At their peaks: Jagr/Forsberg/Lindros v Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

How is Sid EASILY the best player there?

All time very easily

 

[Yuri35]

All time very easily

no he is not

 

[filinski77]

All time very easily

Without trying to get into a pissing match, because you honestly have a tendency to just shit on other players without trying to be objective, I really don't think you can say that Crosby is 'easily' the best of himself/Jagr/Ovi:

	Crosby	Ovechkin	Jagr
Pearson	3	3	3
Hart	2	3	1
Top 10 Hart	9	9	8
Ross	2	1	5
Point/GP Lead	5	3	3
Top 10 Points	11	8	11
Rocket	2	9	0
Top 10 Goals	4	13	8
Smythe	2	1	0
Allstar-1	4	7	7
Allstar 2	4	4	1
Allstar-3	2	2	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All 3 of them have unique on advantages on eachother:
Ovechkin: Arguably the best peak of the group (consistent Pearsons, goal and point/gp leads), and he is one of (if not the best) best goalscorers in the history of the league
Crosby: Crazy consistent, and amazing at putting up points, but is hurt by the 'what ifs' that could have happened in many years
Jagr: 5x point leader, and was also a better goalscorer than Crosby despite not winning a Rocket

 

[Varan]

Without trying to get into a pissing match, because you honestly have a tendency to just shit on other players without trying to be objective, I really don't think you can say that Crosby is 'easily' the best of himself/Jagr/Ovi:

	Crosby	Ovechkin	Jagr
Pearson	3	3	3
Hart	2	3	1
Top 10 Hart	9	9	8
Ross	2	1	5
Point/GP Lead	5	3	3
Top 10 Points	11	8	11
Rocket	2	9	0
Top 10 Goals	4	13	8
Smythe	2	1	0
Allstar-1	4	7	7
Allstar 2	4	4	1
Allstar-3	2	2	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All 3 of them have unique on advantages on eachother:
Ovechkin: Arguably the best peak of the group (consistent Pearsons, goal and point/gp leads), and he is one of (if not the best) best goalscorers in the history of the league
Crosby: Crazy consistent, and amazing at putting up points, but is hurt by the 'what ifs' that could have happened in many years
Jagr: 5x point leader, and was also a better goalscorer than Crosby despite not winning a Rocket

There’s no point. He’s probably not gonna read any of this. He’s just blind when it comes to Crosby. The truth of the matter is that all 3 are very close to each other and it’s almost preference that puts one over the other.

 

[Fataldogg]

Crosby and Malkin both scored 100+ in the reg season then 30+ in the playoffs same season. Throw in ovechkin and it’s an easy win, plus Crosby is easily the best player here.

In your opinion.

I'd rank them:

Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Forsberg
Lindros


I'd pick the second trio. But Jagr is the best player in my book. He won the Art Ross in 5 of 6 seasons. Crosby, Ovechkin, etc were losing out on Art Ross trophies in their peak to players like Henrik Sedin. None of them dominated their peers in a way Jagr did. You could say, MAYBE Crosby could have come close if he was healthy, but he was not and I do not give him credit for time off the ice.

 

[Gurglesons]

In your opinion.

I'd rank them:

Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Forsberg
Lindros


I'd pick the second trio. But Jagr is the best player in my book. He won the Art Ross in 5 of 6 seasons. Crosby, Ovechkin, etc were losing out on Art Ross trophies in their peak to players like Henrik Sedin. None of them dominated their peers in a way Jagr did. You could say, MAYBE Crosby could have come close if he was healthy, but he was not and I do not give him credit for time off the ice.

Crosby was more interested in winning cups then asking for Czech coaches and players and creating narratives that without him Pittsburgh would lose the Pens.

 

[cvrle1]

Even in his best season (06/07), Sid never came close to Jagr's best (95/96). And that was at time where you couldnt skate anywhere due to clutching, holding and interference galore. Hell, Jagr had better season than Sid's best in 05/06 with Rangers when he was already 36 year old. If Jagr at 36 years old beat Sid's best, where league finally made game faster, just imagine what he would have done when he was in his prime if game was played without all the bush league nonsense going on in the 90s.

 

[K Fleur]

Even in his best season (06/07), Sid never came close to Jagr's best (95/96). And that was at time where you couldnt skate anywhere due to clutching, holding and interference galore. Hell, Jagr had better season than Sid's best in 05/06 with Rangers when he was already 36 year old. If Jagr at 36 years old beat Sid's best, where league finally made game faster, just imagine what he would have done when he was in his prime if game was played without all the bush league nonsense going on in the 90s.

Neither of these seasons is either of these players best season.

 

[psycat]

I rank them

Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Forsberg
Lindros

Taking the current group but Jagr is the best player of the bunch.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Prime Jagr won 4 scoring titles in a row without Lemieux and with Francis around for only one of those. He was an absolute beast despite playing with average players and having to carry his team year after year.

Forsbergs 2002 playoff run is comparable and arguably better (see @Regal 's post above) to Malkins 2009 IMO. Overall tho, I think Foppa's the better player.

Malkin quite clearly beats Forsberg in peak, prime, and career.

 

[thadd]

I think people need to consider how soft the current NHL is and how there literally wouldn't be anything to stop Forsberg or Lindros in their peak.

 

[Voight]

Malkin quite clearly beats Forsberg in peak, prime, and career.

Not really.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Malkin quite clearly beats Forsberg in peak, prime, and career.

Forsberg's points per game is better than Malkin's in both regular season and playoffs. Forsberg was an excellent defensive player, Malkin average if I'm being kind.

Forsberg plus/minus: +238 regular season +54 playoffs

Malkin plus/minus: +73 regular season +9 playoffs

 

[cvrle1]

I think people need to consider how soft the current NHL is and how there literally wouldn't be anything to stop Forsberg or Lindros in their peak.

This is one of the main reasons I hate when people compare players of old with current ones. There is no way to subjectively do this. Jagr and Malkin are built quite the same and play same sort of game, but Jagr had even better hands than Geno does. If Jagr was playing in current NHL, there is no question he would be putting up more points than Sid ever did. And for Lindros, yeah I guess he wouldnt have Kaspar and others head hunting him either, so he most likely would have had much longer and much more productive career.

 

[Ben White]

Lol at Malkin being a better playoff performer than Forsberg. Forsberg had better stats in a lower scoring era. Where’s the logic? Also, people here using peak season = peak play are out to lunch. Players with fewer full seasons like Forsberg and Lindros will be punished in such a comparison.

stats per game in context is a much better measure.

Peak play:

1. Crosby ~ Forsberg ~ Lindros ~ Jagr
2. Ovechkin ~ Malkin

 

[MrOT]

I have them peak wise

Forsberg, Lindros, Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin

Its crazy close though between all of them, they're basically all at the same peak level

 

[qwerty]

Great question. At their absolute peak, Lindros-Jagr-Forsberg were all physically dominant monsters who were all massive point producers even in a lower scoring era. I’d go with that trio even though a couple of them were extremely injury prone, mostly due to their style of play.

The Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin trio have had the better careers, but 2 of them played together which I think affects my opinion a bit. Also, Jagr just seemed so ahead of the pack during his peak. I think he still won the Art Ross after missing something like 20 games. I mean, that’s just madness. Also, Lindros was a unicorn, not a player alive who combined everything he did. An absolute ferocious beast.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Lol at Malkin being a better playoff performer than Forsberg. Forsberg had better stats in a lower scoring era. Where’s the logic? Also, people here using peak season = peak play are out to lunch. Players with fewer full seasons like Forsberg and Lindros will be punished in such a comparison.

stats per game in context is a much better measure.

Peak play:

1. Crosby ~ Forsberg ~ Lindros ~ Jagr
2. Ovechkin ~ Malkin

I have them peak wise

Forsberg, Lindros, Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin

Its crazy close though between all of them, they're basically all at the same peak level

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I have them peak wise

Forsberg, Lindros, Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin

Its crazy close though between all of them, they're basically all at the same peak level

Based on?

 

[nowhereman]

Wow, some of the takes in this thread, lol....

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Forsberg's points per game is better than Malkin's in both regular season and playoffs. Forsberg was an excellent defensive player, Malkin average if I'm being kind.

Forsberg plus/minus: +238 regular season +54 playoffs

Malkin plus/minus: +73 regular season +9 playoffs

Plus/minus lol. Forsberg played through some high scoring years, 95-96 and 05-06 come to mind. Malkin has done better against his peers in a salary cap league.

 

[Tutu to]

It’s really close but I went with the second option.

Crosby>Jagr
Ovechkin>Forseberg
Lindros>Malkin

 

[MrOT]

Based on?

Just check the stats. In terms of peak play Forsberg, Jagr and Lindros were all close in the late 90's (check ppg and add Forsberg's and Lindroses physical play and Forsberg's defensive play and it gets REALLY close) and add to that Forsberg's real peak 2002-2006 and you have a case for Forsberg actually coming out on top. Not many players are top 10 in ppg for both reg season and playoffs for their career, add to that borderline elite defensive play while being a physical force.

 

[MrOT]

Very interesting. Comparing Forsberg and Jagr in ppg from 92/93 when Jagr was the same age as Forsberg in 94/95 when he entered the league and until 2006 when Forsberg's career (as we knew it) got finalized cause of injuries, only Jagr and Lemieux were ahead of Forsberg even though a lot of those players in the top played in the much higher scoring years 92-94 which Forsberg didn't and in their prime while Forsberg didnt enter his prime until the DP era in '97. And scoring wise it was much closer between Jagr and Forsberg than people think while Forsberg being the superior 2-way player. Add to this that Forsberg played through a lot of serious injuries during this time which damaged his production a lot at times when he basically wasn't 100% fit. This shows yet again how underrated Forsberg is cause of people not willing to do some research.

(At least 100 games played)

1.

Mario Lemieux (C)

398

282

427

709

1.781

286

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2.

Jaromír Jágr (RW)

959

532

774

1306

1.362

695

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

3.

Peter Forsberg (C)

640

235

581

816

1.275

588

1994-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

4.

Pat LaFontaine (C)

278

135

219

354

1.273

145

1992-1998

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

5.

Wayne Gretzky (C)

488

145

449

594

1.217

136

1992-1999

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

6.

Joe Sakic (C)

938

435

687

1122

1.196

447

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

7.

Eric Lindros (C)

711

367

472

839

1.180

1328

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

8.

Cam Neely (RW)

153

114

65

179

1.170

182

1992-1996

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

9.

Pavel Bure (RW)

637

403

316

719

1.129

454

1992-2003

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

10.

Teemu Selänne (RW)

959

492

549

1041

1.086

379

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

11.

Paul Kariya (LW)

739

342

448

790

1.069

275

1994-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

12.

Alexander Mogilny (RW)

796

389

452

841

1.057

327

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

13.

Dany Heatley (LW/RW)

272

130

154

284

1.044

218

2001-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

14.

Zigmund Pálffy (RW)

684

329

384

713

1.042

322

1993-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

15.

Adam Oates (C)

870

219

686

905

1.040

269

1992-2004

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

16.

Mats Sundin (C)

996

440

592

1032

1.036

766

1992-2006

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Yes, and no moving the starting point to 94/95 and Forsberg is still at #3 with even bigger margin to the 4th spot. And yep you guessed it, only counting from the 00's Forsberg wins in a landslide against the competition with only Lemieux being ahead in ppg.

And to people who disregard the ppg argument all in all claiming Ovechkin is the better player cause of trophy case and what not: Ovechkin NEVER during a 708 games (Forsbergs number of NHL games) stretch scored close to the same rate as Forsberg even if you choose his very prime years. Finally this argument must put a dagger into the anti Forsberg "arguments".

 

[Varan]

So Malkin's 2009 post he had 36p in 24 games in a year where the nhl averaged 2.91 g/gm and was the 3rd highest scoring season of the 20 years between 97-17.

Forsberg in 2002 has 27p in 20 games in a year the nhl averaged 2.62 g/gm and was the 2nd lowest scoring season of the past 65 years. Forsberg played zero regular season games that season out with an injury, and despite Colorado not making the finals, he still managed to lead the playoffs in points by 4, and assists. He was second in goals by 1 goal.

malkin beat his own teammate by 5 points in 09. If colorado makes the finals in 02 forsberg probably leads points that year by over 10 points, and any non-colorado players by 15 points.

Are Malkins best playoffs better than Forsberg? Maybe. Are they ridiculous in comparison to Forsbergs? I think not.

It's the 7th highest all-time in a list littered by Wayne.

Malkin before he went to the Finals had 28 points in 17 games. A PPG of 1.64. I don't care about the scoring era being a bit lower, his pace completely dwarfs any "advantage" he supposedly had. He had more points in 3 fewer games. He then closed the deal with an amazing Finals.

It IS ridiculous to compare the two. He was on another level that year.