Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round VI (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[JA]

Mind linking that again?

From the midterm ranking in February:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-mid-season-draft-ranking-topped-by-big-three-1.435206

“Had to think long and hard about it,” said another scout. “Laine is right there. In the end, we favoured the centre over the winger but I don’t think it’s a reach at all to see Laine going first overall. A lot of our European scouts who see these guys think Laine is better.”

Bob McKenzie was on TSN 1040 to speak about several topics just over a week ago. TSN 1040 has posted the interview on soundcloud.

9:20 of this podcast excerpt from ten days ago, McKenzie talks about the European scouts and Laine:

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-vancouver/mckenzie-equal-upside-between-dubios-and-tkachuk

10:40:

"I do know that a lot of NHL teams have noted to me that their European scouts all season long have had Laine ahead of Matthews, so it's not a ludicrous notion that some people think that Laine could be better than Matthews, but we'll see where it goes, and as I said, I still think the Leafs are more leaning towards the big center as opposed to the big winger, but they've got another, almost a couple of months before they make a decision, and they've got three weeks of great hockey to put into the hopper."

 

[IronHalen]

It may not be a majority, but it does not mean it is not either. A Number of European scouts. Meaning more than one. Probably a lot more than one.

A number of people in this thread think Laine is better than Matthews. Meaning more than one. This minority would be wrong.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Thank you, I knew that he never said majority like you proclaimed. Had to make sure I remembered correctly.

Probably a lot more than one, hey maybe two!

No probs. Sure beats the AINEC narrative doesn't it? Who knows, maybe that number(could be 2, who knows could 5 or could be 10+. all we know it is plural) of European scouts even scouts for the Leafs?

 

[agent082]

I hope next thread title is unbiased and is formed alphabetically like they normally has done: Patrik Laine vs. Auston Matthews - Round VII (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

 

[goblin3]

Theme song of this thread.

 

[Liminality]

From the midterm ranking in February:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-mid-season-draft-ranking-topped-by-big-three-1.435206

Here's another quote.

Matthews, obviously, is the heavy favorite to be taken first overall at the draft in Buffalo on June 24, but it’s not an absolute slam dunk, despite going for 10 for 10 with our panel of scouts.

We asked those 10 scouts if Matthews at No. 1 was an “easy call” or “had to think long and hard about it.”
They were pretty much evenly split.
“He’s a big No. 1 centre and he’s earned No. 1 status,” one scout said. “He’s the guy.”

5 or so thought it was an easy call and the others had to think long and hard. All 10 of the scouts they asked said Matthews was #1.

 

[agent082]

Theme song of this thread.

I hope they are more successful than Pat & Mat.

 

[SampoHoitaa]

Here's another quote.



5 or so thought it was an easy call and the others had to think long and hard. All 10 of the scouts they asked said Matthews was #1.

When was this and what are you quoting?

EDIT: Oh right, the midterm rankings.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here's another quote.



5 or so thought it was an easy call and the others had to think long and hard. All 10 of the scouts they asked said Matthews was #1.

Link from which source?

 

[Liminality]

Link from which source?

It's in the same article that JetsAlternate posted.

 

[IamherefortheFinn]

Probably a lot more than one, hey maybe two!

English is my 2nd language but if it's anything less than 4, i would think that the tweet is seriously misleading.

 

[Liminality]

English is my 2nd language but if it's anything less than 4, i would think that the tweet is seriously misleading.

Sorry it was a bad joke, your english is quite fine.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

From the midterm ranking in February:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-mid-season-draft-ranking-topped-by-big-three-1.435206


9:20 of this podcast excerpt, McKenzie talks about the European scouts and Laine:

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-vancouver/mckenzie-equal-upside-between-dubios-and-tkachuk

10:40:

"I do know that a lot of NHL teams have noted to me that their European scouts all season long have had Laine ahead of Matthews."

Yep. Great point Bob makes. Ari Vuori is the X factor. Well respected, and he has saw both Matthews and Laine in Europe all season. "I wouldn't be the most shocked if an European scout would place Laine ahead of Matthews." Mckenzie noted in the clip.

And I agree with him, why would a team make up their minds before the end of the WHC.

It's in the same article that JetsAlternate posted.

Then you would have also heard what I posted above.

 

[JA]

Here's another quote.



5 or so thought it was an easy call and the others had to think long and hard. All 10 of the scouts they asked said Matthews was #1.

That's from February. That is when Bob's information about European scouts favoring Laine was first published, hence I posted that article.

The following is from April 27, two weeks ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/laine-closes-gap-on-matthews-atop-tsn-draft-rankings-1.478128

At face value, nothing has changed from TSN's Mid-Season NHL draft rankings. Matthews is still No. 1; Laine is still No. 2.

But when 10 NHL scouts were surveyed by TSN in late January/early February, all 10 had Matthews at No. 1. This time, in a survey of the same 10 scouts – conducted in the run-up to Saturday's NHL draft lottery – two of the 10 said Laine is now No. 1 on their team's lists. Others suggested they had to think long and hard about their decision to keep Matthews at No. 1.

The soundcloud podcast audio from ten days ago, at the time stamp given, is of Bob talking about European scouts and Laine; this is where he says, "I do know that a lot of NHL teams have noted to me that their European scouts all season long have had Laine ahead of Matthews."

 

[Lempo]

I hope next thread title is unbiased and is formed alphabetically like they normally has done: Patrik Laine vs. Auston Matthews - Round VII (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

Oo-aw! We gotta change to the other jersey?!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That's from February. That is when Bob's information about European scouts favoring Laine was first published, hence I posted that article.

The following is from April, two weeks ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/laine-closes-gap-on-matthews-atop-tsn-draft-rankings-1.478128

Thus if the Leafs place any value in Vuori's opinion. This draft and 1-2 is not a foregone conclusion as some may think it is. Mckenzie with some very strong hints in that audio clip, and we know his hints are more often correct than wrong.

 

[JA]

http://www.tsn.ca/mondaymustread-5-burning-post-lottery-questions-1.482013

#MondayMustRead: 5 Burning Post-Lottery Questions
By Frank Seravalli
May 2

1. Are the Maple Leafs definitely going to draft Auston Matthews with the No. 1 pick?

All signs point to that happening on June 24, but before you run out to buy your new Matthews jersey, it might not be the slam dunk, forgone conclusion everyone believes. The Maple Leafs held their scouting meetings in Chicago last week and the team’s top brass then attended the NFL Draft. It’s believed a consensus was reached on an early draft list, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was unanimous. Maple Leafs director of European scouting Ari Vuori may have made a strong case for Toronto to select Finnish sniper Patrik Laine ahead of Matthews.

Vuori, 53, came over to the Maple Leafs last year from the Detroit Red Wings with Mike Babcock. He was instrumental in drafting Anze Kopitar in Los Angeles along with Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar and Teemu Pulkkinen, among others, in Detroit. Since Matthews played in Switzerland this season, European scouts like Vuori have been able to make a better comparison to Laine than any normal year with him in their backyard. Matthews is No. 1 on TSN and NHL Central Scouting’s lists and was dominant in the better European league, but many European scouts have maintained since the World Junior championship (and not just because of his recent playoff hot streak) that Laine is the best player available. Vuori may well be in that group.

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-vancouver/mckenzie-equal-upside-between-dubios-and-tkachuk

McKenzie:

"I would suggest that: the Leafs' European chief scout is Ari Vuori, a Finn . . . Vuori is a really well-respected scout, and he's been in Europe and in Finland all year, and he would have seen Matthews and Laine firsthand all season long as the chief European scouts for the Leafs would. . . . I can't put words in Ari Vuori's mouth, but I wouldn't be the most shocked guy in the world if a European scout like Vuori maybe had Laine ahead of Matthews. I've talked to a number of teams that have told me that their European scouts all season long, not just after this playoffs that Laine has had, have had Laine ahead of Matthews. . . . I do know that a lot of NHL teams have noted to me that their European scouts all season long have had Laine ahead of Matthews."

 

[Liminality]

That's from February. That is when Bob's information about European scouts favoring Laine was first published, hence I posted that article.

The following is from April 27, two weeks ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/laine-closes-gap-on-matthews-atop-tsn-draft-rankings-1.478128

The soundcloud podcast audio from ten days ago, at the time stamp given, is of Bob talking about European scouts and Laine; this is where he says, "I do know that a lot of NHL teams have noted to me that their European scouts all season long have had Laine ahead of Matthews."

That's what I was looking for, just used that quote because you were quoting from that article.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

http://www.tsn.ca/mondaymustread-5-burning-post-lottery-questions-1.482013

Again, this is why I have been cautious of saying I am not sure who is going #1. There may be a lot of posts edits or position reversals in these theads if Laine indeed does go #1.

Will reiterate. Both are great prospects and it is close enough between the 2 to suggest it is 51/49 as opposed to AINEC or 99.99% commentary that Matthews is going #1. Vuori is well respected. He was instrumental in LA picking Kopitar, and Detroit's success with selecting the right European players for their organization.

I do not believe the Leafs would hire him, and not listen to him. For Vuori to move to the Leafs, he had to be assured he would have a major voice at the draft. 1-2 is not a foregone conclusion. And we still have games to play at the WHC.

 

[IronHalen]

Again, this is why I have cautious of saying I am not sure who is going #1. There may be a lot of posts edits or position reversals in these theads if Laine indeed does go #1.

Will reiterate. Both are great prospects and it is close enough between the 2 to suggest it is 51/49 as opposed to AINEC or 99.99% commentary that Matthews is going #1. Vuori is well respected. He was instrumental in LA picking Kopitar, and Detroit's success with selecting the right European players for their organization.

I do not believe the Leafs would hire him, and not listen to him. For Vuori to move to the Leafs, he had to be assured he would have a major voice at the draft. 1-2 is not a foregone conclusion. And we still have games to play at the WHC.

That's all fine and dandy but who even knows which player he actually prefers?

And this 51/49 bit is laughable..

 

[Liminality]

Again, this is why I have cautious of saying I am not sure who is going #1. There may be a lot of posts edits or position reversals in these theads if Laine indeed does go #1.

Will reiterate. Both are great prospects and it is close enough between the 2 to suggest it is 51/49 as opposed to AINEC or 99.99% commentary that Matthews is going #1. Vuori is well respected. He was instrumental in LA picking Kopitar, and Detroit's success with selecting the right European players for their organization.

I do not believe the Leafs would hire him, and not listen to him. For Vuori to move to the Leafs, he had to be assured he would have a major voice at the draft. 1-2 is not a foregone conclusion. And we still have games to play at the WHC.

Is the 51/49 a percentage chance of teams in the NHL drafting one or the other? If so I have to disagree. Even in McKenzie's panel of scouts they were 8-2 in favor of Matthews. Maybe some more think Laine is better and projects better but I'd have to say it's a lot closer to 80%/20% than 51%/49% going by what McKenzie said.

 

[JA]

Does McKenzie only poll North American scouts? I find it peculiar that the scouts being quoted in McKenzie's reports would refer to their European scouts as if they had no involvement in the poll.

February poll:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-mid-season-draft-ranking-topped-by-big-three-1.435206

“Had to think long and hard about it,” said another scout. “Laine is right there. In the end, we favoured the centre over the winger but I don’t think it’s a reach at all to see Laine going first overall. A lot of our European scouts who see these guys think Laine is better.”

April poll:

http://www.tsn.ca/laine-closes-gap-on-matthews-atop-tsn-draft-rankings-1.478128

At face value, nothing has changed from TSN's Mid-Season NHL draft rankings. Matthews is still No. 1; Laine is still No. 2.

But when 10 NHL scouts were surveyed by TSN in late January/early February, all 10 had Matthews at No. 1. This time, in a survey of the same 10 scouts – conducted in the run-up to Saturday's NHL draft lottery – two of the 10 said Laine is now No. 1 on their team's lists. Others suggested they had to think long and hard about their decision to keep Matthews at No. 1.

If McKenzie were to poll the European scouts, the inference is that Laine would poll ahead of Matthews. The words "many" and "a lot" have been used to describe the number of NHL European scouts who view Laine as being better than Matthews. Back in February, the words "a lot" were already being used to refer to the number of European scouts who shared that view while the North American scouts were still in favor of Matthews. The gap has narrowed considerably for the North American scouts, so for all of those European scouts, the difference has probably been made clearer.

 

[waingr0]

I think the master is trying to rile up some fans again.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Does McKenzie only poll North American scouts? I find it peculiar that the scouts being quoted in McKenzie's reports would refer to their European scouts as if they had no involvement in the poll.

February poll:

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-mid-season-draft-ranking-topped-by-big-three-1.435206


If McKenzie were to poll the European scouts, the inference is that Laine would poll ahead of Matthews.

Since both Laine and Matthews played in Europe this year. This is why Mckenzie is referencing European scouts. The Leafs picked a good time to secure Ari Vuori. They are going to get the best information on who they deem as better. And if Mckenzie is correct. A number are leaning Laine's way even before the Liiiga playoffs and the WHC. Then the trend of Laine's stock going up is an obvious one on team's draft boards.

On a side note, since people keep mentioning 49/51. This is my opinion. I have Laine and Matthews as a toss up for going number 1.

Which in my mind is a lot more accurate than AINEC or 99.99% or absolute Nostradamus draft statements.

And as always, I believe both Laine or Matthews will be great picks for whomever team picks them either 1 or 2.

 

[Space Coyote]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.