At this point (July 2014), are we a better team than October 2013?

[Andy]

Considering Montreal's biggest problem last year was scoring goals, I'm not sure if they improved.

I think the bottom 6 is much more balanced this year that it was at the start of last season and so is the bottom pairing on defense. Gilbert is good, I like him, but I'm not sure if he will be a drastic improvement over Gorges. The biggest wild card on D is Emelin. If he plays better on his proper side than the defense is looking good. If he continues to struggle like he did last year even with the switch, the Canadiens will once again have a flawed top 4 on D.

Whether or not the team is better will depend on Galchenyuk, Eller, Beaulieu and Gallagher taking the next step in their developments. If they stagnate, the Canadiens will probably have the same goal scoring issues they had last season before the Vanek trade.

I don't think PAP covers the collective goalscoring of Gionta, Briere (who I disliked, but still produced decently) and Vanek.

In short, whether or not the team is better depends on Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Emelin improving upon their performances last. In the case of the former 4 players, each need to take the next step in their development.

also, there is always the enigma that is Bourque, perhaps he awakens and solves the goal scoring issues.

One thing though, the Canadiens after Markov and Subban had terrible offensive contribution from their D core. Perhaps adding Gilbert and a fulltime Beaulieu to the lineup provides the Canadiens more scoring from the backend which is a huge bonus for a team that struggles to score up front.

 

[DenverHabsFan]

No more boat anchor contracts on unproductive 35+ forwards.

Must be nice for our prospects to see that there is room for them. Can't wait for camp!

 

[Slyburger]

Indeed we do.

We need to add one more RW player and we are set.

I feel like we can contend however I will not be disappointed if we have a little slump since there is a transition going on.

Sekac is a RW and Bergevin says he's expecting him to fight for a Top 9 spot.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

It's a younger and bigger lineup, it's what we all wanted. If we could stay away from injuries and stuff like that we will be fine

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Assuming Cakes develop along expected line and convert well to the NHL, I personally think we might be better than during the playoffs. If only because we are trying much less to fit squares into round holes.

R/L Ds are are settled. Everybody plays on his side. No more Bouillon or Gorges on the Power Play.
- We have a 2nd RW. It's not making up for the loss of Vanek, but I'll take it.

If Cakes develops well, our team might just be more.. natural overall, if you see what I mean.

 

[Natey]

Sekac is a RW and Bergevin says he's expecting him to fight for a Top 9 spot.

With whats left on the market, Sekac or Andrighetto should be able to match the production of those guys. Maybe a guy like Whitney or Alfreddson could hit 40-50 points, but most of the other names are 25-30 point guys.

There's a good chance one of those two players will take the ball and run with it.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Having a better line up than last year doesn't mean much since other teams can improve to. The question should be "are we becoming one of the best team in the league" and I don't think so, actually far from it.

Also saying we are becoming better because our youngsters are getting older and more experienced doesn't mean much either.

We should stop looking at our line up internally but we have to see if we are getting closer to the best teams in the league.

 

[Sorinth]

Obviously big years from young could change things pretty drastically. But none seem like sure things to be impact players so I went with no. The main reason being there was a lot more players coming off breakout/strong seasons in 13 whereas this year almost everybody had a down year last season.

Think about it, Eller and PK had huge breakouts, we had two high end rookies, one coming off a Calder nominee and the other a 3rd overall choice. Markov proved he was healthy and finished top-5 in D scoring. Therrien had us playing an up tempo system that played to our strengths. The only questions/concerns were whether Briere could replace Ryder's offence properly, and whether the "grit" players like Parros, Murray would be competent enough to take regular shifts.

This year there are big question marks about how productive all our centers can be, the Gally's didn't really develop much last year, we have even less firepower up front since PAP has to replace both Briere and Gionta's offence (Or when comparing to 13 both Ryder and Gionta's offence). We have no idea whether Therrien is going to run with a balanced offensive system or use DD's line as the primary/only offensive line.

 

[optimus2861]

We have a much better structured team right now than we did in October. I even think it is better in structure than the playoffs team.

• We now have a potential tough-minutes-eating #4C in Malhotra instead of the needs-exploitation-matchup #4C in Briere. This will allow Therrien to deploy the 4th line with confidence in defensive situations, in turn opening up easier matchups for the DD/Max duo.
• We finally have a balanced LHD/RHD lineup. The success of which will turn on Emelin's ability to show he can be trusted in the #2 LHD role after struggling mightily on his wrong side all last year.
• We will have an excellent puck-moving defenceman on the third pair with Beaulieu's emergence. In fact we now have 3-4 solid puck-moving D in the top 6, which should greatly help our anemic breakouts and zone clears, provided Therrien adjusts his coaching strategy to match.
• With Gilbert & Beaulieu available for second-unit PP duty, we should be able to ease the PP workload on Markov in particular, and to a lesser extent PK.
• No frigging black-hole liabilities on defence! Let Bouillon retire, MB!
• Yes we lost Vanek and his 30 goals, and Gionta's 18, and Parenteau doesn't fully make up for that. I would far sooner trust the continued play of Galchenyuk & Gallagher and now Parenteau's contributions, than the declining play of Gionta and disinterested play (to be charitable) of Vanek.

I don't see anyone else in the east who has improved, so I see no reason we can't compete, with this lineup, for at least a spot in the final four again next year.

 

[overlords]

Considering Montreal's biggest problem last year was scoring goals, I'm not sure if they improved.

I think the bottom 6 is much more balanced this year that it was at the start of last season and so is the bottom pairing on defense. Gilbert is good, I like him, but I'm not sure if he will be a drastic improvement over Gorges. The biggest wild card on D is Emelin. If he plays better on his proper side than the defense is looking good. If he continues to struggle like he did last year even with the switch, the Canadiens will once again have a flawed top 4 on D.

Whether or not the team is better will depend on Galchenyuk, Eller, Beaulieu and Gallagher taking the next step in their developments. If they stagnate, the Canadiens will probably have the same goal scoring issues they had last season before the Vanek trade.

I don't think PAP covers the collective goalscoring of Gionta, Briere (who I disliked, but still produced decently) and Vanek.

In short, whether or not the team is better depends on Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Emelin improving upon their performances last. In the case of the former 4 players, each need to take the next step in their development.

also, there is always the enigma that is Bourque, perhaps he awakens and solves the goal scoring issues.

One thing though, the Canadiens after Markov and Subban had terrible offensive contribution from their D core. Perhaps adding Gilbert and a fulltime Beaulieu to the lineup provides the Canadiens more scoring from the backend which is a huge bonus for a team that struggles to score up front.

Don't worry so much about the goals. Compare last season's roster with the season before. One of those was a much better goal scoring team and the roster changes didn't have much to do with it.

Never thought the problem with the current habs was forwards. The habs rarely get a good breakout, and when you have markov and subban on your team, that's not acceptable. We always look like we're breaking out for the first time as a team. There's no chemistry there. Compare it to even the rangers and we look like a pee-wee team. I think not starting the year with franky boo/murray in our top 6 will help a lot on it's own. That's a lot of possession that was given up voluntarily by icing a worse roster.

I think the improvements on D will make up for any losses in forwards. How much we improve will depend on the growth of the kids.

 

[Sorinth]

Don't worry so much about the goals. Compare last season's roster with the season before. One of those was a much better goal scoring team and the roster changes didn't have much to do with it.

Never thought the problem with the current habs was forwards. The habs rarely get a good breakout, and when you have markov and subban on your team, that's not acceptable. We always look like we're breaking out for the first time as a team. There's no chemistry there. Compare it to even the rangers and we look like a pee-wee team. I think not starting the year with franky boo/murray in our top 6 will help a lot on it's own. That's a lot of possession that was given up voluntarily by icing a worse roster.

I think the improvements on D will make up for any losses in forwards. How much we improve will depend on the growth of the kids.

The problem isn't that we had Bouillon/Murray it's that even when Markov and Subban are on the ice we struggle with breakouts more than we should. We rely way too much on stretch passes instead of of breaking out as a team with short passes. That's a system/coaching problem more than a personnel problem, though certainly Beaulieu/Gilbert will improve things no matter what.

 

[Habs100]

I know there is still time to do minor adjustment.

But we could compare our team as of October 2013 with the team we have right now.

The question should be are we better than we were in the series against the Rangers.

We lost Vanek and didn't replace him. We lost a lot of veterans.

The answer to the question will depend on how much better the kids are, mainly: Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Beaulieu, and even Subban still has room to grow, and then there are Andrighetto and Sepac--and even Bournival can contribute.

I don't think we'll be better. But I hope Bergevin will be able to find the extra offense in a trade if we need it. Vrbata at 5 million for 2 years would have been better than giving up assets in a trade imo, even though Vrbata "should" only be getting 4 million.

 

[overlords]

The problem isn't that we had Bouillon/Murray it's that even when Markov and Subban are on the ice we struggle with breakouts more than we should. We rely way too much on stretch passes instead of of breaking out as a team with short passes. That's a system/coaching problem more than a personnel problem, though certainly Beaulieu/Gilbert will improve things no matter what.

Yep completely agree. I meant to say that you can luck out some crazy **** with talent like subban and markov, but if you're putting plugs on the ice AND your strategies are garbage.... you're going to have a bad time.

 

[dmanfish90]

It's too early to tell but look at the changes from that roster to this roster:

IN:

Gilbert
Beaulieu
Malholtra
Sekac
Parenteau
Weaver
Weise

OUT:

Gionta
Gorges
White
Parros
Diaz
Briere
Bouillon
Murray

IMO, we're pretty much the same team. Except younger. Look at the guys who will be replacing.

Briere < Parenteau slightly (not as old)
Gilbert < Gorges slightly (more dynamic puckmover in Gilbert, less defensive prowess)
Murray, Diaz < Weaver (both block shots well, while I believe Weaver can move better and be some what physical though not like Murray could)
Bouillon < Beaulieu (moves the puck better, more dynamic, better shot, not as physical as Bouillon)
White < Malholtra (better in the faceoff dot and can still be physical)
Parros < Weise (better in a lot of ways except for maybe fighting)
Sekac < Gionta (from what I can see, Gionta with a healthy offseason could still be a dynamic threat and Sekac is untested in NA. Not much better but probably would have been a better option, though for more money (that we kinda don't have to spend)

 

[Habs100]

It's too early to tell but look at the changes from that roster to this roster:

IN:

Gilbert
Beaulieu
Malholtra
Sekac
Parenteau
Weaver
Weise

OUT:

Gionta
Gorges
White
Parros
Diaz
Briere
Bouillon
Murray

IMO, we're pretty much the same team. Except younger. Look at the guys who will be replacing.

Briere < Parenteau slightly (not as old)
Gilbert < Gorges slightly (more dynamic puckmover in Gilbert, less defensive prowess)
Murray, Diaz < Weaver (both block shots well, while I believe Weaver can move better and be some what physical though not like Murray could)
Bouillon < Beaulieu (moves the puck better, more dynamic, better shot, not as physical as Bouillon)
White < Malholtra (better in the faceoff dot and can still be physical)
Parros < Weise (better in a lot of ways except for maybe fighting)
Sekac < Gionta (from what I can see, Gionta with a healthy offseason could still be a dynamic threat and Sekac is untested in NA. Not much better but probably would have been a better option, though for more money (that we kinda don't have to spend)

You need to take Vanek into consideration. We were close to not making the playoffs until we got Vanek.

So basically you're saying we're "pretty much the same team" as a team that might not have made the playoffs.

 

[gunnerdom]

Gilbert > Gorges (cost less, brings more)
Parenteau > Gionta (Younger, bigger, more productive)
Maholtra > Briere (Maholtra will be better suited at 4th line Centre than Briere was, also bigger and much cheaper)
Nothing > Murray (addition by substraction)
+ Jiri Sekac (already a winner because his name backwards is Cakes)
Weaver > Bouillon (just better)
Emelin playing on the left > Emelin playing on the right

With that we leave more room on D for our younger guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi.... and possibly Pateryn or Nygren.

It's all positives imo.

 

[WestIslander]

We are better because we are going with Bergevin's team now and players signed by Gainey/Gauthier are almost all gone and here is why we will win the cup soon:

Franchise goalie = Price
Franchise offensive defenseman = Markov, Subban
Big skilled centres = Galchenyuk, Eller, De La Rose
Power forward = Pacioretty, McCarron
Stay at home defenseman = Emelin, Tinordi, Thrower, Ellis
Role player at forward = Gallagher, Plekanec
Grit and toughness = Prust, Weise, Crisp

I think we are better today, better next season and will win the cup within the next 3 seasons, we are well into a "5 year plan" at this point and have the right pieces to be the best team in the east going forward.

 

[Andy]

We are better because we are going with Bergevin's team now and players signed by Gainey/Gauthier are almost all gone and here is why we will win the cup soon:

Franchise goalie = Price
Franchise offensive defenseman = Markov, Subban
Big skilled centres = Galchenyuk, Eller, De La Rose
Power forward = Pacioretty, McCarron
Stay at home defenseman = Emelin, Tinordi, Thrower, Ellis
Role player at forward = Gallagher, Plekanec
Grit and toughness = Prust, Weise, Crisp

I think we are better today, better next season and will win the cup within the next 3 seasons, we are well into a "5 year plan" at this point and have the right pieces to be the best team in the east going forward.

De La Rose, McCarron, Thrower, Crisp and Ellis will probably not making their mark on this team anytime soon (maybe DLR is the exception).

Subban, Price, Eller, Gallagher, Markov, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Emelin, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Desharnais are still Gainey/Gauthier remnants (Markov and Plekanec being remnants of regime prior to that also).

The depth and complimentary players have Bergevin's finger prints all over them, but the core players that those depth players compliment are still very similar to the one's of the previous regime.

I still don't think we've seen Bergevin's team yet. The only real core player added from Bergevin's tenure is Galchenyuk. Vanek could have been one had he been retained. Weise, Weaver, Prust, Parenteau, Gilbert, Malholtra are all depth and complimentary players, as was Ryder, Briere, Murray, Boullion, Parros, Halpern, Drewiske and Armstrong before them.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

^^ And just add the fact that Pacioretty is NOT a powerforward.

 

[Adriatic]

Just the fact Gorges won't be gifting puck possession to the other team for 20 min a night will be a huge improvement. On the whole we are slowly starting to resemble more of what a good team should look like. We are younger, bigger, deeper and more athletic. Don't know how we will look like on the ice but I'm pretty confident we will be tougher to play against then last year and the year before.

 

[Mrb1p]

In october we didn't have Vanek, definitely.

 

[Bullsmith]

We've upgraded offensively at RW but downgraded defensively. I feel like we're short a top 9 RW, and a #7 D. If there's any kind of injury you've got multiple rookies in your top six. I think the team needs one more vet who can ride the bench for months at time then step in and play if needed. Boullion did a really good job of that last year, to his credit. But I hope we can do a bit better than the Cube this year.

 

[dmanfish90]

You need to take Vanek into consideration. We were close to not making the playoffs until we got Vanek.

So basically you're saying we're "pretty much the same team" as a team that might not have made the playoffs.

In october we didn't have Vanek, definitely.

No you don't take Vanek into consideration. The questions was are we a better team now than October 1st. Not June 29th.

Looking at this team right now, we're pretty much the same except the defence is more balanced which I think will be good for us going forward. But I think personally, the only thing we did was get younger, which isn't necessarily a good thing right now, but will be in 2,3,4 years when we're ready to contend.

Gilbert > Gorges (cost less, brings more)
Parenteau > Gionta (Younger, bigger, more productive)
Maholtra > Briere (Maholtra will be better suited at 4th line Centre than Briere was, also bigger and much cheaper)
Nothing > Murray (addition by substraction)
+ Jiri Sekac (already a winner because his name backwards is Cakes)
Weaver > Bouillon (just better)
Emelin playing on the left > Emelin playing on the right

With that we leave more room on D for our younger guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi.... and possibly Pateryn or Nygren.

It's all positives imo.

Parenteau is not that much younger (3 years) and almost the same productive wise. His stats seem inflated from NYI (at least at first glance). His time in COL was pretty good in year one, but filled with injuries, same as Gionta.

If you wanna compare those two, he's really just bigger but I think dynamically they're the same player.

Briere played RW for most of the season so it would be better to compare him with PA. White was SUPPOSED to be the #4C but him and Therrien weren't getting along and is better to compare him with Manny.

Also, how do we know Emelin will be better on the left after playing 3 years on the right with Markov for the most part? I am assuming it will be but it will take some adjusting until he's actually much better.

 

[Stjonnypopo]

The determining factor whether we're better or not will be if our prospects developed the way we want them to. If they haven't progressed then we're around the same. If Galchenyuk is ready for a top-6 role, and Gallagher keeps playing the way that makes him successful, and if Tinordi and Beaulieu both work their ***** off this off-season, then we're definitely a better team.

We also saw how powerful of a player Eller can be during the playoffs, if he continues where he left off then he's basically going to be a 3rd line center who plays like a 2nd line center. Having a top-9 full of players who are able to play a top-6 role is a recipe for success. Look at all of the winning teams, they had depth, they had guys on the 3rd line who could score goals.

 

[gunnerdom]

No you don't take Vanek into consideration. The questions was are we a better team now than October 1st. Not June 29th.

Looking at this team right now, we're pretty much the same except the defence is more balanced which I think will be good for us going forward. But I think personally, the only thing we did was get younger, which isn't necessarily a good thing right now, but will be in 2,3,4 years when we're ready to contend.



Parenteau is not that much younger (3 years) and almost the same productive wise. His stats seem inflated from NYI (at least at first glance). His time in COL was pretty good in year one, but filled with injuries, same as Gionta.

If you wanna compare those two, he's really just bigger but I think dynamically they're the same player.

Briere played RW for most of the season so it would be better to compare him with PA. White was SUPPOSED to be the #4C but him and Therrien weren't getting along and is better to compare him with Manny.

Also, how do we know Emelin will be better on the left after playing 3 years on the right with Markov for the most part? I am assuming it will be but it will take some adjusting until he's actually much better.

Gionta lacks imagination. He gets the puck, shoots it at the goalie. Parenteau will bring a bit more creativity.

I doubt it takes a long time to adjust to your natural side.

Just having Weaver there instead of Bouillon and not having Murray is so much better for our D. Gorges, Bouillon and Murray were puck possession killers. Dumping the puck at every occasion.

Anyway, I'm convinced we have a much better team on our hands right now.