At their peaks: Jagr/Forsberg/Lindros v Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin

[Dennis Bonvie]

‘90s revisionist history.

Jagr was my favorite player growing up. My dad was a die hard Flyers fan, and I loved Roy so I watched all of the Avs championships.

None of those players peak wise compare to Crosby or Ovechkin. And if we are going by peak, Malkin is right there with Jagr who never dominated the playoffs as one of THE GUYS like Malkin.

What would you know about the 90's, you were a kid.

 

[Gurglesons]

Clearly you didn't read my post. Lemeiux retired in 1997 after winning his 6th scoring title, Jagr proceeded to win 4 in a row. Francis stuck around for the first one (1998) but then departed for Carolina.

Jagr won these playing with Martin Strata and Robert Lang. Some crazy talent right there!

So no, he was not "insulated" by them.

Francis was there in 98 and Lemieux was there in 01.

 

[Gurglesons]

What would you know about the 90's, you were a kid.

I know that Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin have done things on much less talented teams that are comparable or supersede most of the ‘90s lore.

 

[danyhabsfan]

Big Forsberg fan but I voted for the other trio.

 

[Regal]

It's easier to play "closer to their peak" when their peak is clearly inferior. Nothing Forsberg or Lindros ever did comes close to sniffing OV's 08-10. And speaking of PPG, OV has more PPG wins than Forsberg and Lindros. Also, OV played 70+ GP in all 8 of his top 10 PPG seasons (48/48 in 12/13). Lindros only 3/8, Forsberg only 5/8. So OV destroys them for peak but also prime (before even getting into goal, pt and hart finishes).

That's a lot of words to say you agree, though the idea that they weren't close is absurd.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I know that Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin have done things on much less talented teams that are comparable or supersede most of the ‘90s lore.

???

 

[Gurglesons]

???

Crosby and Ovechkin are better players than any on the players listed on the other teams

Malkin’s peak is up there with Jags and Forsberg.

 

[Voight]

Francis was there in 98 and Lemieux was there in 01.

Lemieux played half of 2001. So I wouldn't say he insulated Jagr that much. Francis was a good player, but Jagr drove that line.

Besides - his most impressive Art Ross wins came without either of them on the team - 1999 & 2000.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lemieux played half of 2001. So I wouldn't say he insulated Jagr that much. Francis was a good player, but Jagr drove that line.

Besides - his most impressive Art Ross wins came without either of them on the team - 1999 & 2000.

Which is why I said in the post you quoted that 99 offensively was comparable to Sid’s offensive peak, but Sid wasn’t a one way forward that didn’t qualify for the playoffs.

And I’d still argue Jags best season was 96, but I know people think what he did in the late ‘90s is miraculous, I just don’t see much value in a team that catered systematically and structurally to one player and had no success because of it.

 

[Voight]

Which is why I said in the post you quoted that 99 offensively was comparable to Sid’s offensive peak, but Sid wasn’t a one way forward that didn’t qualify for the playoffs.

You said he was insulated by the two mentioned players.... when 3 (or 2 1/2 if you wanna be picky) came without them.

Put Sid on those teams and they still don't make the playoffs. Luckily for him he's had one helluva running mate on his team for most of his career. Jagr was playing for a bankrupt franchise that was on the verge of relocation and thus did not have the resources to bring in another star when Lemieux retired.

 

[Gurglesons]

You said he was insulated by the two mentioned players.... when 3 (or 2 1/2 if you wanna be picky) came without them.

Put Sid on those teams and they still don't make the playoffs. Luckily for him he's had one helluva running mate on his team for most of his career. Jagr was playing for a bankrupt franchise that was on the verge of relocation and thus did not have the resources to bring in another star when Lemieux retired.

Jags was 11 pts being Sakic and in 10th overall when Lemieux returned in 2000.

We’ve never seen Crosby on a team that caters simply to him to put up offensive numbers. I assume if we did it when he was 26 we would have seen a similar response dependent on his health.

 

[Lambo]

I'm curious what peak season you think is better than Crosby's? 99?

96, 99, 01, 06

 

[Yuri35]

Crosby and Malkin both scored 100+ in the reg season then 30+ in the playoffs same season. Throw in ovechkin and it’s an easy win, plus Crosby is easily the best player here.

How is Sid EASILY the best player there?

 

[Gurglesons]

How is Sid EASILY the best player there?

Because no other player on the list is challenging for a top 5 NHLer since expansion.

 

[Lambo]

Because no other player on the list is challenging for a top 5 NHLer since expansion.

Jagr > Crosby

 

[Voight]

Because no other player on the list is challenging for a top 5 NHLer since expansion.

Jagr.... Ovy

 

[Turin]

Jagr > Crosby

Not in any meaningful way.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jagr > Crosby

Nope.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jagr.... Ovy

If we are only including forwards, sure.

 

[Voight]

If we are only including forwards, sure.

I dont want to derail this thread, but they have just as good of a case as Crosby for one of the best players since 67.

 

[Gurglesons]

I dont want to derail this thread, but they have just as good of a case as Crosby for one of the best players since 67.

k.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Forsberg would have needed to have 9 points in 4 games to equal what Malkin did that playoffs.

Malkin's playoff stat line speaks for itself. He has been a far better playoff performer than Forsberg.

Also, the 2002 Kings and Sharks are not exactly the 2009 Flyers and Caps.

Well Forsberg has more points in less games than Malkin so I mean I guess that means it's not cut and dry as to who's better in the playoffs?

 

[psycat]

Nope.

yes

 

[Varan]

If we are only including forwards, sure.

And this thread is peak

Many believe OV at his peak was better than Crosby at his peak

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Forsberg really was as good as some folks on HF seem to still think he was, he'd rival Gretzky's trophy case.