ATD2011 Jim Robson Semi: (1) Kimberly Dynamiters vs. (5) San Jose Sharks

[Stoneberg]

Kimberly Dynamiters

Head Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Marc Crawford

Roy Conacher-Syl Apps Sr.-Gordie Drillon
Keith Tkachuk-Dale Hawerchuk-Billy Boucher
Frank "Pud" Glass-Ernie Russell-Bruce Stuart
Wayne Merrick-Ryan Kesler-Ron Stewart

Spares: RW Billy Gilmour, W Bruce Ridpath

Denis Potvin-Ken Morrow
Hobey Baker-Dunc Munro
Sandis Ozolinsh-Al Arbour
D/F Walter Smaill

Dominik Hasek
Ryan Miller

PP1: Tkachuk-Hawerchuk-Boucher-Potvin-Ozolinsh
PP2: Conacher-Apps-Drillon-Baker-Munro

PK1: Kesler-Stewart-Arbour-Morrow
PK2: Merrick-Glass-Munro-Potvin


San Jose Sharks

Head Coach: John Tortorella
Assistant Coach: Dan Bylsma
Captain: Sid Abel
Assistant Captains: Owen Nolan, Jamie Langenbrunner, Shea Weber

ROSTER
Abel - Petrov - B. Hextall
Mats Naslund - Malkin - Nolan
Andreychuk - Getzlaf - March
Roberts - Peca - Langenbrunner
Spares: Semenko, Kopitar

Baun - Orr
Daneyko - Jovanovski
Suter - Weber
Spares: Green

Durnan
Thomas

PP1:
Andreychuk - Petrov - B. Hextall
Abel - Orr

PP2:
Roberts - Malkin - Nolan
Weber - Jovanovski

PK1:
Peca - Langenbrunner
Baun - Orr

PK2:
Getzlaf - Nolan
Daneyko - Suter
​

Click to read more...

 

[Derick*]

Cinderella run continues.

 

[vecens24]

Sorry to keep tagging on your team Cog because it's nothing personal at all. I refuse to vote for a team with Dan Bylsma as a coach after watching him get thoroughly outclassed by Guy Boucher, a first year coach. It's sickening how awful he is in my mind at the moment.

 

[Derick*]

He's an assistant coach there to help with defense.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Even if bylsma is terrible, how can having a listed assistant coach make a coaching staff worse unless there is a known chemistry issue? Even if bylsma is no better than a faceless generic assistant "yes man" to the head coach (which is what i assume teams with no listed assistant have), then he would become merely a nonfactor.

That said, I do think Kimberely has the edge at both head coach and assistant coach.

 

[vecens24]

I just think after last night I am holding grudges because he sucks terribly. But I'll find a way to vote very unbiased.

 

[Derick*]

Lost by one goal with 17.4million in cap space injured?

 

[seventieslord]

a faceless generic assistant "yes man" to the head coach (which is what i assume teams with no listed assistant have),.

good point!

 

[vecens24]

Lost by one goal with 17.4million in cap space injured?

Trust me when I say we should have won the series and would have had he been able make adjustments. He is physically incapable of it.

Talent wise we were even teams I think because of our defense and goaltending being better, but obviously there being a massive forward gap. Bylsma couldn't figure out the 1-3-1, and refused to change a defensive bottom pairing that so obviously wasn't effective, and we ended up getting burned on the same exact play from the same exact two players against that same pairing. It's embarrassing. Plus lest we forget the only PP goal we scored all series is with Eric Tangradi in front of the net, who played one game all series. Why not make the attempt to go back to it after the PP floundered at around 1-27 after Game 5. Trust me when I say I'm not the only one vocal about this on the Pens board.

 

[vecens24]

By the way I'm saying that I think he is worse than a faceless ATD level assistant

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

By the way I'm saying that I think he is worse than a faceless ATD level assistant

Even if you think he doesn't add anything, do you really think he's incapable of just doing what Torts tells him to do?

 

[vecens24]

Even if you think he doesn't add anything, do you really think he's incapable of just doing what Torts tells him to do?

I am sure he can probably do that. And Torts being a strong minded guy helps.

 

[Derick*]

By the way I'm saying that I think he is worse than a faceless ATD level assistant

No offense, but I think statements like this make it clear you're speaking out of frustration for the cocah of your own team that was just eliminated.

The Dynamiters have a lot of talent but the Sharks will win this series.

 

[vecens24]

It's not frustration trust me you can look through my history of posts.... I've thought for the last two years he should be fired.

 

[Sturminator]

I have to say, the matchup of top units here looks bad for Kimberly. San Jose's top line is highly physical, while Kimberly's is just the opposite. I can imagine the Dynamiters having a serious puckwinning and puck possession problem in this matchup, which doesn't bode well.

Bobby Orr is still Bobby Orr.

Dale Hawerchuk creates a matchup problem on the second units, and obviously Hasek is superior to Durnan. Really not an easy series to call.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think Kimberley is the better team overall, despite the deficiencies of the top line. But having a top line that is a defensive liability (because of nobody to cover for Drillon defensively when he cherrypicks) and a second line that relies entirely on Dale Hawerchuk for backchecking would be really problematic against Bobby Orr.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Just pointing out that SJ's top 6 isn't exactly great defensively either. Not as bad as Kimberly's, but still not good. I can see Potvin giving SJ's top 6 fits as well.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Roy Conacher vs. Sid Abel

Different styles of players obviously:

Conacher, TTG- 8
Abel, TTG- 3

Conacher, TTA- 2
Abel, TTA- 8

About the only relevant comparison is point finishes, and Conacher has more of them- six- plus a #1 finish. Edge Conacher.

Apps vs. Petrov

Not really much of a comparison to be made here. Apps is a recognized top-100 player of all-time, both by the media/execs and the folks here. Meanwhile, Petrov has been on a steady drop since ATD 10. Edge Apps.

Drillon vs. B. Hextall

Two very, very similar players. Hextall has TTG of 1,1,2,5,5,10, Drillon 1,3,4,4,5,7. Draw.

Tkachuk vs. Nolan

LW vs. RW, but they're the physical presences on each line, whereas Boucher/Naslund provide the offense. Anyway, very similar players. Neither has a Cup, neither has a great playoff resume, neither was a dominant player- there's a single TTP finish between them. They're there to hit and score goals in front, and Tkachuk was simply the better scorer. Edge Tkachuk

Hawerchuk vs. Malkin

In my mind, the ultimate longevity vs. peak debate. Hawerchuk is considered one of the best centers ever, but never managed a 1st place finish- let alone a 1st and a 2nd- in points, nor the individual hardware. But Malkin didn't have Gretzky and Lemieux to contend with, either. On the flip side, Malkin may have Conn Smythe, but on top of the short resume, he's also damn mercurial. We have to give the edge to Hawerchuk right now, but that could change.

Boucher vs. Naslund

I've been ragged on a lot for having Boucher in my top six owing to his short peak, but in this series at least, it's not a major issue.

After all, Naslund's best streak of play comes down to six years, and in that time, he was only truly elite for two of them- a 6th and 7th place points finish in the playoffs (1986 and 1987) and an 8th place points/assists finish in the regular season (both in 1986).

Boucher had a run of four elite seasons in which he was top-ten in goals each year, top-ten in points three times, and top-five in assists twice.

Neither Naslund nor Boucher are ideal 2nd liners, I'll admit. Both are complimentary talents. But Boucher was simply better at complimenting his linemates, and in this series, I can't see why that would change. Hawerchuk and Tkachuk are better linemates than Nolan and Malkin. Edge Boucher

Total- Kimberley 5, 1 draw.

Do the deficiencies really play a major role when the individual pieces in the top six are almost all superior to their peers on the Sharks? Are we really going to argue that adding together three better players makes them worse? As Billy_Shoe pointed out, it's hard for Cognition to make great issue out of my top six's defensive issues when his own is just as likely to be scored against.

Re: Orr. Orr doesn't worry me as much as he might if I had a weaker #1 D; in almost any other match up I'd have the clear edge in that department. But here's the thing: Orr gets to make an impact, at most, 30 minutes. Dominik Hasek, however, plays the whole game. I personally think they're a saw-off.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

There is absolutely no way that Roy Conacher was a better overall player than Sid Abel.

 

[hfboardsuser]

There is absolutely no way that Roy Conacher was a better overall player than Sid Abel.

I could give that one to Cognition. 4-1-1 then.

 

[Leafs Forever]

I'm not buying Hextall vs Drillon based on just goals, either. One should look at playmaking and overall offense as well as intangibles, since that does look to be rather in Hextall's favor considering Drillon's defciency in that area.

 

[jarek]

Hextall is miles and light years ahead of Drillon as a player.

 

[Derick*]

I have to say, the matchup of top units here looks bad for Kimberly. San Jose's top line is highly physical, while Kimberly's is just the opposite. I can imagine the Dynamiters having a serious puckwinning and puck possession problem in this matchup, which doesn't bode well.

Bobby Orr is still Bobby Orr.

Dale Hawerchuk creates a matchup problem on the second units, and obviously Hasek is superior to Durnan. Really not an easy series to call.

I can imagine - by which I mean I know - the Sharks will dominate puck posession. This will not bode well for a team with such a defensively libalous top end offense. I will be getting a lot of high quality shots on net, and Hasek may be the most talented goaltender of all time, but a goalie can only do so much, which is why he was never able to bring a non-Detroit dynasty team a cup.

All of my first line forwards are defensively responcible. Abel and Petrov were both the defensive anchor for their slightly (perhaps unfairly?) more famous wingers. My only defensive weakness is my second forward line, which like I said, won't need to take any defensive zone faceoffs. My 1st, 3rd, and 4th line will split ES defensive zone faceoffs 20/20/60.

I think Kimberley is the better team overall, despite the deficiencies of the top line. But having a top line that is a defensive liability (because of nobody to cover for Drillon defensively when he cherrypicks) and a second line that relies entirely on Dale Hawerchuk for backchecking would be really problematic against Bobby Orr.

It isn't going to be problematic. It's going to be cataclysmic. Line by line this match-up is a wash. Factor in how the particular compositions counter eachother and Kimberley will be shelled. Sharks in 6.

 

[jarek]

Also, why is there talk of the Sharks having a deficiency, at least on the first line, defensively? I think Abel - Petrov - Hextall is a very strong unit defensively.. I'd feel pretty comfortable using this line power on power in many matchups.

 

[Derick*]

My analysis of the Weber/Suter pairing from my last thread:

My last pairing is better than some of you may realize. Nashville puts out a competitive team every year, often as the 4th or 5th seed, and just made the second round. They do this despite spending way below the cap and having almost no offense - a remarkable feat.

Who makes this possible? Weber and Suter, two of the best defenseman in the league. That's why they're Olympians, and Olympians on the best two teams in the tournament, and were two of the best players in the tournament. That's why Weber was one of two defenseman selected for the Olympics all-star team. That's why Weber just got a Norris nom and will probably win it - yet a lot of Nashville fans are saying Suter should be there. I sincereley believe these are two of the best players in the league, and that's why I drafted them. I drafted them because I went by who I would have drafted had it been a real team, not pragmatically by who would be the easiest sell.

Nashville Predators Leading Scorer

10-11: Martin Erat, 50 points (Weber has 48)
09-10: Steve Sullivan, 51 points (Weber has 43)
08-09: Dumont, 65 (Weber has 53)

How many competitive teams do you know of where a defenseman is a couple points behind the leading scorer each year?

...who is also one of the best defensive defenseman in the league, nearing the top of the league in blocked shots, hits, etc.