course of pitching three shutouts and getting robbed of the Conn Smythe.
 

Emperoreddy

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C'mon. I think 'he isn't VERY good' might be closer - he's a backup.

It's really do-or-die, though. Although I'll agree with some of the other guys that I actually have more confidence in Kink than Cory going into the next few games - we really need to just play Cory until he gets his game back or doesn't.

This place will be a horror show if he doesn't, but I have a feeling that if he gets the minutes and we get a bounce or two and a big win - things will lighten up a bit.

He needs a win to get his confidence back.
 

Cult of Hynes

Hynes is never wrong.
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This staff is so clueless. They over used dead weight aging corpses entirely way too much. No wonder the offense dries up when youre putting out Boyle and Zajac every other shift for an "important" face off that they wind up losing any way or turning the puck over right away after they win it and get hold of the puck themselves.

Then you put Lovejoy and Greene together when down a goal because they will totally generate offense even though they make Zajac look like he has the hands of Pavel Datsyuk.

Two of the weakest shots in the league, two of the worst passers from the back end, and two of the worst dmen when it comes to handling the puck on the same d pairing when we are down a goal lol. Makes zero sense.
 
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Cult of Hynes

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He needs a win to get his confidence back.

And if he keeps shitting the bed like he has been and costs us a playoff spot what then? Oh it's okay Cory, come back and be our starter and do it all over again for a 3rd season in a row.

Mentally weak. Keep him out of net and try to get the team a couple of wins with Kinkaid since he has actually won since Dec 27, and then help Schneider with his fragile confidence.
 

Emperoreddy

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And if he keeps ****ting the bed like he has been and costs us a playoff spot what then? Oh it's okay Cory, come back and be our starter and do it all over again for a 3rd season in a row.

Mentally weak. Keep him out of here and let the team get a couple of wins and then help him with his fragile confidence.

Like how we let Keith play through his troubles instead of running Lack out there multiple games?

More outlandish rubbish
 

Cult of Hynes

Hynes is never wrong.
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Like how we let Keith play through his troubles instead of running Lack out there multiple games?


So lets just play Schneider through his pathetic little losing streak like we did last year, where he helped us crash and burn into a 7 game losing streak and then right out of the playoffs yea?
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
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Lol, Greene is on par with Lovejoy, but he's one of the best options on the left side eh?

Because Moore is so much better.

Do you think before you post?

So lets just play Schneider through his pathetic little losing streak like we did last year, where he helped us crash and burn into a 7 game losing streak and then right out of the playoffs yea?

Because that is what will happen. Just more word vomit that you pollute the board with after every lose.

Lovejoy is more likely to score a hat trick then you to post an accurate level headed take.
 

MadDevil

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This staff is so clueless. They over used dead weight aging corpses entirely way too much. No wonder the offense dries up when youre putting out Boyle and Zajac every other shift for an "important" face off that they wind up losing any way or turning the puck over right away after they win it and get hold of the puck themselves.

Then you put Lovejoy and Greene together when down a goal because they will totally generate offense even though they make Zajac look like he has the hands of Pavel Datsyuk.

Two of the weakest shots in the league, two of the worst passers from the back end, and two of the worst dmen when it comes to handling the puck on the same d pairing when we are down a goal lol. Makes zero sense.

Do you ever think before posting whatever nonsense comes to mind? Boyle played under 11 minutes, so "every other" faceoff is factually incorrect, if you actually cared about facts. Lovejoy and Greene played exactly two shifts the final 5 minutes of the game, and in fact Butcher and Vatanen, our two best offensive defensemen, played the final 1:43.

I get that critical thinking isn't exactly your thing, but could you at least try to not post hyperbolic bullshit that brings absolutely nothing to any conversation?
 
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bobilly45

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Schneider had a hot start and looked like he was back. However his last 9-10 games have been awful and are regressing his stats back to average. We aren't paying him to be an average or so goaltender this year. We all certainly are expecting more after he was bad last year considering how much he's getting paid.

He was always average, and will always be average... he got the Chris terarie fired bc of his lousy play and brought in his goalie coach..... which of anything is making him worse
 

Cult of Hynes

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Because Moore is so much better.

Do you think before you post?



Because that is what will happen. Just more word vomit that you pollute the board with after every lose.

Lovejoy is more likely to score a hat trick then you to post an accurate level headed take.

Ironic coming from someone that thinks Andy Greene is the best option on the left and that makes every excuse under the sun for Schneider's horrible play.
 
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