ATD 2021 REDUX

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Ryan Getzlaf, C

 

[The Macho King]

Corey Perry, RW

 

[VanIslander]

The duo go back to back. Fitting.

 

[tony d]

Mats Sundin C and Joe Mullen RW

 

[The Macho King]

Cooney Weiland, C

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Tommy Ivan, Coach

 

[tinyzombies]

Nicklas Backstrom, C

 

[VanIslander]

Flabbergasted.

My top-3 picks remain this round with 4 of 5 prelims in the books.

Huh.

 

[Claude The Fraud]

Jiri Holik

Edit: Sorry guys, I just read about the Jaroslav Halak sing and I mixed up the two.

 

[VanIslander]

Henderson selects Bob Goldham, the 5-time Stanley Cup champion defenseman renowned for his shot blocking.

... Tall and powerful, Goldham was a deceptive type of player. He was faster than he appeared and considerably tougher than his outwardly passive nature suggested. .... the quintessential defenseman, doing his job with a minimum of fuss and fanfare... Employing exquisite timing, Bob would dauntlessly throw his body in front of dangerous shots...

Though he could rush the puck when the opportunity presented itself, Goldham as best known as a defensive defenseman and skilled shotblockeer.

 

[tinyzombies]

Henderson selects Bob Goldham, the 5-time Stanley Cup champion defenseman renowned for his shot blocking.

Crawford or Goldham is an interesting comparison

 

[VanIslander]

Crawford or Goldham is an interesting comparison

Your 10th round Crawford
Vs.
My 13th round Goldham

Yeah, I traded Goldham away in ATD 2021 because there was a demand from two GMs who saw his underappreciated status.

Crawford? I have been here since 2004 and never seriously considered him in a draft. The "husky" defenseman won two cups in Boston and was an all star during the war years. He is third pairing material imo because there isn't one wow thing about him.

Goldham was a RENOWNED shotblocker and on FiVE Stanley Cup championship teams.

I don't see how Crawford goes several rounds before Goldham. And I never have.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Your 10th round Crawford
Vs.
My 13th round Goldham

Yeah, I traded Goldham away in ATD 2021 because there was a demand from two GMs who saw his underappreciated status.

Crawford? I have been here since 2004 and never seriously considered him in a draft. The "husky" defenseman won two cups in Boston and was an all star during the war years. He is third pairing material imo because there isn't one wow thing about him.

Goldham was a RENOWNED shotblocker and on FiVE Stanley Cup championship teams.

I don't see how Crawford goes several rounds before Goldham. And I never have.

Crawford goes fairly high now, but he goes where he does because his All-Star record is very good for a non-HHOF, definitely better than Goldham. He doesn't have the one defining quality like Goldham's shot blocking though.

Crawford is probably a tier above Goldham. 3 rounds is too much for a difference of a single tier, but that's what happens when teams are finishing up their 4th defensemen - it's the time of the draft when a lot of teams are just looking at forwards after finishing up their top 4, so some guys slip through the cracks.

 

[The Macho King]

Crawford goes fairly high now, but he goes where he does because his All-Star record is very good for a non-HHOF, definitely better than Goldham. He doesn't have the one defining quality like Goldham's shot blocking though.

Crawford is probably a tier about Goldham. 3 rounds is too much for a difference of a single tier, but that's what happens when teams are finishing up their 4th defensemen - it's the time of the draft when a lot of teams are just looking at forwards after finishing up their top 4, so some guys slip through the cracks.

As far as draft strategy goes, after the first say five(?) rounds, I think to an extent raw value goes out the window in favor of fit and roles.

I won't even pretend to know enough about the relative differences between Crawford and Goldham, but I do think there is a place to value the role a player brings (in Goldham's instance, a shot blocker who is going to eat some minutes and PK time) differently than you would a "better" all-around defenseman at this point in the draft.

 

[VanIslander]

Better?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Crawford All-Star record:
38-39: 8th
40-41: 8th
41-42: 4th
42-43: 3rd (partial war year)
43-44: 6th (war year)
44-45: 6th (war year)
45-46: 1st (partial war year? I'm not actually sure if any notable dmen missed this year)
46-47: 5th
47-48: 7th

Goldham All-Star record:
45-46: 7th
53-54: 5th
54-55: 3rd
55-56: 8th

All-Star voting records for defensemen (1930-31 to 1967-68)

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How about we throw in another RD that's generally ranked near Crawford and Goldham...Where do you guys rank Derian Hatcher among this group? It feels like he has to be above Goldham, not sure about Crawford, but his skillset makes him extra valuable IMO...super physical, leadership, great PKer

 

[The Macho King]

How about we throw in another RD that's generally ranked near Crawford and Goldham...Where do you guys rank Derian Hatcher among this group? It feels like he has to be above Goldham, not sure about Crawford, but his skillset makes him extra valuable IMO...super physical, leadership, great PKer

There's actually another guy I really want to discuss in this context but he hasn't come up yet.

 

[tinyzombies]

There's actually another guy I really want to discuss in this context but he hasn't come up yet.

Crawford must have played on the second pairing when Clapper was still there.

The notes on his profile indicate that he was Norris worthy one year after the war

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

How about we throw in another RD that's generally ranked near Crawford and Goldham...Where do you guys rank Derian Hatcher among this group? It feels like he has to be above Goldham, not sure about Crawford, but his skillset makes him extra valuable IMO...super physical, leadership, great PKer

I have long said that I have Harvey Pulford, Lionel Hitchman, and Derian Hatcher as basically equals and very similar style players. Stars of their day, but a level below the real superstars. Does that make him above Crawford? Maybe? Crawford seems more well-rounded though, not that he's well rounded, just he's more rounded than the rest of these guys, who are basically elite specialists.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Man, Jack Crawford's All-Star record (1st Team, 2nd Team, and what would be an additional 2nd Team if the vote tabulators used any form of modern points system) is really good, even if partly war influenced.

 

[tabness]

Just like Larmer, I just can't quit picking Esa Tikkanen. Dude had legit star level skills, though he mostly embraced a role as a checker, obviously turning that talent on when needed in a big way notably during the turn of the nineties (Edmonton still had a lot of good players then and Tikkanen was among the very best). Can play in all situations, in all forward positions. I'm going to have another run with the Tikkanen • Yzerman • Kurri line on this team.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

We'll start off by taking the guy who I thought TDMM was going to pick, although Ivan wasn't much of a surprise either, I'm guessing when you said you wished you had 2 picks this round, this was the guy you were thinking of...

Larry Aurie, RW

Aurie will play on our 2nd line with Marchand and Cowley. Cowley should be able to concentrate solely on offense with those two on his wings.

Next pick coming shortly...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

We'll start off by taking the guy who I thought TDMM was going to pick, although Ivan wasn't much of a surprise either, I'm guessing when you said you wished you had 2 picks this round, this was the guy you were thinking of...

Larry Aurie, RW

Aurie will play on our 2nd line with Marchand and Cowley. Cowley should be able to concentrate solely on offense with those two on his wings.

Next pick coming shortly...

Yes, I would have rather had Ivan/Aurie than anyone available in the 12th round. Putting together a 2nd real life line seemed fun, even if I thought it's a bit high for Aurie in general.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Chicago selects Tony Leswick, LW/RW