ATD2011 Thomas D. Green Prelims: (4) Springfield Indians vs. (5) Cincinnati Fireworks

[seventieslord]

Springfield Indians

Coach: Don Cherry
Assistant Coach: Ted Nolan
Captain: Dit Clapper
Alternate Captain: Jarome Iginla
Alternate Captain: Red Horner

Bun Cook - Adam Oates - Jarome Iginla
Valery Kamensky - Bobby Smith - Danny Gare
Don Marshall - Don Luce - Mario Tremblay
Dennis Hextall - Mike Richards - Cliff Koroll
Bones Raleigh

Red Horner - Dit Clapper
Carol Vadnais - Jack Crawford
Behn Wilson - Joe Jerwa
Allan Shields

Glenn Hall
Bill Ranford

PP1: Bun Cook - Adam Oates - Jarome Iginla - Dit Clapper - Joe Jerwa
PP2: Valery Kamensky - Bobby Smith - Danny Gare - Carol Vadnais - Behn Wilson

PK1: Don Luce - Don Marshall - Red Horner - Jack Crawford
PK2: Mike Richards - Bun Cook - Dit Clapper - Joe Jerwa



​

VS

CINCINNATI FIREWORKS


Manager: Markrander87



Head Coach: Jacques Demers
Captain: Ed Litzenberger
Assistant Captains: Darryl Sittler, Larry Robinson, Viktor Kuzkin


Bert Olmstead - Darryl Sittler (A) - Bernie Geoffrion
Dean Prentice - Paul Ronty - Ed Litzenberger (C)
Red Berenson - Art Chapman - Dolly Swift
Shayne Corson - Rick Meagher - Jerry Toppazzini

Extra: Danny Grant LW/RW, Marc Savard

Larry Robinson (A) - Allan Stanley
Vitaly Davydov - Viktor Kuzkin (A)
Paul Shmyr - Mathieu Schneider

Extra: Larry Hillman, Bob Turner


Bernie Parent
Gerry Mcneil


PP1: Olmstead - Sittler - Litzenberger
Geoffrion - Robinson

PP2: Berenson - Ronty - Swift
Schneider - Kuzkin

PK1: Prentice -Toppazzini
Robinson - Stanley

PK2: Berenson - Meagher
Kuzkin - Davydov
​

Draft Picks:
Round 1: Larry Robinson
Round 2: Bernie Geoffrion
Round 3: Bernie Parent
Round 4: Bert Olmstead
Round 5: Darryl Sittler
Round 6: Allan Stanley
Round 7: Ed Litzenberger
Round 8: Dean Prentice
Round 9: Vitaly Davydov
Round 10: Viktor Kuzkin
Round 11: Paul Ronty
Round 12: Art Chapman
Round 13: Jerry Toppazzini
Round 14: Red Berenson
Round 15: Jacques Demers
Round 16: Bob Turner
Round 16: Mathieu Schneider
Round 17: Rick Meagher
Round 18: Shayne Corson
Round 19: Paul Shmyr
Round 20: Dolly Swift
Round 21: Danny Grant
Round 22: Gerry Mcneil
Round 23: Larry Hillman
Round 24: Marc Savard

Click to read more...

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

There was so much parity in this division... it was ridiculous. All 5 teams had serious consideration for 1st place.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

There was so much parity in this division... it was ridiculous. All 5 teams had serious consideration for 1st place.

Agree.

 

[Stoneberg]

I definitely had Mark out of the bottom two but it was really tough to rank this division for me as well.

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

I had Mark last, but like I said, I also gave him serious consideration for 1st... this was just a really competitive division. To be honest, my regular season rankings for this division were pretty arbitrary... I was just so confused and conflicted by the end. I'll be following the matchups carefully and I could easily see myself voting for upsets.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I really hope both GMs here give it their all. I know I'm not sitting easy as a #1 seed in this division.

 

[markrander87]

Pretty typical, Im heading to Europe tomorrow so you can give Raleh the sweep.


I'd like somebody to point out the weakness in my team? Rontys offense?(Sturm already covered that) Absolutely hilarious, it's pretty apparent you guys vote with your heart and not with your mind. Another clearcut example of ATD favourtism.

A few parting words...

Better first line by an enormous margin
Better 2nd line
more offense from my 3rd line

Better 1st d Pairing my an enormous margin
Better bottom 4
Don Cherry...

And I hope his 2nd line intends on scoring every single one of his goals because his bottom 6 provides zero offense and the Robinson-Stanley pair will be out against his top line as much as possible although they are not deemed that much of a threat regardless.

I guess Glen Hall with have to be 800% better than Bernie Parent in the playoffs which you fools will have some way of demonstrating in some excel spreadsheet.

 

[markrander87]

I give any Gm full reigns on this series if they have some free time to argue on my behalf. Again I am going to Europe and will have little to no internet access.

I'm not even convinced Hall is a better playoff goalie than Parent. 1 cup, 1 Smythe, 49-65 record..

 

[Leafs Forever]

Pretty typical, Im heading to Europe tomorrow so you can give Raleh the sweep.


I'd like somebody to point out the weakness in my team? Rontys offense?(Sturm already covered that) Absolutely hilarious, it's pretty apparent you guys vote with your heart and not with your mind. Another clearcut example of ATD favourtism.

A few parting words...

Better first line by an enormous margin
Better 2nd line
more offense from my 3rd line

Better 1st d Pairing my an enormous margin
Better bottom 4
Don Cherry...

And I hope his 2nd line intends on scoring every single one of his goals because his bottom 6 provides zero offense and the Robinson-Stanley pair will be out against his top line as much as possible although they are not deemed that much of a threat regardless.

I guess Glen Hall with have to be 800% better than Bernie Parent in the playoffs which you fools will have some way of demonstrating in some excel spreadsheet.

mark, why does everytime you don't get the ranking you want have to be a conspiracy against you? Here's an idea: maybe other teams just liked the good teams in our division a bit more than yours. We've had two GMs already come here and say that our division was very jammed together, and not to be discouraged.

 

[Velociraptor]

mark, why does everytime you don't get the ranking you want have to be a conspiracy against you? Here's an idea: maybe other teams just liked the good teams in our division a bit more than yours. We've had two GMs already come here and say that our division was very jammed together, and not to be discouraged.

It's true mark, no need to react like that. I had your team third place, it was a very difficult division to rank, and I'd say many managers also had a tough time voting.

Mark remember when you upset the Falcons last year as a 7th place team? anything is possible, you drafted a solid team.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This division was so close , it was a crapshoot to rank them , I had mark higher if only for Parent and my endless approval of big bird.

That's actually stuff like that that made me rank the teams in this division lol

 

[markrander87]

Can somebody explain to me how a team with:

Reg Noble-Derian Hatcher
Ulf Samuelsson-Brian Rafalski


as your TOP 4 can be ranked anywheres in the top 3 of their division. You could have 4 of the best lines in the entire league and you wouldnt have a chance of winning this.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Can somebody explain to me how a team with:

Reg Noble-Derian Hatcher
Ulf Samuelsson-Brian Rafalski


as your TOP 4 can be ranked anywheres in the top 3 of their division. You could have 4 of the best lines in the entire league and you wouldnt have a chance of winning this.

Well this team top 2 lines are awesomes , but I don't think I ranked them ahead of you but to be honest I don't clearly remember.I know I had you both top 3.

 

[markrander87]

mark, why does everytime you don't get the ranking you want have to be a conspiracy against you? Here's an idea: maybe other teams just liked the good teams in our division a bit more than yours. We've had two GMs already come here and say that our division was very jammed together, and not to be discouraged.

Do you have anything relavant to say regarding the series? I've posted my parting arguements. Or should we create a "LF ATD Good Samaritan thread" Where you puff your chest out and tell other GM's how to act on a public internet hockey thread.... get over yourself why do you feel the need to tell other ppl how to act, I could care less about your opinions on how to behave on the internet who are you again?

If you have any input regarding my team go at it, other than that you can save all of your how to act BS.

If a MOD wants to PM and me and tell me how to post than that's fine. Obviously I am well within the rules of this site so save your weak motions on what I should and shouldn't do you're a nobody.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Can somebody explain to me how a team with:

Reg Noble-Derian Hatcher
Ulf Samuelsson-Brian Rafalski


as your TOP 4 can be ranked anywheres in the top 3 of their division. You could have 4 of the best lines in the entire league and you wouldnt have a chance of winning this.

Because of the excellent forward group. You just like balance more than other GMs, it seems; that doesn't mean you or anyone else is wrong.

Do you have anything relavant to say regarding the series? I've posted my parting arguements. Or should we create a "LF ATD Good Samaritan thread" Where you puff your chest out and tell other GM's how to act on a public internet hockey thread.... get over yourself why do you feel the need to tell other ppl how to act, I could care less about your opinions on how to behave on the internet who are you again?

If you have any input regarding my team go at it, other than that you can save all of your how to act BS.

It wasn't an effort to come off as good; I just grow weary of you doing this every single ATD you take part of. You are telling me how to act in telling me to be silent unless its about the series, no? (something you haven't been doing, I might add).

Very well:
-I don't completely buy much of your arguements without more reinforcement; I'd particularly like to see how the defense matches up outside of the #1, which I'm unsure of. You do have a stronger top-6 I think, though I like the Springfield bottom-6 a lot more.

-As a large defender of Glenn Hall's playoff in the past: he is a good playoff goalie and I consider him a better goalie in the ATD playoffs than I do Bernie Parent, though Parent does narrow the gap no doubt. The record and lack of cups is more a result of team choking.

 

[vecens24]

Do you have anything relavant to say regarding the series? I've posted my parting arguements. Or should we create a "LF ATD Good Samaritan thread" Where you puff your chest out and tell other GM's how to act on a public internet hockey thread.... get over yourself why do you feel the need to tell other ppl how to act, I could care less about your opinions on how to behave on the internet who are you again?

If you have any input regarding my team go at it, other than that you can save all of your how to act BS.

If a MOD wants to PM and me and tell me how to post than that's fine. Obviously I am well within the rules of this site so save your weak motions on what I should and shouldn't do you're a nobody.

I'm going to tell you this publicly and not via PM:

You're being rude, abrasive, and unnecessarily hostile. These posts could be taken as flaming. I haven't infracted anyone on the ATD board because I like to think a level of respect is here.

This is coming from a GM who had your team either in 2nd or 3rd place and certainly ahead of the team you're playing. But you making an argument like this certainly isn't going to help garner you votes from GMs that may be on the fence.

 

[Stoneberg]

I may take some time to argue on behalf of Mark when he's in Prague (*******!) because I know he'd like a chance at a playoff run here.

Probably only if raleh starts hammering his team though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think Cincinatti had the two biggest advantages in this series - better defensemen top to bottom, and the best sniper (Geoffrion) in the series.

Raleh built a team noteworthy for having no weaknesses except behind the bench (depending on your view of Cherry's coaching), but no real standout strengths other than in goals. But to be honest, I'm not sure who I'd rather have in goal in the playoffs.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

There was so much parity in this division... it was ridiculous. All 5 teams had serious consideration for 1st place.

This was the most difficult division for me to rank.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Forgot another strength of raleh's team actually - physical play from the defensemen. This should help make up for the fact that the group as a whole is a bit less talented than their Cincinatti counterparts. Cherry will of course encourage this way of playing. Both coaches in this series love hard-hitting hockey. In that sense, raleh has constructed a team that Cherry would like.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I think Cincinatti had the two biggest advantages in this series - better defensemen top to bottom, and the best sniper (Geoffrion) in the series.

Raleh built a team noteworthy for having no weaknesses except behind the bench (depending on your view of Cherry's coaching), but no real standout strengths other than in goals. But to be honest, I'm not sure who I'd rather have in goal in the playoffs.

I think Hall has to have a slight edge just because of longevity, but I think these two are pretty close.

 

[Stoneberg]

Parent is likely the best playoff performer (peak) in this series, and I think the other ones that are debateable are also on the Fireworks. Feel free to educate me if I'm overlooking someone on raleh's team, this was just a quick observation.

 

[raleh]

I may take some time to argue on behalf of Mark when he's in Prague (*******!) because I know he'd like a chance at a playoff run here.

Probably only if raleh starts hammering his team though.

I'm not quite home yet, and will only have about half an hour to make an argument today. I don't want to do too much of this on my phone because I have the world's worst vision. In fairness to Mark, I will post once tonight about the series and then leave it the way it is so that he won't get short changed based on me being able to make arguments while he's traveling

The keys will be, since we'll have home ice, getting the Dons out against Geoffrion and the rest of Cinci's shoot first ask questions later first line.
We, like any other team, have no definitive answer for Robinson. He's the best player in the series. But this is a team that will go about their business, try to wear him out, take their lumps, and just keep coming on waves. As our coach always says, the last thing you want to do is wake Robinson up by running at him with goons. We will also try to jump Clapper or Vadnais into the rush whenever we can, as I think that we can capitalize on Stanley's lack of mobility on the other side of the ice.

The other big goal: keep Kamensky the **** away from Boomer!

 

[Stoneberg]

Fair enough raleh.

(lol the fact that you can call them the Don's is a major plus in my eyes. )

 

[BillyShoe1721]

I will also do some arguing on Mark's behalf.