Askarov

[jkutswings]

...you might just not like any goalies and see them as a necessary evil.

Now you're getting it!

 

[Bench]

If it was true that Carey Price was head-and-shoulders better than the average goalie, and also that goalie was an important position, then he would have more than an average of 2 playoff wins per year for his career.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I've always wondered upon whom Jeff Goldblum based that character. It seems like an unholy amalgam of Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Dr. Strangelove, and some anonymous 1970s porn star. That tongue flick and open shirt in that very gif -- yucko.

 

[jkutswings]

...you might just not like any goalies and see them as a necessary evil.

Actually, if I'm really being honest, deep down I probably have some sort of Pavlovian dislike of elite goaltenders.

Hasek played for Detroit, but he was the exception to the rule, in terms of how the best goalies played, and what became of the Wings when he took the ice.

Belfour was just plain dirty. Not only did his Chicago teams have Detroit's number, but he never hesitated in doling out slashes to the nether regions of any players foolhardy enough to approach his territory.

Roy was Roy: an exceptionally gifted athlete, who made sure you noticed that the only thing better than him was how he viewed himself.

And the poster child for elite goalies? Martin Brodeur. Ageless, effortless play, with almost maddening consistency, complete with the puck handling skills of an extra defenseman. And who did he play FOR all those years? The New Jersey Devils: everything that I thought was wrong with the NHL. A mediocre offense that rarely had to earn their paychecks, because they had a suffocating trap of a defense, with a brick wall behind it, and were perfectly content to win a thousand 1-0 games. (Also known as boring as hell hockey.)

So yeah, Askarov might have the skills to one day join that club...but why would I want THAT GUY, at the cost of #4 overall, when I have so many unhappy memories of what that type of netminder does?

*shudder*

Somebody draft a center, before that nervous twitch comes back again...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I keep thinking somehow the Hawks are going to get this kid and it makes me want to puke.

 

[Bench]

I've always wondered upon whom Jeff Goldblum based that character. It seems like an unholy amalgam of Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Dr. Strangelove, and some anonymous 1970s porn star. That tongue flick and open shirt in that very gif -- yucko.

When I watch his interviews now, it's difficult to discern when he just became the character he always plays. Did he put himself into his acting or is he himself now his acting? I dunno.

 

[Bench]

I keep thinking somehow the Hawks are going to get this kid and it makes me want to puke.

First Dach, then this. Total nightmare fuel.

 

[cjeagle]

I wouldn't mind getting Askarov at #4. I believe a rebuilding team should be built from the back moving forward and getting a good goaltender would make a good foundation for that rebuild.

Anyways the Redwings will have many chances to view him before the draft with the European hockey season starting in September, so hopefully Stevie will make the right call.

 

[Mlotek]

Price is an absolute f***ing stud. I actually keep forgetting how much I fricking love Carey Price as a goalie. I think it's mostly because even though he's very athletic, he's so damn good positionally that he never has to use it. He's very rarely making a highlight reel save because he doesn't have to. Highlight reel saves are made by bad goalies and Dominik Hasek. If Askarov is 80% of Price, I'm taking him 4OA easily. I don't want to put that on the kid, though. That's a pretty heady result.
Yeah, last year, you could have easily traded back to 10 and landed Spencer Knight if you wanted him.

You're right. Every guy at 4 (Raymond, Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Drysdale, etc.) all really seem like a step down.

1 was clearly Laf
2 and 3 are clearly Byfield and Stutzle.

After that, where a guy has a stunning advantage, he's also got something just the smallest bit off about him.

Price might be stud (or was) but is he worth 10 million a year?

Both goalies played over 500 games. There is 2 year age gap between them.

Goalie A	Goalie B	Career
0.916	0.917	Save %
2.48	2.49	GAA
50	48	SO
0.578846	0.564516	Point %

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Said it before, but the lottery already screwed us, might as well trade down a few places, add some more picks, and take Askarov.

 

[Killerjas]

Said it before, but the lottery already screwed us, might as well trade down a few places, add some more picks, and take Askarov.

You wanna drop and pass on Raymond, Perfetti, Rossi or Drysdale to get a goalie who is a total unknown and wont make it to NA until 2023?

Just sign a UFA goalie. Yes, we might miss a future Vasilevsky or we can miss the new Jack Campbell. A complete risk.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

You wanna drop and pass on Raymond, Perfetti, Rossi or Drysdale to get a goalie who is a total unknown and wont make it to NA until 2023?

Just sign a UFA goalie. Yes, we might miss a future Vasilevsky or we can miss the new Jack Campbell. A complete risk.

Sure, but we need a gamebreaking player more than anything else. Shoot high. I think Askarov has the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft outside the top 3, it's just a real boom/bust thing since he's a goalie, so trade down, and shoot for another lottery pick next year. Cause buckle up, this'll take a bit.

 

[Bench]

You wanna drop and pass on Raymond, Perfetti, Rossi or Drysdale to get a goalie who is a total unknown and wont make it to NA until 2023?

Just sign a UFA goalie. Yes, we might miss a future Vasilevsky or we can miss the new Jack Campbell. A complete risk.

I get what you're saying, but Askarov as a prospect is regarded far higher than Campbell ever was. Campbell had lots of warning signs during his draft. He had limited playing time to judge him from but had a monster U18 tournament. He was a "big game" goalie that had a bad habit of making routine saves look difficult.

Basically, that would be like saying the #1 overall pick could be Tavarves or Yakupov. We're talking about two different classes of prospects here.

 

[MBH]

Price might be stud (or was) but is he worth 10 million a year?

Both goalies played over 500 games. There is 2 year age gap between them.

Goalie A	Goalie B	Career
0.916	0.917	Save %
2.48	2.49	GAA
50	48	SO
0.578846	0.564516	Point %

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Right.
The real problem is Carey Price ceased being a f***ing stud when he got stud money.

That is the scary thing about goalies.
I wonder if the modern style contracts helps.
Say Askarov comes over at 20. At 22 or 23 you sign him to an 8 year deal - with the understanding you're probably walking away from him at 30-31 to let someone else have the decline. Maybe trading him at the end.

So here's an idea that occurred to me:
Age of cup winning goalies (at the start of the season) in the salary cap era.

Binnington 25
Holtby 28
Murray 22
Murray 21
Crawford 30
Quick 28
Crawford 28
Quick 26
Thomas 36
Niemi 26
Fleury 24
Osgood 35
Giguere 29
Ward 21

Average age of 27 sounds right. Sounds normal.
But literally just 2 over the age of 30.
The flipside is 4 under the age of 24
Also - nobody over 30 since Tim Thomas.

Some goalies age well, of course. Lundqvist did pretty well. But he was never the same after the age of 33.
There are some over-30 goalies playing well still. Rask, for example. Bishop had a good year.
But I wonder if time is up soon on these guys.


You look at that Bobrovsky deal or the Price deal... holy f***.
Better to do what Stevie did with Vasilivesky and sign them at the age of 23-24.

The only problem is, 11 years from now, you're the GM of the Red Wings. You've drafted Askarov and he's been everything you wanted and you're a regular playoff competitor and even a cup contender.
Askarov is 29 and coming up on his UFA season.
Do you have the guts NOT to pay him?

But leave that for the GM in 11 years.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Apologies if this has already been said in the thread, but...

I think Askarov probably falls out of the top 10. If so, I'd rather take a skater at #4 and try and mobilize the #31, #50ish, and a sweetener (maybe next year's EDM second, maybe something like Cholowski, idk) to move up into the teens for Askarov.

Obviously this doesn't work if Askarov goes top 12 or so, but I think it's a fair bet to anticipate goalies falling in the draft.

Askarov at #4 would be pretty rich for my taste. But one of Raymond/Rossi/Perfetti/Drysdale/etc. at #4, plus Askarov at like #15, at the expense of a few seconds and maybe more, is something I could get behind.

 

[Bench]

Apologies if this has already been said in the thread, but...

I think Askarov probably falls out of the top 10. If so, I'd rather take a skater at #4 and try and mobilize the #31, #50ish, and a sweetener (maybe next year's EDM second, maybe something like Cholowski, idk) to move up into the teens for Askarov.

Obviously this doesn't work if Askarov goes top 12 or so, but I think it's a fair bet to anticipate goalies falling in the draft.

Askarov at #4 would be pretty rich for my taste. But one of Raymond/Rossi/Perfetti/Drysdale/etc. at #4, plus Askarov at like #15, at the expense of a few seconds and maybe more, is something I could get behind.

This works for me. I think you're far better off front loading your draft.

But do we have any recent examples of folks moving out of the mid first round entirely? Sincere question.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Apologies if this has already been said in the thread, but...

I think Askarov probably falls out of the top 10. If so, I'd rather take a skater at #4 and try and mobilize the #31, #50ish, and a sweetener (maybe next year's EDM second, maybe something like Cholowski, idk) to move up into the teens for Askarov.

Obviously this doesn't work if Askarov goes top 12 or so, but I think it's a fair bet to anticipate goalies falling in the draft.

Askarov at #4 would be pretty rich for my taste. But one of Raymond/Rossi/Perfetti/Drysdale/etc. at #4, plus Askarov at like #15, at the expense of a few seconds and maybe more, is something I could get behind.

This has been my thought for a while

 

[TheOtherOne]

Right.
The real problem is Carey Price ceased being a f***ing stud when he got stud money.

That is the scary thing about goalies.
I wonder if the modern style contracts helps.
Say Askarov comes over at 20. At 22 or 23 you sign him to an 8 year deal - with the understanding you're probably walking away from him at 30-31 to let someone else have the decline. Maybe trading him at the end.

So here's an idea that occurred to me:
Age of cup winning goalies (at the start of the season) in the salary cap era.

Binnington 25
Holtby 28
Murray 22
Murray 21
Crawford 30
Quick 28
Crawford 28
Quick 26
Thomas 36
Niemi 26
Fleury 24
Osgood 35
Giguere 29
Ward 21

Average age of 27 sounds right. Sounds normal.
But literally just 2 over the age of 30.
The flipside is 4 under the age of 24
Also - nobody over 30 since Tim Thomas.

Some goalies age well, of course. Lundqvist did pretty well. But he was never the same after the age of 33.
There are some over-30 goalies playing well still. Rask, for example. Bishop had a good year.
But I wonder if time is up soon on these guys.


You look at that Bobrovsky deal or the Price deal... holy f***.
Better to do what Stevie did with Vasilivesky and sign them at the age of 23-24.

The only problem is, 11 years from now, you're the GM of the Red Wings. You've drafted Askarov and he's been everything you wanted and you're a regular playoff competitor and even a cup contender.
Askarov is 29 and coming up on his UFA season.
Do you have the guts NOT to pay him?

But leave that for the GM in 11 years.

Hmm I see what you mean... out of all the winning Red Wings goalies, 100% were 35 or older...

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

But do we have any recent examples of folks moving out of the mid first round entirely? Sincere question.

That's a great question, and honestly I can't really think of any examples where a team traded down outside of the first round entirely.

Granted, our second round pick is the #31 overall, so pretty damn close to a first rounder, depending on how you size that up. But I agree, trading up to get Askarov might require something pretty creative on our end, unless he really plummets (which I don't see happening).

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Apologies if this has already been said in the thread, but...

I think Askarov probably falls out of the top 10. If so, I'd rather take a skater at #4 and try and mobilize the #31, #50ish, and a sweetener (maybe next year's EDM second, maybe something like Cholowski, idk) to move up into the teens for Askarov.

Obviously this doesn't work if Askarov goes top 12 or so, but I think it's a fair bet to anticipate goalies falling in the draft.

Askarov at #4 would be pretty rich for my taste. But one of Raymond/Rossi/Perfetti/Drysdale/etc. at #4, plus Askarov at like #15, at the expense of a few seconds and maybe more, is something I could get behind.

Nj- pick 17
Ottawa- pick 21

woild be good targets. Though these teams with extra firsts would Probly be interested in taking him themselves.

 

[Killerjas]

I rather keep my 3 2nd round picks including basically a borderline 1st to get good players and sign a UFA goalie when we are competitive. The 2nd round is stacked with a lot of potential.

 

[Marky9er]

Someone sell me on trading down and give me a Mysak or Bourque in addition to Askarov. Is it possible?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Right.
The real problem is Carey Price ceased being a f***ing stud when he got stud money.

That is the scary thing about goalies.
I wonder if the modern style contracts helps.
Say Askarov comes over at 20. At 22 or 23 you sign him to an 8 year deal - with the understanding you're probably walking away from him at 30-31 to let someone else have the decline. Maybe trading him at the end.

So here's an idea that occurred to me:
Age of cup winning goalies (at the start of the season) in the salary cap era.

Binnington 25
Holtby 28
Murray 22
Murray 21
Crawford 30
Quick 28
Crawford 28
Quick 26
Thomas 36
Niemi 26
Fleury 24
Osgood 35
Giguere 29
Ward 21

Average age of 27 sounds right. Sounds normal.
But literally just 2 over the age of 30.
The flipside is 4 under the age of 24
Also - nobody over 30 since Tim Thomas.

Some goalies age well, of course. Lundqvist did pretty well. But he was never the same after the age of 33.
There are some over-30 goalies playing well still. Rask, for example. Bishop had a good year.
But I wonder if time is up soon on these guys.


You look at that Bobrovsky deal or the Price deal... holy f***.
Better to do what Stevie did with Vasilivesky and sign them at the age of 23-24.

The only problem is, 11 years from now, you're the GM of the Red Wings. You've drafted Askarov and he's been everything you wanted and you're a regular playoff competitor and even a cup contender.
Askarov is 29 and coming up on his UFA season.
Do you have the guts NOT to pay him?

But leave that for the GM in 11 years.

Him moving on from Bishop granted he had a better player waiting but still him very early siding with Vasy over Bishop does make me think Yzerman will get that part of the equation right. Of course I think Askarov will be far better than Bishop so that makes the decision more challenging when you're debating moving on from a two or three time Vezina winner probably.

 

[Retire91]

Said it before, but the lottery already screwed us, might as well trade down a few places, add some more picks, and take Askarov.

Trading down requires a trading partner that
Wants to trade up
Has a pick in the range we think is still valuable
Has the assets necessary to make it worth it
Doesn't ask for something we won't part with as part of the deal

The odds of that happening are still just as good as last year, which is around zero

Someone sell me on trading down and give me a Mysak or Bourque in addition to Askarov. Is it possible?

No Yzreman might try to trade down, and like last year he won't find anyone willing to make a deal worth it.


It would be more likely that we could package a blue chip prospect and our second round picks to move up to a place to try and get him than it would be to trade down.

 

[ricky0034]

This works for me. I think you're far better off front loading your draft.

But do we have any recent examples of folks moving out of the mid first round entirely? Sincere question.

not for draft picks no,if a team in those spots is doing more than trading down a few spots its usually a trade for a player

I don't think either one will happen but the Wings ending up with a pick in the 10-15 or so range is far more likely to be the result of something along the lines of Yzerman deciding to move Mantha at the draft than trading up