Avalanche 2020-2021 Potential Lineups

[tigervixxxen]

There really needs to be a way to get Kaut on the team. Maybe it’s the numbers game with 12 NHL contracted forwards, it’s tough to assume one of them is out. But there’s always some injury or issue in camp so there should be room somehow.

Kaut and LOC should not be seen in the same vein. LOC should be a 13th forward, someone who can come off the bench and give energy but does not need to dress all the time. Kaut should be a regular playing on the third or fourth line. How the Avs used both in their stints this year show that they are seen differently and in separate roles.

I don’t see Kaut gaining anything from more AHL time. He has already played 100 games there. He is at the point where his growth will continue at the NHL level. This is the time for the Avs to recognize this and prove they can transition depth players from the minors. Whatever logistics they need to do to make it happen it needs to in the coming year.

 

[Foppa2118]

There really needs to be a way to get Kaut on the team. Maybe it’s the numbers game with 12 NHL contracted forwards, it’s tough to assume one of them is out. But there’s always some injury or issue in camp so there should be room somehow.

Kaut and LOC should not be seen in the same vein. LOC should be a 13th forward, someone who can come off the bench and give energy but does not need to dress all the time. Kaut should be a regular playing on the third or fourth line. How the Avs used both in their stints this year show that they are seen differently and in separate roles.

I don’t see Kaut gaining anything from more AHL time. He has already played 100 games there. He is at the point where his growth will continue at the NHL level. This is the time for the Avs to recognize this and prove they can transition depth players from the minors. Whatever logistics they need to do to make it happen it needs to in the coming year.

The reason why Kaut may end up in the AHL again is because he's better served there than as the 13th forward.

Kaut will gain more playing in the AHL than sitting in the stands, and LOC is more suited to being the 13th forwards since he's three years older at 24.

Kaut will likely have to beat out Jost for the final 4th line spot in a healthy lineup. Nuke is also someone he could be competing against if he has a slow start again.

It's possible he can do it, but it's not a given. Jost does a lot of things defensively that Bednar really likes though and so does Nuke when he's on his game. That's why they tend to stay in the lineup. Jost is also in a contract year and is probably looking to garner attention from other teams for a trade.

However, we rarely see a fully healthy lineup to start the season, so Kaut could very well make the team. He'll just need to outplay other guys to stay there once they get healthy again.

 

[McMetal]

If I were Bednar...

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Saad - Kadri - Burakovsky
Donskoi - Compher - Nichushkin
Calvert - Bellemare - Kaut
LOC/Jost

Girard - Makar
Toews - Johnson
Byram - Graves
Cole

For forwards, you don't break up the top line. It works, they work, why mess with it? I want Kaut on the team, too. He needs to be in the NHL to continue working on his game, and he can force his way up the lineup from that spot. LOC is perfectly capable of being a great 13F, and also Jost doesn't fit anywhere in the top or bottom six. For his sake Joe should have traded him and his cheap contract somewhere, it's cruel to keep him around at this point.

On D, Girard and Makar are the two best we have, they should be on the top pair making merry hell in every zone together. The problem of them being the only two PMDs in the top 4 is gone now that Toews is here, he can slot in nicely on the second pair and let EJ properly be in his #4 spot. It makes no sense for Byram to be a 7th D, and he can't go to the WHL or AHL. Sorry, Cole, but a 4th overall pick beats your seniority.

Now, I doubt much of this WILL happen. But it's what I would do, for what that's worth.

 

[MarkT]

For the record, I believe strongly there are no wrong answers. So I'm going to try to be creative:

Calvert - MacKinnon - Burakovsky - The "pass to MacKinnon then get open" line
These guys had clear chemistry with MacKinnon. You then occasionally double-shift MacKinnon with some combination of Burakovsky, Saad, Nichushkin or Donskoi as his wingers. For example, after a PK you roll out MacKinnon with Saad and Burakovsky.

Landeskog - Kadri - Rantanen - The "whoever is hot tonight can be The Guy" line
I want to see Rantanen with the puck more

Saad - Compher - Nichushkin - The "this is the line you mess with when you get injuries" line
Ideally this is your shut-down line

LOC - Bellemare - Donskoi - The "maybe Donskoi needs to be the best guy on the line" line
Someone too good to be on the 4th line is going to be here. Normally that's Calvert but here it's Donskoi. Could be Nichushkin though if line 3 doesn't have chemistry

Jost (the ideal 13th forward)
_____________________________________________

Girard - Makar - The "f*** it, let's f***ing go!" pair
Put the two best guys out there for 20+ minutes each and hope for the best. Every once in a while you can split them up for a shift or two.

Toews - Timmins - The "let's make Timmy a star" pair
If Timmins is going to be an NHL player, let's make it happen. Toews is a player who likes to support the guys around him. Timmins could use the support.

Graves - EJ - The "shut? down?" pair
I know a lot of people here don't like Graves, but with EJ he doesn't have to do the defensive heavy lifting and can jump into the play whenever he wants.

Cole
The ideal 7th defenseman. A veteran locker room guy who can play both sides if needed. With him as an option I'd also be open to going 7 D some nights - especially if we have a forward or two injured.

 

[Metallo]

Kaut will gain more playing in the AHL than sitting in the stands, and LOC is more suited to being the 13th forwards since he's three years older at 24.

People say that Kaut needs playing time and on the other hand that he can’t learn much in the AHL.

Could he learn by practicing and being around the team, without playing much?
(Having practice, extra practice as a scratch, and also being around skills coachs.)

I’d like to hear this Board’s thougths on the value of practicing in the NHL as way to develop a player instead of playing in the AHL.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Even though he’s way better than Donskoi, I’d really like to see Saad on the third line. I think the defensive skill set of Saad and Nuke allows JTC to focus a little less on defense and spend more time doing the things he’s good at. I think Donskoi’s style clashes with JTC (and most of the team for that matter). Plus Saad is a very extreme north south player who excels off the rush much like JTC.

Landeskog Mackinnon Rantanen
Donskoi Kadri Burakovsky
Saad Compher Nichushkin
Jost Bellemare Calvert

Girard Makar
Toews EJ
Byram Graves

 

[Islay1989]

Kaut is an interesting case, he has the playing style that would work on the lower lines, but I fear that having him on the 4th line would pidgeon hole him into developing as a checking forward. And I'd hate to see that. He needs to work on his offense as well. I want a 20 goal scorer out of him, ideally in the Saad mold, not a 10 goal grinder.

 

[LostInMosEisley]

I'm curious how changes from playing a season during a pandemic will affect how the Avs handle their roster depth. I believe there's been talk of expanded rosters so guys can be available to quickly insert into the lineup if multiple people have to be pulled from the lineup in the event of an outbreak. The Avs have a pretty standard lineup under one way NHL contracts: 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goaltenders. Next up on the depth chart are all younger prospects who normally you want to be getting ice time wherever they are: Byram, Timmins, Kaut, Bowers. Byram specifically has little to gain from another year in the WHL. Do they have the older guys on the depth chart like LOC, Dries, Gilbert, Burroughs, etc. making up the "depth" because you feel better about scratching them when they're not needed in the NHL lineup? Or maybe they have to shift their thinking and treat additional depth in the lineup as a kind of developmental camp, where they find ways to work with the young prospects while they are on an NHL roster and maybe not getting as much ice time as they normally would? I'd think if they ended up doing something like the latter they would want to rotate the prospects into the lineup on regularly even when injuries and illness don't make it necessary.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think there will be a small group of black aces or taxi squad or whatever you want to call it which stays with the NHL club and practices with them because there’s no way they can make daily recalls to the AHL even residing in the same state. So a decision is going to be made which group to put certain guys in, if someone is sent to the Eagles then they probably aren’t in consideration for a callup unless they get moved up to that group, sort of like a waiting room.

Kaut is playing now unlike the rest of his competition so perhaps that helps him out down the road. If he has to sit for a little bit because the team is 100% healthy I don’t think that’s a problem. I’d rather have him truly next in line by being on/around the team. Same thing with Byram, he will have high level WJC games under his belt by then.

 

[shadow1]

Kaut will get lots of action this season (unless he really struggles).

The path to ice time looks congested now, but injuries and underperforming will happen, clearing the path for him. If you don't know it already, you'll be appalled to learn that Vlad Kamenev and TJ Tynan combined to play 54 games last season (and also combined for 1 goal!).

 

[EdAVSfan]

People say that Kaut needs playing time and on the other hand that he can’t learn much in the AHL.

Could he learn by practicing and being around the team, without playing much?
(Having practice, extra practice as a scratch, and also being around skills coachs.)

I’d like to hear this Board’s thougths on the value of practicing in the NHL as way to develop a player instead of playing in the AHL.

It’lL be very hard to say for now.

If the season is going to be condensed like we expect, there’s likely going to be less practicing than usual.

 

[duckbear]

I agree that there are no wrong answers, but I would really like to see:

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen
I think Burakovsky and Rantanen are interchangeable here, but I'd like to see how Jost plays on this line, and if it creates some confidence for him. Players usually breakout in their 3rd/4th NHL season. This is Jost's. Crosby has famously elevated players and if MacK can turn Jost into a top six forward I think that would be great asset management.

Landeskog - Kadri - Burakovsky
Again, I think Bura and Rants could be interchangeable here, but either way you get a fantastic 2nd line.

Saad - Compher - Donskoi
This third line should make things difficult for the opposition, but still score goals.

Calvert - Bellemare - Nichushkin
A real solid checking line

O'Connor/Kaut
If there is an AHL season, I'm starting Kaut in the minors to hope to develop him into a middle-sixer rather than a bottom sixer. He's the perfect first call up. If there is no AHL season or there are bubbles, that complicates things and I think he rotates in playing 30-40 games in a condensed schedule.
_____________________________________________

Graves - Makar
We know Graves played pretty well last year in the regular season. We signed him to a decent term. Let's see what he's got.

Girard - Johnson
I don't think the team is ready to move Johnson out of the top 4.

Toews - Timmins/Cole
Timmins get's priority here, especially in the regular season, but rotates with Cole in a condensed schedule to ease him in.

Byram
Serious questions about where he plays if not in the NHL, but I think pushing his rookie season off until next year (or at least the playoffs) is preferable. If there are injuries concerns (there probably are) then I could very well see him rotating in with Timmins/Cole and maybe even EJ to keep him rested.

 

[Richard88]

I agree that there are no wrong answers, but I would really like to see:

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen
I think Burakovsky and Rantanen are interchangeable here, but I'd like to see how Jost plays on this line, and if it creates some confidence for him. Players usually breakout in their 3rd/4th NHL season. This is Jost's. Crosby has famously elevated players and if MacK can turn Jost into a top six forward I think that would be great asset management.

Landeskog - Kadri - Burakovsky
Again, I think Bura and Rants could be interchangeable here, but either way you get a fantastic 2nd line.

Saad - Compher - Donskoi
This third line should make things difficult for the opposition, but still score goals.

Calvert - Bellemare - Nichushkin
A real solid checking line

O'Connor/Kaut
If there is an AHL season, I'm starting Kaut in the minors to hope to develop him into a middle-sixer rather than a bottom sixer. He's the perfect first call up. If there is no AHL season or there are bubbles, that complicates things and I think he rotates in playing 30-40 games in a condensed schedule.
_____________________________________________

Graves - Makar
We know Graves played pretty well last year in the regular season. We signed him to a decent term. Let's see what he's got.

Girard - Johnson
I don't think the team is ready to move Johnson out of the top 4.

Toews - Timmins/Cole
Timmins get's priority here, especially in the regular season, but rotates with Cole in a condensed schedule to ease him in.

Byram
Serious questions about where he plays if not in the NHL, but I think pushing his rookie season off until next year (or at least the playoffs) is preferable. If there are injuries concerns (there probably are) then I could very well see him rotating in with Timmins/Cole and maybe even EJ to keep him rested.

I'm not sure about Jost on the top line, but that lineup does illutrate what a ridiculously strong lineup we would have if we added another top 6/1st line forward at the deadline. For example, pencil in someone like Tatar instead of Jost on the 1st line...

 

[henchman21]

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Ok, I'll give my annual sneaky best line up no one agrees with....

The lines are actually fine - especially Calvert with MacKinnon (I think they have sneaky chemistry)

Question being - you're not feeding Bellemare 1st line minutes right? If you're giving Belly 3rd line minutes, then your roster isnt far off the one others are proposing IMO.

 

[duckbear]

I love that gif ... and expected that kind of reaction.

I'm not saying it has to go on all year long, but I'd love to see it played for 15-20 games at the start of the season to see how it worked. Worst case is we inflate his value a bit for a deadline deal.

 

[henchman21]

I love that gif ... and expected that kind of reaction.

I'm not saying it has to go on all year long, but I'd love to see it played for 15-20 games at the start of the season to see how it worked. Worst case is we inflate his value a bit for a deadline deal.

Considering the season is likely to get shortened, 15-20 games could be detrimental. IMO it is time to really give up on him certainly as a top 6 option, and likely as a wing. He can't play wing because he can't win battles. He can't play center up there because he can't skate. Further exposing that will only hurt his value. IMO the last real shot Jost has here is if the Avs can shoehorn him into a #3C role and it sticks. Problem is that he is stylistically worse than Compher in that spot for the Avs. Not that Compher is a great #3C (he's not), he just fits what the Avs do better than Jost.

 

[the_fan]

The lines are actually fine - especially Calvert with MacKinnon (I think they have sneaky chemistry)

Question being - you're not feeding Bellemare 1st line minutes right? If you're giving Belly 3rd line minutes, then your roster isnt far off the one others are proposing IMO.

The reason I'm putting MacK on 3rd line is because I'm tired of hearing how Avs don't have the right 3 C to win the cup, and MacK being there solves that problem. As far as Bellemare on 1st line, not sure why just seems fun.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The reason I'm putting MacK on 3rd line is because I'm tired of hearing how Avs don't have the right 3 C to win the cup, and MacK being there solves that problem. As far as Bellemare on 1st line, not sure why just seems fun.

Would definitely throw off the matchups lol.

 

[Metallo]

It’lL be very hard to say for now.

If the season is going to be condensed like we expect, there’s likely going to be less practicing than usual.

Good point regarding this season.

I’d like to hear thoughts on the question in a standard regular season context also.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t think Makar and Girard played that well together this year.

I’m sure they could figure it out if they spent more time playing together, but I didn’t think they were that great as a pairing.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I agree that there are no wrong answers, but I would really like to see:

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen
I think Burakovsky and Rantanen are interchangeable here, but I'd like to see how Jost plays on this line, and if it creates some confidence for him. Players usually breakout in their 3rd/4th NHL season. This is Jost's. Crosby has famously elevated players and if MacK can turn Jost into a top six forward I think that would be great asset management.

Landeskog - Kadri - Burakovsky
Again, I think Bura and Rants could be interchangeable here, but either way you get a fantastic 2nd line.

Saad - Compher - Donskoi
This third line should make things difficult for the opposition, but still score goals.

Calvert - Bellemare - Nichushkin
A real solid checking line

O'Connor/Kaut
If there is an AHL season, I'm starting Kaut in the minors to hope to develop him into a middle-sixer rather than a bottom sixer. He's the perfect first call up. If there is no AHL season or there are bubbles, that complicates things and I think he rotates in playing 30-40 games in a condensed schedule.
_____________________________________________

Graves - Makar
We know Graves played pretty well last year in the regular season. We signed him to a decent term. Let's see what he's got.

Girard - Johnson
I don't think the team is ready to move Johnson out of the top 4.

Toews - Timmins/Cole
Timmins get's priority here, especially in the regular season, but rotates with Cole in a condensed schedule to ease him in.

Byram
Serious questions about where he plays if not in the NHL, but I think pushing his rookie season off until next year (or at least the playoffs) is preferable. If there are injuries concerns (there probably are) then I could very well see him rotating in with Timmins/Cole and maybe even EJ to keep him rested.

What has Mackinnon ever done to you to make you treat him so disrespectfully?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Good point regarding this season.

I’d like to hear thoughts on the question in a standard regular season context also.

In a standard season, I can see legitimacy to both points.

Raotating in and out of NHL plus practicing with NHLers, vs getting top line minutes and responsibilities in a lower league.

to be honest, I’m simply not educated enough in the pros and cons to know which would be a better application.

my personal, uneducated opinion, I think this scenario would be more beneficial to a guy like Byram, since I believe he’ll be far above the quality in the WHL. Whereas with Kaut, he’s at least in the next best league, hopefully developing all areas of his game. I think Kaut is going to need to be a Swiss Army knife kinda player to get meaningful moments. A PKing Nuke of sorts.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Too much time in the AHL leads to stagnation. By 100 GP they need to be moved on.

 

[Metallo]

In a standard season, I can see legitimacy to both points.

Raotating in and out of NHL plus practicing with NHLers, vs getting top line minutes and responsibilities in a lower league.

to be honest, I’m simply not educated enough in the pros and cons to know which would be a better application.

my personal, uneducated opinion, I think this scenario would be more beneficial to a guy like Byram, since I believe he’ll be far above the quality in the WHL. Whereas with Kaut, he’s at least in the next best league, hopefully developing all areas of his game. I think Kaut is going to need to be a Swiss Army knife kinda player to get meaningful moments. A PKing Nuke of sorts.

You make a good point when you mention that the analysis must consider the next best alternative (AHL, CHL, etc.).

Personnally I think there still value in practicing at the highest level. You see other sports (football and soccer) being able to develop players without relying on playing time.

For example, I think Byram would be better served as the 8th D man and playing only 20-25 (in a full season) then returning to the WHL. That would give him a lot of reps and time to train, and hopefully being ready to contribute in the playoffs.