GDT: Avalanche vs Flyers 1/20/24 @ 11:00AM MNT

[Foppa2118]

Another great game from the "3rd line." Wood is a really underrated passer. Seen glimpses of it this season, but he really had the touch going in this one.

Great to see LOC get a hat trick. Usually he starts off seasons hot and then the goals stop, but so far this year they haven't. Said he worked on his shot a lot this year.

If he keeps playing like this, he shouldn't be called a 4th liner either. Avs should look to extend hm long term in the off season.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Another great game from the "3rd line." Wood is a really underrated passer. Seen glimpses of it this season, but he really had the touch going in this one.

Great to see LOC get a hat trick. Usually he starts off seasons hot and then the goals stop, but so far this year they haven't. Said he worked on his shot a lot this year.

If he keeps playing like this, he shouldn't be called a 4th liner either. Avs should look to extend hm long term in the off season.

Looks like he has worked on his stamina also. Seems like he can keep his motor going for longer period of time. Or maybe he just learned to pace himself better. I still think he can't sustain his style of play as a 2nd liner. That whole line needs to go back to being a 3rd line by mid-Feb IMO before they run out of gas.

 

[Foppa2118]

Looks like he has worked on his stamina also. Seems like he can keep his motor going for longer period of time. Or maybe he just learned to pace himself better. I still think he can't sustain his style of play as a 2nd liner. That whole line needs to go back to being a 3rd line by mid-Feb IMO before they run out of gas.

If the Avs bring in a 2C and Val and Lehky come back, that line instantly becomes one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL. Maybe the best.

I still think it has a case for best 3rd line in Avs history too.

LOC's playing so well it lets them work Kovalenko onto the team in a 4th line role to start too. A healthy Avs roster going into the playoffs has about as much depth as you could hope for.

Drouin - MacK - Mikko
Lehky - 2C - Nuke
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogs - Olof - Kovalenko

Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
Girard - JJ

Extras: Malinski, Jones, Kiviranta, Tufte, Pavel, Meyers, Landy (?)

I mean where does Landy even play if he comes back? Does Cogs bump Olofsson and play center?

Does Landy bump Kovalenko off the 4th line? Maybe that's why I've heard Kovalenko's name mentioned in deadline rumors recently. He probably wants a roster spot if he comes over.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

If the Avs bring in a 2C and Val and Lehky come back, that line instantly becomes one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL. Maybe the best.

I still think it has a case for best 3rd line in Avs history too.

LOC's playing so well it lets them work Kovalenko onto the team in a 4th line role to start too. A healthy Avs roster going into the playoffs has about as much depth as you could hope for.

Drouin - MacK - Mikko
Lehky - 2C - Nuke
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogs - Olof - Kovalenko

Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
Girard - JJ

Extras: Malinski, Jones, Kiviranta, Tufte, Pavel, Meyers, Landy (?)

I mean where does Landy even play if he comes back? Does Cogs bump Olofsson and play center?

Does Landy bump Kovalenko off the 4th line? Maybe that's why I've heard Kovalenko's name mentioned in deadline rumors recently. He probably wants a roster spot if he comes over.

The "Roaring 20s" have impressed the hell out of me this season. They've all been asked to play more than I think anyone expected or wanted them too. Other than the players...I'm sure those boys want MOAR!! But that's not necessarily what's best for the team.

As for Landy, I hope that the Avs don't plan on him. Just allow Landy to slot in whenever his ability allows him if healthy and then bump folks down a slot increasing depth.

Kovalenko, though, has some work cut out for him. He'll get games in the regular season no doubt, but he's got to earn Bednar's trust to make the lineup in the playoffs and that's not necessarily a given. I like his chances, but I am cautious/nervous about the KHL to NHL transition. I hadn't heard of any rumors or hesitation on his part to come over after the Gagarin Cup (is that what they are called? or is it just the "KHL Playoffs"?) Anyways, I'd be interested in reading anything about what's going on there if anything.

Unfortunately, barring a GM believing they can use him next year, I think RyJo will be our 4C in the playoffs. Landy-RyJo-Cogs with Landy getting extra minutes on special teams or just due to the Bednar blender being in effect at times in games would be the worst case scenario if Landy is healthy. This would suck for Olof, but with as little as the 4th line gets played I think Bednar would still want RyJo somewhere in order to take situational faceoffs.

 

[Foppa2118]

If you make a list of the most important players to this team right now it would look like this:

1- Mack
2- Makar
3- Rants
4- Toews
5- Nuke
6- Colton
7- Lehky
8- Drouin
9- Girard
10- Byram

This isn't meant to rip on Girard, but rather just an FYI.

Unlike Byram who regularly plays in the final minute, Bednar didn't put Girard on the ice for the final 4 minutes of this game while protecting a lead. Leafs win he didn't play in the final 2 minutes.

That's a pretty important role.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

This isn't meant to rip on Girard, but rather just an FYI.

Unlike Byram who regularly plays in the final minute, Bednar didn't put Girard on the ice for the final 4 minutes of this game while protecting a lead. Leafs win he didn't play in the final 2 minutes.

That's a pretty important role.

Really the only thing I would argue is Nuke's position. In my personal opinion, he's number 3. His defense and PK elevates him beyond Rants PP production (as ungodly as this may be). I just feel Nuke's defense + offense combined = more impact on the Avs chances for victory than Rants pure offense alone. I have a feeling I am probably in a minority of one on that opinion, but it is what it is.

The funny thing about lists like this though. You can take two higher guys (Toews and Drouin or Rants and Lehky) out of the lineup at the same time and it sucks but the Avs soldier on. You take Byram and Girard out at the same time and things get fugly quicker.

 

[Foppa2118]

Really the only thing I would argue is Nuke's position. In my personal opinion, he's number 3. His defense and PK elevates him beyond Rants PP production (as ungodly as this may be). I just feel Nuke's defense + offense combined = more impact on the Avs chances for victory than Rants pure offense alone. I have a feeling I am probably in a minority of one on that opinion, but it is what it is.

The funny thing about lists like this though. You can take two higher guys (Toews and Drouin or Rants and Lehky) out of the lineup at the same time and it sucks but the Avs soldier on. You take Byram and Girard out at the same time and things get fugly quicker.

The best way to evaluate importance to a team is by role, and the most objective way to do that is based on ice time, and situations they're used during games.

I'm a broken record on this, because it's meaningful, but Byram gets paired with Makar halfway through games, whether they're down a goal or not, but especially when they're down, and him and Manson close out almost every final minute of periods and games when they need to protect a lead. This is an important role.

Girard rarely gets paired with Makar, even when they need goals, and as mentioned he didn't play the final 2 minutes of the Leafs win, or the final 4 minutes of this game. They paired JJ with Manson to protect the lead instead, and changed on the fly with the Flyers D man standing behind the net.

As for ice time, Bo is ahead of Girard both overall, and at even strength where he's actually 2nd on the team, ahead of Cale. This is because the coaching staff doesn't evaluate Bo the way HF does.

Overall Ice Time

Makar - 24:56
Toews - 24:14
Byram - 20:20
Girard - 20:02
Manson - 17:40
Johnson - 14:46
Malinski - 14:13
Jones - 11:58

Even Strength Ice Time

Toews - 19:00
Byram - 18:22
Makar - 17:41
Girard - 17:04
Manson - 15:31
Malinksi - 13:39
Johnson - 13:36
Jones - 11:47

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The best way to evaluate importance to a team is by role, and the most objective way to do that is based on ice time, and situations they're used during games.

I'm a broken record on this, because it's meaningful, but Byram gets paired with Makar halfway through games, whether they're down a goal or not, but especially when they're down, and him and Manson close out almost every final minute of periods and games when they need to protect a lead. This is an important role.

Girard rarely gets paired with Makar, even when they need goals, and as mentioned he didn't play the final 2 minutes of the Leafs win, or the final 4 minutes of this game. They paired JJ with Manson to protect the lead instead, and changed on the fly with the Flyers D man standing behind the net.

As for ice time, Bo is ahead of Girard both overall, and at even strength where he's actually 2nd on the team, ahead of Cale. This is because the coaching staff doesn't evaluate Bo the way HF does.

Overall Ice Time

Makar - 24:56
Toews - 24:14
Byram - 20:20
Girard - 20:02
Manson - 17:40
Johnson - 14:46
Malinski - 14:13
Jones - 11:58

Even Strength Ice Time

Toews - 19:00
Byram - 18:22
Makar - 17:41
Girard - 17:04
Manson - 15:31
Malinksi - 13:39
Johnson - 13:36
Jones - 11:47

Oh, I'm not questioning your placement of Byram above Girard. I know that's a big debate going on around here and I honestly see both sides of the argument. Big difference in their approach to the game. When Byram attacks he pushes and makes people react, Girard attacks in a more thoughtful cerebral way. Girard plays defense more like Joe Sakic and Byram plays it more like Peter Forsberg. They are both extremely valuable dmen to have and if one of them was a gosh-darned right shot, none of this would matter. We'd be talking about who we wanted to unload Manson on.

I do like your view on Ice-Time, especially since you are taking usage into account. Unfortunately I fear that Ryan Johansen's useage (late in games because he's the only asshole on the team that can consistently win faceoffs) may make him appear more valuable to CMac than he is.

 

[GeoRox89]

If Petey ends up on the open market you make that deal TODAY, do whatever it takes.

That said I'm not holding my breath. I think he's trying to make Vancouver sweat to maximize his earnings. He knows he has them by the balls and he's the best player in that franchise's history. He ain't goin' anywhere.

Agree with everything else but the bolded is well bold.

Bure? Hank and Danny? I like Petey better but Quinn is arguably the better player. Hank has a significantly higher scoring (10 points) season in a low scoring era and a Hart & Art Ross competing against prime Crosby (pre-concussion/neck injury) and Ovi. Petey would love to hit a peak that high (do think he’ll have the better prime though)

 

[Pokecheque]

Agree with everything else but the bolded is well bold.

Bure? Hank and Danny? I like Petey better but Quinn is arguably the better player. Hank has a significantly higher scoring (10 points) season in a low scoring era and a Hart & Art Ross competing against prime Crosby (pre-concussion/neck injury) and Ovi. Petey would love to hit a peak that high (do think he’ll have the better prime though)

I think Quinn is without a doubt the best defenseman in that franchise's history (which isn't saying much given such luminaries as Ed Jovanovski, Alex Edler, and Harold Snepts). I think he COULD be the franchise's best player ever but I'm not there yet. Bure was indeed their Best Player Ever previously, but IMO Petey is a more complete player while also being a fantastic goal scorer to boot.

And no, the Sedins were awesome but neither of them were dynamic on the level of Petey. Where I think Henrik falls short, and this is just my opinion, is even-strength production. The Sedins feasted on the power play, whereas Petey produces more (not by a massive amount but still more) at even strength. That 2010-11 Canucks team's reliance on the power play for their offense was one of many factors that finally unraveled them in the Cup Final.

 

[GeoRox89]

I think Quinn is without a doubt the best defenseman in that franchise's history (which isn't saying much given such luminaries as Ed Jovanovski, Alex Edler, and Harold Snepts). I think he COULD be the franchise's best player ever but I'm not there yet. Bure was indeed their Best Player Ever previously, but IMO Petey is a more complete player while also being a fantastic goal scorer to boot.

And no, the Sedins were awesome but neither of them were dynamic on the level of Petey. Where I think Henrik falls short, and this is just my opinion, is even-strength production. The Sedins feasted on the power play, whereas Petey produces more (not by a massive amount but still more) at even strength. That 2010-11 Canucks team's reliance on the power play for their offense was one of many factors that finally unraveled them in the Cup Final.

That 10-11 team absolutely did. Peak Sedins was 09-10 though and Hank had 83 ES points. Petey was at 68/102 points at ES in his peak year (so far) which isn’t that much more than Danny with 62/104. 83 ES points at 10-11 scoring levels was crazy. I think Petey ends up better when his career is done for having the better prime but I still don’t see him touching the Sedins absolute peak

Glad we have the universe we do but it would still be interesting to see what happens in an alternate universe where Rome doesn’t kill Horton. Bruins looked ready to go quietly into the night and then that hit happens and it all changes

 

[Bowe Byrum]

I think Quinn is without a doubt the best defenseman in that franchise's history (which isn't saying much given such luminaries as Ed Jovanovski, Alex Edler, and Harold Snepts). I think he COULD be the franchise's best player ever but I'm not there yet. Bure was indeed their Best Player Ever previously, but IMO Petey is a more complete player while also being a fantastic goal scorer to boot.

And no, the Sedins were awesome but neither of them were dynamic on the level of Petey. Where I think Henrik falls short, and this is just my opinion, is even-strength production. The Sedins feasted on the power play, whereas Petey produces more (not by a massive amount but still more) at even strength. That 2010-11 Canucks team's reliance on the power play for their offense was one of many factors that finally unraveled them in the Cup Final.

Markus Naslund was the best player in the whole league for a year or two.

 

[Pokecheque]

Markus Naslund was the best player in the whole league for a year or two

I really liked him a lot but I don’t think I agree with that.

 

[GeoRox89]

Markus Naslund was the best player in the whole league for a year or two.

Nazzy was a fantastic player and one of the best Canucks ever but I don’t think you’ll find many Canucks fans who rank him higher than Bure or the Sedins

 

[henchman21]

It is too early to say on who if this group of Canucks are the best... there is the real potential for Hughes or Petey to be the best. If they brought a Cup to Vancouver, they'd secure that really quickly.

 

[GeoRox89]

It is too early to say on who if this group of Canucks are the best... there is the real potential for Hughes or Petey to be the best. If they brought a Cup to Vancouver, they'd secure that really quickly.

Someone would finally supplant Linden as Vancouver’s favourite son. I continue to pray this doesn’t happen though cause I don’t want to have to move to avoid dealing with how insufferable most of the people I know (who mostly don’t care about hockey) would suddenly become

 

[Pokecheque]

It is too early to say on who if this group of Canucks are the best... there is the real potential for Hughes or Petey to be the best. If they brought a Cup to Vancouver, they'd secure that really quickly.

You can already say Quinn is their best-ever defenseman. Who in the world was better? Brown? Jovanovski? Lumme? I could see the arguments for/against Petey, not Quinn though.

Demko is quite a ways from eclipsing Luongo as the GOAT Vancouver netminder but I could see it happening.

 

[henchman21]

Someone would finally supplant Linden as Vancouver’s favourite son. I continue to pray this doesn’t happen though cause I don’t want to have to move to avoid dealing with how insufferable most of the people I know (who mostly don’t care about hockey) would suddenly become

I'm just hoping someone takes bets at how long the riot would last if they did win.

You can already say Quinn is their best-ever defenseman. Who in the world was better? Brown? Jovanovski? Lumme? I could see the arguments for/against Petey, not Quinn though.

Demko is quite a ways from eclipsing Luongo as the GOAT Vancouver netminder but I could see it happening.

I'd put Edler there... played nearly a 1000 games there, was a long-term #1D for them and took them to the finals. Hughes would easily eclipse if Vancouver went on a run in the next few years.

 

[GeoRox89]

You can already say Quinn is their best-ever defenseman. Who in the world was better? Brown? Jovanovski? Lumme? I could see the arguments for/against Petey, not Quinn though.

Demko is quite a ways from eclipsing Luongo as the GOAT Vancouver netminder but I could see it happening.

It is already Quinn. They haven’t shut up about him in years. It’s given me an irrational hatred of a very good player just because I’m sick of hearing about him completely unprovoked (long before this season). Beyond that it’s between Edler and Ohlund

Snepsts and Ohlund are the only 2 to make their Ring of Honour

 

[Pokecheque]

It is already Quinn. They haven’t shut up about him in years. It’s given me an irrational hatred of a very good player just because I’m sick of hearing about him completely unprovoked (long before this season). Beyond that it’s between Edler and Ohlund

Ah yes, Ohlund was damn good. IMO Edler was wildly overrated, and dirty AF to boot. Glad he's likely done.

Hughes is their best-ever blueliner AINEC. I don't blame Canucks fans for going nuts about him, given what they've had to root for on the back end beforehand.

The top four of the WCE era was actually pretty solid. Matthias Ohlund, Sami Salo, Ed Jovanovski, and Bryan Allen.

 

[GeoRox89]

Ah yes, Ohlund was damn good. IMO Edler was wildly overrated, and dirty AF to boot. Glad he's likely done.

Hughes is their best-ever blueliner AINEC. I don't blame Canucks fans for going nuts about him, given what they've had to root for on the back end beforehand.

The top four of the WCE era was actually pretty solid. Matthias Ohlund, Sami Salo, Ed Jovanovski, and Bryan Allen.

He definitely threw some bad hits. If he didn’t go down with injury in 10-11 he would’ve been in contention for the Norris especially since I think that’s the year Lidstrom won as a minus player.

I still lived in Van during the Sedin era and have been to a lot of games since I have a goal to see every team in the league. For a wildly unusual opinion around here (or anywhere), Edler is my all time favourite Canuck and I would’ve killed to have him on that 13-14 Avs team and even some of the more recent years before his hard decline

 

[Bowe Byrum]

I really liked him a lot but I don’t think I agree with that.

won the Pearson in 2003 over Forsberg and was a Hart trophy finalist is all I'm saying.

 

[Pokecheque]

won the Pearson in 2003 over Forsberg and was a Hart trophy finalist is all I'm saying.

I know, and I still (very respectfully) don't agree.

 

[Bowe Byrum]

Nazzy was a fantastic player and one of the best Canucks ever but I don’t think you’ll find many Canucks fans who rank him higher than Bure or the Sedins

i think his very best years were better.
He was a dominant player for sure

 

[GeoRox89]

i think his very best years were better.
He was a dominant player for sure

Remember when Forsberg and Hejduk stole his Art Ross and Rocket? God that was amazing