GDT: Avalanche vs Flyers 1/20/24 @ 11:00AM MNT

[Bowe Byrum]

Remember when Forsberg and Hejduk stole his Art Ross and Rocket? God that was amazing

I do and it was lol

 

[Pokecheque]

I'd put Edler there... played nearly a 1000 games there, was a long-term #1D for them and took them to the finals. Hughes would easily eclipse if Vancouver went on a run in the next few years.

Edler was not their best defenseman in that stellar 2011 run--Dan Hamhuis was. Played absolutely INSANE for them that season. When he went down, the Canucks went down with him. When he came back he just wasn't the same player and the Canucks were never able to come even close to what they were that season.

 

[henchman21]

Edler was not their best defenseman in that stellar 2011 run--Dan Hamhuis was. Played absolutely INSANE for them that season. When he went down, the Canucks went down with him. When he came back he just wasn't the same player and the Canucks were never able to come even close to what they were that season.

Different players can play or down in levels on runs. Pepe was honestly never a first line guy with any consistency... but get him in the playoffs and he was elite. Edler was their #1D from ~08-19. He played in all situations and most minutes consistently. In a low scoring era he was a pretty consistent half point a game guy. He was also a physical player. Hughes peak is certainly higher and odds are will be better... but as a career... a decade as a #1D and being a part of a teams peak years, it means quite a bit.

IMO all Hughes needs to have is the team having some sustained success. Win a Cup and he certainly passes. Make a run to the finals and have 3-4 other decent runs... and he's there. Wins a Norris and he's there. He's on the precipice of it, but not quite there.

 

[GeoRox89]

Edler was not their best defenseman in that stellar 2011 run--Dan Hamhuis was. Played absolutely INSANE for them that season. When he went down, the Canucks went down with him. When he came back he just wasn't the same player and the Canucks were never able to come even close to what they were that season.

Ehrhoff leaving for Buffalo was a HUGE part of them never being the same again. He was a huge part of that power play and he and the Sedins had a symbiotic thing going on bringing out the best in each other. It’s not a coincidence their Art Ross years where when he was there

Hamhuis-Bieksa would’ve been a pairing for team Canada the way they played that year though. Given all they got out of him was a relatively useless Kassian, they really should I’ve made the Hodgson for Hamhuis deal at the 09-10 deadline. Might’ve actually given Chicago a run for their money in the series that year if they had

Edit: You seem to be underrating the effect Kesler having no hip and becoming ineffective and Samuelsson (their only guy with Cup winning experience) being out in the Finals had too

 

[Pokecheque]

Ehrhoff leaving for Buffalo was a HUGE part of them never being the same again. He was a huge part of that power play and he and the Sedins had a symbiotic thing going on bringing out the best in each other. It’s not a coincidence their Art Ross years where when he was there

Hamhuis-Bieksa would’ve been a pairing for team Canada the way they played that year though. Given all they got out of him was a relatively useless Kassian, they really should I’ve made the Hodgson for Hamhuis deal at the 09-10 deadline. Might’ve actually given Chicago a run for their money in the series that year if they had

Edit: You seem to be underrating the effect Kesler having no hip and becoming ineffective and Samuelsson (their only guy with Cup winning experience) being out in the Finals had too

Well also, Manny Malhotra was an absolutely inspired pickup for them, Gillis went against the grain and when everyone thought they should get players to play ABOVE Kesler and the Sedins, he went and got an elite defensive center and that freed up Kesler and the Sedins to produce more offense. And by golly, it worked. One of many reasons why I hope someday Gillis finds his way back into the league. He's done a lot of studying since then and seems eager to try new ideas. IMO he was hamstrung by the idiotic owner at the time and was forced to keep a quickly-sinking ship afloat. Anyway, when Malhotra had that horrific eye injury, that was the beginning of the end IMO.

But yes you're right there were a lot of underlying circumstances at play, but losing Hamhuis was a gigantic factor nonethless.

Lesson learned by both him and P.K. Subban--don't try to line up Milan Lucic for a big open-ice hit.

 

[GeoRox89]

Well also, Manny Malhotra was an absolutely inspired pickup for them, Gillis went against the grain and when everyone thought they should get players to play ABOVE Kesler and the Sedins, he went and got an elite defensive center and that freed up Kesler and the Sedins to produce more offense. And by golly, it worked. One of many reasons why I hope someday Gillis finds his way back into the league. He's done a lot of studying since then and seems eager to try new ideas. IMO he was hamstrung by the idiotic owner at the time and was forced to keep a quickly-sinking ship afloat. Anyway, when Malhotra had that horrific eye injury, that was the beginning of the end IMO.

But yes you're right there were a lot of underlying circumstances at play, but losing Hamhuis was a gigantic factor nonethless.

Lesson learned by both him and P.K. Subban--don't try to line up Milan Lucic for a big open-ice hit.

Yea I didn’t include Malhotra because he went down way earlier and they’d played most of the run without him anyways. Gillis did a hell of a job but doesn’t fit in with the old boys club so seems to have been blackballed.

Aqua man has always been a joke of an owner. Got himself sued for child abuse too so that’s neat

 

[Foppa2118]

Remember when Forsberg and Hejduk stole his Art Ross and Rocket? God that was amazing

I'm convinced the players gave Naslund the Lindsay award, because they hated playing against Forsberg. Pete should have won that too.

More points in less games and a physical presence that could change games all on it's own. Naslund had 9 more goals, but he was never as dominant.

 

[Bowe Byrum]

I'm convinced the players gave Naslund the Lindsay award, because they hated playing against Forsberg. Pete should have won that too.

More points in less games and a physical presence that could change games all on it's own. Naslund had 9 more goals, but he was never as dominant.

He was awesome that year , hate to say it, if you remember you remember

He won the Pearson which is the players vote right ?

 

[Foppa2118]

He was awesome that year , hate to say it, if you remember you remember

He won the Pearson which is the players vote right ?

Yeah used to be the Lester Pearson, now it's the Ted Lindsay. Elite Prospect incorrectly listed it as the Lindsay but you're right.

 

[Pokecheque]

Interesting that they renamed the Lester Pearson (which is fine, but Lester Pearson based on what I've read was a pretty outstanding person and political leader) but have not bothered renaming the other trophies, and really they should because Conn Smythe, Jack Adams, etc. were kinda dickholes.

By the same token it would feel really weird seeing the playoff MVP handed out and not calling it the Conn Smythe.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Interesting that they renamed the Lester Pearson (which is fine, but Lester Pearson based on what I've read was a pretty outstanding person and political leader) but have not bothered renaming the other trophies, and really they should because Conn Smythe, Jack Adams, etc. were kinda dickholes.

By the same token it would feel really weird seeing the playoff MVP handed out and not calling it the Conn Smythe.

They really should do a name refresh on them all....

Art Ross - Wayne Gretzky
Bill Masterton - ?????
Conn Smyth - Nathaniel MacKinnon, first of his name. I don't know, nobody's won it 3 times while Crosby, Gretzky, M Lemiuex, Orr, Parent and Roy all won it twice.
Selke - It might be too soon, but I would have no problems calling this the Patrice Bergeron award.
Hart - Looks like we're getting a second Wayne Gretzky trophy.
Jack Adams - Mike Babcock, obviously. Coaches are hard because so many of them until semi-recently used the old-school bag of coaches tricks which people frown upon today. Not sure who you would really name this after from the modern era. Scotty Bowman was a world class jackass.
James Norris - Nicklas Lidstrom
Lester Patrick - How about Willie O' Ree. I know he's Canadien and the award is for "outsanding service to hockey in the United States" but he's always done that and was actually was awarded the Patrick trophy in 2003.

 

[Foppa2118]

They really should do a name refresh on them all....

Art Ross - Wayne Gretzky
Bill Masterton - ?????
Conn Smyth - Nathaniel MacKinnon, first of his name. I don't know, nobody's won it 3 times while Crosby, Gretzky, M Lemiuex, Orr, Parent and Roy all won it twice.
Selke - It might be too soon, but I would have no problems calling this the Patrice Bergeron award.
Hart - Looks like we're getting a second Wayne Gretzky trophy.
Jack Adams - Mike Babcock, obviously. Coaches are hard because so many of them until semi-recently used the old-school bag of coaches tricks which people frown upon today. Not sure who you would really name this after from the modern era. Scotty Bowman was a world class jackass.
James Norris - Nicklas Lidstrom
Lester Patrick - How about Willie O' Ree. I know he's Canadien and the award is for "outsanding service to hockey in the United States" but he's always done that and was actually was awarded the Patrick trophy in 2003.

Smythe has to be Roy if we're renaming it. He's the only player to win it three times and the only one to win it with two different teams.

Norris should be the Bobby Orr. Then they can rename it the Cale Makar in 30 years.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Smythe has to be Roy if we're renaming it. He's the only player to win it three times and the only one to win it with two different teams.

Norris should be the Bobby Orr. Then they can rename it the Cale Makar in 30 years.

I'm cool with both of those.

I would eventually like to see an award made for actual defense provided by a defensemen. Obviously, there are some dmen that could challenge for both, but I feel a little part of me die every time a one dimensional, piss poor defender like Karlsson wins the Norris.

 

[Pokecheque]

They really should do a name refresh on them all....

Art Ross - Wayne Gretzky
Bill Masterton - ?????
Conn Smyth - Nathaniel MacKinnon, first of his name. I don't know, nobody's won it 3 times while Crosby, Gretzky, M Lemiuex, Orr, Parent and Roy all won it twice.
Selke - It might be too soon, but I would have no problems calling this the Patrice Bergeron award.
Hart - Looks like we're getting a second Wayne Gretzky trophy.
Jack Adams - Mike Babcock, obviously. Coaches are hard because so many of them until semi-recently used the old-school bag of coaches tricks which people frown upon today. Not sure who you would really name this after from the modern era. Scotty Bowman was a world class jackass.
James Norris - Nicklas Lidstrom
Lester Patrick - How about Willie O' Ree. I know he's Canadien and the award is for "outsanding service to hockey in the United States" but he's always done that and was actually was awarded the Patrick trophy in 2003.

Well you’re not gonna rename the Masterton, there’s good reason it bears that name. I just wish the voting criteria would change, much like the Adams.

Norris should be the Bobby Orr if anything. Lidstrom was one of the best ever, Orr was THE best ever, full stop.

As for Conn Smythe, if yer gonna rename it after a guy who won it a lot, why not name it the Patrick Roy trophy?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Well you’re not gonna rename the Masterton, there’s good reason it bears that name. I just wish the voting criteria would change, much like the Adams.

Norris should be the Bobby Orr if anything. Lidstrom was one of the best ever, Orr was THE best ever, full stop.

As for Conn Smythe, if yer gonna rename it after a guy who won it a lot, why not name it the Patrick Roy trophy?

I have no idea why I keep forgetting Roy won it both times in Montreal. I always remember 93 and 01. I don't think I had really gotten into hockey by 86 though, so I know I have no personal memory of him winning like I do with the other two.