ATD #9 Lineup Assassination Thread

pitseleh

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Jul 30, 2005
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If this is where we're doing this, then here's my team. And I'll keep reviews to this thread.

OTTAWA RCAF FLYERS

GMs: raleh and God Bless Canada
Coach: Tommy Gorman
Captain: Milt Schmidt
Alternate captain: Larry Robinson
Alternate captain: Hap Day
Alternate captain: Johnny Bucyk


FORWARDS
Big...Bad...Bruins line: #9 Johnny Bucyk-#15 Milt Schmidt-#8 Cam Neely
Second line: #27 Shayne Corson-#25 Jacques Lemaire-#18 Steve Larmer
Two-way line: #35 Mike McPhee-#11 Wayne Merrick-#20 Bobby Rousseau
Grind line: #12 Brenden Morrow-#14 Glen Skov-#13 Blair Russell

DEFENCEMEN
#19 Larry Robinson-#3 Clarence "Hap" Day
#6 Doug "Diesel" Mohns-#5 Bill Barilko
#10 Ted Harris-#7 Brad Maxwell

GOALTENDERS
#30 Gerry "Cheesy" Cheevers
#31 Hugh "Old Eagle Eyes" Lehman​

GBC deserves a review for all the hard work he's put into this thread.

- Enough has been said about your top line that I won't say anything else.

- I love the makeup of your second line. They won't be the highest scoring second line by any stretch of the imagination, but they bring everything you could want in a line and can be out on the ice in any situation you could dream of.

- Your third line is quite good defensively but offensively they won't do a lot. McPhee was a 40 point player in the eighties, Merrick was the same in the seventies to the early eighties with a couple of 60 point seasons sprinkled in. Rousseau is quite strong offensively though for a defensively strong third liner.

- Fourth line is a strong combination of toughness and defensive ability. Their good enough that they won't only be used sparingly like some fourth lines.

- Love the top pairing. Day might not be the best #2, but his style complements Robinson very well and they'll be effective against nearly any type of top-line.

- I'm a big Mohns fan too, but I don't see Barilko as being a very good #4. He only has four and half seasons in the NHL and was only the third or fourth best defenseman on his team. He does have the post-season success, but in an ATD context I see him more as a bottom-pairing guy.

- Bottom pairing is solid albeit unspectacular.

Overall, I think you have a team built for low-scoring, tight checking games. All four of your lines can play at both ends of the ice and your defense can as well. I'm imagining there will be some teams in the Hewitt division that are not looking forward to playing your team in the playoffs.
 

pitseleh

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The problem is that although I agree with you that Tonelli is a better fit for the top line, Bobrov on the second line is a bad combination of players. All three of Bobrov, Federko and Middleton were guys who liked to carry the puck and make plays, and none of them was physical. Bobrov was a cherry picker and Federko wasn't much of a backchecker, leaving Middleton as the defensive conscience of the line - not a great situation. There's a ton of offensive talent in Bobrov - Federko - Middleton, but I don't see those players gelling well, at all.

That's true enough. I wonder if the lineup would work better like this (obviously depending on the matchup):

Tonelli-Gretzky-Cook
Murdoch-Federko-Middleton
Bobrov-Goyette-Sandstrom

Murdoch brings some grit, size, and defensive awareness to the second unit, and it gives Bobrov a strong defensive center and a gritty to cover up for his offensive adventures. Some teams would really struggle to contain all three of those lines while it leaves Marcotte-Kasper-Preston intact to have the primary defensive duties. It would very much be dependent on who Lada is playing as well though.
 

Nalyd Psycho

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Just curious what you mean by the highlighted statement? Are you referring to the line's ability to move the puck up the ice? Obviously Stewart is slow, but I feel both Roenick and Cook are quite fast, and certainly skilled enough to carry the disk into the zone.

Cook wasn't a liability, but from what I can gather, his play without the puck was much more important than his play with it. Boucher and Cook were the primary puck handlers. Roenick is good, not great, but good. His bigger problem is that he isn't a great playmaker. With Cook you have a great cycler, corner worker, two-way player and just all-round miscellaneous guy. Stewart is an amazing goal scorer and physical presence but not much else. Roenick is also a physical goal scorer, but offers less of that and more of other skills. He can play the role of puck carrier and playmaker, but, he's miscast in the role. If Roenick and Leetch work together on the role, then the line will be very successful.
 

nik jr

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Sep 25, 2005
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That's true enough. I wonder if the lineup would work better like this (obviously depending on the matchup):

Tonelli-Gretzky-Cook
Murdoch-Federko-Middleton
Bobrov-Goyette-Sandstrom

Murdoch brings some grit, size, and defensive awareness to the second unit, and it gives Bobrov a strong defensive center and a gritty to cover up for his offensive adventures. Some teams would really struggle to contain all three of those lines while it leaves Marcotte-Kasper-Preston intact to have the primary defensive duties. It would very much be dependent on who Lada is playing as well though.
i've thought through many line combinations. one advantage i have in that is that several of my forwards could play different positions.

middleton started as a LW in NY, sandstrom could also play either wing. marcotte and bobrov apparently played all 3.

i've thought about:
marcotte--federko-middleton
bobrov--goyette--sandstrom
murdoch--kasper--preston

marcotte was very gritty and a great forechecker, and was decent offensively, so he would make an effective digger.
murdoch could replace him on the defensive line. but i think your idea is better. murdoch was a good checker, but i think marcotte is a safer bet, especially if i have to go against howe, lafleur, bathgate or geoffrion.

i have been thinking of ways to give goyette a bigger role. i may use your suggestion.
thanks pitseleh.
 

reckoning

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Jan 4, 2005
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Here's my team, any criticisms or suggestions would be appreciated:

Ottawa 67s:

Head Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: Syl Apps
Alternates: Gordie Howe, King Clancy

Anatoli Firsov - Syl Apps - Gordie Howe
Gaye Stewart - Duke Keats - Vladimir Martinec
Craig Ramsay - Gregg Sheppard - Bengt Gustafsson
Vic Stasiuk- Dale Hunter - Claude Lemieux
Jimmy Roberts Dave Christian

Jimmy Thomson - King Clancy
Jan Suchy - Barry Beck
Keith Magnuson - Doug Crossman
Roman Hamrlik

Georges Vezina
Roger Crozier

PP#1 Firsov-Keats-Howe; Suchy-Beck
PP#2 Stewart-Apps-Martinec; Thomson-Clancy

PK#1 Ramsay-Sheppard; Thomson-Beck
PK#2 Apps-Gustafsson; Clancy-Crossman
 

Diving Pokecheck*

Guest
Anatoli Firsov - Syl Apps - Gordie Howe
Gaye Stewart - Duke Keats - Vladimir Martinec
Craig Ramsay - Gregg Sheppard - Bengt Gustafsson
Vic Stasiuk- Dale Hunter - Claude Lemieux
Jimmy Roberts Dave Christian

Jimmy Thomson - King Clancy
Jan Suchy - Barry Beck
Keith Magnuson - Doug Crossman
Roman Hamrlik

Georges Vezina
Roger Crozier
I believe this is the first team whose goalies both have awards named after them. Why didn't you go all the way and get Billy Masterton or Conn Smythe?:)
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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I know! I just need to trade for Maurice Richard and Mark Messier now and I'll be on my way lol.

...This said, I'll LOL when you'll pick Lester B. Pearson... or pick Scott or Rob to take his place.
 

God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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Bentley reunion
Ottawa 67s review...

*A much better entry than the last draft, and much closer to your team from ATD 7, which won a very tough division, and lost in the conference final.
*Likely the most dangerous first line in the draft. FF and I are likely alone in thinking that Howe is the best forward ever. He's partnered with an ultra-skilled, two-way playmaker in Apps. I have some concerns about Firsov's level of competition when he did his damage at the Worlds, but I don't deny his skill level or his place as a credible No. 1 LW in an ATD. (Then again, you could have Jonus Hoglund on that line, and it would still be one of the draft's best).
*I like the second line's make-up. Keats is such a strong second line centre with his skill level and toughness. Stewart's very underrated; gave him a long look for the second line LW spot on our team. Martinec should have all sorts of room to weave his magic on that line.
*We're both big fans of Gregg Sheppard. Of course, my appreciation for him stems from his playing days down here in Estevan. Go Bruins! Solid centre for the third line. Only thing you might want is a little more toughness to mix things up. All three guys are excellent defensively (especially Ramsay), but they're all cut from the same cloth.
*Love that fourth line. From the perspective of building a fourth line with a purpose and a direction, it's the best in the draft. They're all tough and rugged. They bring leadership. They can score. Play them as an energy/momentum line, play them as an agitator line, play them as a decent scoring line. Just play them. Glad they're not in my division, although they are in my conference, and an all Ottawa conference final isn't far-fetched. We just have to escape our divisions.
*Top pairing is excellent. Thomson isn't Hap Day, and Clancy isn't Gus Mortson, and some might think this tandem is a little on the small side, but Thomson and Clancy both bring speed, offensive ability (Thomson finished top 10 in assists twice at a time when defencemen didn't get involved offensively) and some serious pound-for-pound toughness. One day I'll reunite the Mortson-Thomson duo, and boast the best shut-down pairing in the draft.
*Glad that you resisted the temptation to unite Suchy and Clancy. I think size is overrated, but two defencemen that small wouldn't work. I think Barry Beck goes too soon, I don't think he's No. 4-calibre, but he should be okay with Suchy.
*Keith Magnuson is really underrated. Don't know how he'll do against some of the speedsters in your division, like Middleton and Selanne, but Magnuson is ultra-tough in his own end, he clears the front of the net, and nobody will take liberties on your guys with Magnuson on your team.
*You mentioned in another thread your thoughts on the importance of No. 7 d-men. If that's the case, why is Roman Hamrlik there? I don't think there's anything on Roman's resume, outside of his 1995-96 breakthrough (which wasn't sustained) that says ATD worthy.
*Some might not be impressed with Vezina's numbers, but his career came before goalies could leave their feet to make a save. I'm not a big style guy, but that's a big difference-maker. Good, but not great, No. 1, but he won't cost you a series.
*Ruff's done enough to warrant ATD consideration, but he will be outcoached by most teams.

Here's my team, any criticisms or suggestions would be appreciated:

Ottawa 67s:

Head Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: Syl Apps
Alternates: Gordie Howe, King Clancy

Anatoli Firsov - Syl Apps - Gordie Howe
Gaye Stewart - Duke Keats - Vladimir Martinec
Craig Ramsay - Gregg Sheppard - Bengt Gustafsson
Vic Stasiuk- Dale Hunter - Claude Lemieux
Jimmy Roberts Dave Christian

Jimmy Thomson - King Clancy
Jan Suchy - Barry Beck
Keith Magnuson - Doug Crossman
Roman Hamrlik

Georges Vezina
Roger Crozier

PP#1 Firsov-Keats-Howe; Suchy-Beck
PP#2 Stewart-Apps-Martinec; Thomson-Clancy

PK#1 Ramsay-Sheppard; Thomson-Beck
PK#2 Apps-Gustafsson; Clancy-Crossman
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Kingston review...

Posted in the other forum. Went with VanI's roster over FI2's, although you know adjustments will be made.
*The obvious first thing that stands out is their strength up the middle. Nobody beats the 1-2 Lemieux-Yzerman punch. It's the old saying - "If the left one don't get you, the right one will."
*The winger choices are interesting. Leclair might actually work better with Lemieux - the big, strong winger who played a physical but clean game. Bauer adds the speed and defensive presence to that line.
*You take a hit in size if you move Smith to the second line, but Bailey played a hard, physical game, and he'll open up a lot of room.
*Not ideal wingers for Mario and Yzerman, but very, very good wingers who won't hold them back. Goal-scoring won't be an issue for the top two lines.
*Good to see Dick Irvin's overall game finally make its way onto the third line.
*What contribution will the fourth line bring? Shut down line? Third scoring line? Grit line? Token five minute per night line?
*With VanI, you know it's not a matter of if he'll pick an unknown player, but when.
*An interesting defence. No No. 1, and not even an elite No. 2, but three good No. 2's who can chew up 21 or 22 minutes per game. Reardon's the defensive-minded toughie, Murphy's the smart and steady two-way player, and Wilson's the highly-skilled, hard-shooting PP quarterback. Jim Neilson also provides toughness. A Murphy-Neilson tandem will be tough to play against.
*Fuhr's a great big-save, big-game goalie. Will be interesting to watch his interaction with long-time rival Vernon.
*How long will it take for Tikhanov to alienate his team? I've seen him do it in just a few weeks.

Sid Smith - Mario Lemieux (C) - Bobby Bauer
John Leclair - Steve Yzerman (A) - Ace Bailey
George Hay - Dick Irvin, Sr. (A) - Tony Leswick
Ven Alexandrov - Alex Almetov - Konstantin Loktev
Jozef Golonka

Ken Reardon - Doug Wilson
Larry Murphy - Jim Neilson
Vas Pervukhin - Zin Bilyaletdinov
Harry Westwick

Grant Fuhr
Mike Vernon
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Donair City review...

*Perhaps the most unpredictable team in the draft. Nobody saw half of the selections coming.
*They should actually be able to score some goals. First line is potent. Stastny had the second-most points in the 80s. Terrific offensive threat. Anderson is a great clutch scorer. Simmer's a big forward and a natural goal scorer who compliments Stastny's skills perfectly.
*Outstanding speed on the second line. Not sure about the toughness, but great speed and skill. Naslund wasn't big or tough, but nobody intimidated him. Is Cloutier tough enough to handle the grind of this draft.
*I think Tik is best suited to a defensive/two-way line role. On this team, he's going to be asked to be a hard-shooting defensive conscience on a third scoring line. And he'll be the only defensive presence, too, playing with Hemsky and Nilsson.
*Are you expecting any sort of a contribution from the fourth line? They're tough, but that's it. You can't count on them to play against the opponent's top line. They don't have the speed or the hockey sense to survive in the ATD.
*Remember what I said about the biggest "what if" in the draft? Michel Briere officially takes the cake.
*I really like Clapper. I don't know if I would have picked him 30-something, but you have to get the guy you want early in the draft. One of the best all-round forces in the draft.
*The defence goes downhill after that. Reinhart and Routsalainen are ATD worthy, but as third-pairing guys. That second pairing should generate a fair amount of offence. It will also generate a lot of frustration for Hall.
*Redden might be good enough to be a No. 7. Langevin and Gregg are MLD guys. They should not be picked in the ATD. Langevin as a top-pairing guy might be the biggest reach since I've been a part of this thing.
*MB, I take it back. You don't have the worst team defence in the draft. Donair City does.
*Glenn Hall will have his work cut out for him. He'll get a lot of offensive support from a team with three lines that can score, and defencemen like Clapper, Reinhart and Routsalainen who can definitely contribute offensively. But he's got a team in front of him that has a lot of players with little commitment defensively. Good thing that he's one of the best goalies ever.
*Bauer's an icon, but I think he should be an assistant coach, or he should have an assistant. Someone to handle the egos.


Coach: Father David Bauer

Goalies:
Glen Hall
Pete Peeters

Defence:
Dit Clapper-Dave Langevin
Reijo Routsalainen-Paul Reinhart
Wade Redden-Randy Gregg

Forwards:

Charlie Simmer-Peter Stastny-Glenn Anderson
Mats Naslund-Mike Modano-Real Cloutier
Esa Tikkanen-Kent Nilsson-Ales Hemsky
Bob Probert-Kevin McLelland-Kelly Buchberger

Spares:
Gary Nylund
Dave Semenko
Michel Briere
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
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marcotte was very gritty and a great forechecker, and was decent offensively, so he would make an effective digger.
murdoch could replace him on the defensive line. but i think your idea is better. murdoch was a good checker, but i think marcotte is a safer bet, especially if i have to go against howe, lafleur, bathgate or geoffrion.

I agree with you here about Marcotte, nik. I think that's a good decision. There are basically two reasons Springfield is a left wing lock team:

1. Teemu Selanne was available in the late 5th and after drafting him it was clear our left wings on the first two lines would end up being support players.

2. There is a ludicrous amount of talent at right wing in our division. Just off the top of my head, I know that Howe, Cook, Geoffrion, LaFleur, Cournoyer, Bathgate and Selanne are in the division. Of course, the Isotopes don't have to defend the latter two, but still - it's a frightening collection of players at the position. Bill Barber wasn't the best value pick Rick and I made, but he might have been the most important to the composition of the team, given that we won't be matching lines and he'll generally go against other first liners, as he did in Philly. There are very few left wings with Barber's combination of strength, speed and checking ability who can also score. He's got his work cut out for him.
 
Last edited:

Leaf Lander

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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
FF and I are likely alone in thinking that Howe is the best forward ever.

FissionFire
We'll make them see the truth one of these days GBC.

he may be the most complete player in history. Def #2 behind gretzky or Orr.

Gretzky dominated offensivley for a decade and orr was decades ahead of everyone else and he played the D like no one else before him.
 

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