Askarov

[Mlotek]

I mean, I have no clue, other than Askarov looks unreal as a goalie. Right now he looks as good as Price did, which is exciting. But he's a kid. Who the hell knows what's up in 5 years. It's just fun to talk about and take our armchair guesses.

How many people have actually watched Askarov play outside of tournaments?

I haven't.... feel free to share videos.

 

[Mlotek]

Found one.

Keep in mind he plays on a top team in a lower professional league.


He failed to catch a handful of easy pucks with glovehand,
Very easy game because his team is much better, CSK had a small number of scoring chances.
CSK scored on their best chances, can't really fault Askerov on either.
But damn is he lightning quick in the crease. Reminds me of Mrazek how aggressive he is to cut the angle.

 

[Mlotek]

Found a second one.



Relatively easy game as his team did a wonderful job of keeping the passing lanes in the middle closed off.

What a complete 180 from the defensive coverage Detroit employs, or lackthere of.


Askerov Solid on the 4-5 good chances Moskwa had, in particular, late in the game.

 

[Bench]

Thanks for digging up some videos. I'll add some from my watch history when I get a chance.

The main thing I'd stress when evaluating any individual performance with a goalie is not getting fixated on the goals that go in (or even big saves that can be attributed to a missed opportunity by the forward), but to look at the fundamentals:
Movement
Position
Recovery
Rebound control
Vision

Bad goals happen. Lucky bounces happen. Those things are going to waiver game to game. But the above traits should consistently look sound.

Askarov's movement and positioning are so effortless that it's deceiving how quickly he's getting across the crease and squaring with the puck. His athleticism is off the charts, but what makes him special (and different from Mrazek) is how the center mass of his body ends up at the correct angle to minimize space for the shooter.

It's genuinely masterful.

 

[jkutswings]

Askarov's movement and positioning are so effortless that it's deceiving how quickly he's getting across the crease and squaring with the puck. His athleticism is off the charts, but what makes him special (and different from Mrazek) is how the center mass of his body ends up at the correct angle to minimize space for the shooter.

It's genuinely masterful.

It's ok, Bench. We can give you two your privacy.

 

[newfy]

What does Pittsburgh getting gifted two generational talents have to do with the Wings' situation today?

Follow the conversation, because we're talking about how goalies arent worth that high of a pick. Pittsburgh won a cup with Fleury because they were gifted those 2 generational players and lost out on a few others likely because of him as well.

But some people are trying to say him winning cups makes him worth the pick he was taken at. He wasnt and its not a good reason to take Askarov that high. If the Pens used that pick on a Staal, Getzlaf or Perry type and add an average goalie (one that doesnt have historically bad payoffs 5 years in a row) they likely win more. Fleury winning one cup on that team isnt a good reason to take Askarov at 4

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I want our future G to support the D with clean passes out of the zone & also as a 6th defender, skating back for the puck in the trapezoid.

 

[jkutswings]

I want out future G to support the D with clean passes out of the zone & also as a 6th defender, skating back for the puck in the trapezoid.

Speaking of that aspect, does anybody know how Askarov grades out as a puck handler and passer? More Brodeur than Butterfingers?

 

[Bench]

Speaking of that aspect, does anybody know how Askarov grades out as a puck handler and passer? More Brodeur than Butterfingers?

He doesn't really do it. I haven't seen him be bad at it, but it's not what I'd call a big asset.

The new rules basically killed the Brodeurs and Turcos, though. Nobody plays like that anymore.

 

[jkutswings]

He doesn't really do it. I haven't seen him be bad at it, but it's not what I'd call a big asset.

The new rules basically killed the Brodeurs and Turcos, though. Nobody plays like that anymore.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking he'd be the next Master of the Trapezoid or anything. Just wondering if he can fling a nice outlet pass on occasion, or just keeps everything slow and low.

 

[Retire91]

I mean, I have no clue, other than Askarov looks unreal as a goalie. Right now he looks as good as Price did, which is exciting. But he's a kid. Who the hell knows what's up in 5 years. It's just fun to talk about and take our armchair guesses.

Five years ago I loved the Evgeny Svechnikov pick. Skilled, big, Russian winger? Sign me up. He looked like a lock to be a productive NHL player with his toolbox. In hindsight, for that draft I should have been advocating for a different Russian. The goalie, Ilya Samsonov, taken 3 picks later.

I've lost my gut feeling on goalies. I thought Mrazek was going to be a world beater. I saw the same things in him I saw when I first started watching Bobrovski. potential talent with hunger and athleticism. I was litterally thrilled, no joke, when they drafted him. I have no idea what happened but I was so wrong. That what makes me feel so gun shy about high G and D because historically they seem to take so long to develop and when they are drafted at 18 you have no idea how much of their ceiling they have already reached. Forwards always seem a little easier to read because the skills to succeed show a bit earlier in their development. So if they pick G or D with #4 I won't "hate" it. But I am going to have this sinking feeling for like 2-3 years until they prove it. haha

 

[Mlotek]

I've lost my gut feeling on goalies. I thought Mrazek was going to be a world beater. I saw the same things in him I saw when I first started watching Bobrovski. potential talent with hunger and athleticism. I was litterally thrilled, no joke, when they drafted him. I have no idea what happened but I was so wrong. That what makes me feel so gun shy about high G and D because historically they seem to take so long to develop and when they are drafted at 18 you have no idea how much of their ceiling they have already reached. Forwards always seem a little easier to read because the skills to succeed show a bit earlier in their development. So if they pick G or D with #4 I won't "hate" it. But I am going to have this sinking feeling for like 2-3 years until they prove it. haha

Because he had that potential and for a year and a half he looked like that.

Mrazek was marred with mental inconsistency (why Carolina hired a sports psychologist just for him).
There was also some issues between Mrazek and coaching staff.

The Mrazek-Howard rivalry for #1 appeared to take a mental toll on both.

At one point they tried to make Mrazek change his game and that was a disaster.


Mrazek has confidence issues (mental mentioned above) which you can see in how aggressive he is to push out of the crease. That is what the Wings tried to remove from his game. When he lacks confidence he sits farther back in the crease.

His second biggest issue is he is dog shit at screened point shots. I think that's on him not finding an efficient way to see the puck through traffic and not making himself 'big'. The screens and tips (mostly from his own D) is make tanked his numbers in Detroit.

 

[Shaman464]

I want Detroit to draft as many true centers and boom/bust defenders as possible. They will be better tools to get good goaltending through trade than staking your hopes on a goalie not busting in the top 5 in the draft.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I want our future G to support the D with clean passes out of the zone & also as a 6th defender, skating back for the puck in the trapezoid.

I want him to skate past center ice for a third slapshot option on power plays.

 

[Mlotek]

I want him to skate past center ice for a third slapshot option on power plays.

I think Patrick Roy tried that.

Deked past Gretzky as well.

Think is a rule against it.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Raymond-Ice Wizard
Drysdale-OPMD
Sanderson-2WayRockSolidD
Askarov-ElonMuskTerritory

 

[jkutswings]

Raymond-Ice Wizard

I'm sold. If there's one thing this roster doesn't have, it's an ice wizard. I can picture it now...

 

[lilidk]

I want Detroit to draft as many true centers and boom/bust defenders as possible. They will be better tools to get good goaltending through trade than staking your hopes on a goalie not busting in the top 5 in the draft.

Or get from Europe

 

[Sparty]

The main thing I like about Askarov is that it probably extends the rebuild by drafting a player who won't be on the team for a couple more years. I suspect he'll keep playing in Russia for another couple years while we struggle and get a couple more high picks before he gets here.

I keep equating this team to the Tigers teams in the early 2000s and my goodness they were awful. Everyone kept saying "go get some free agents" and management said, "what would be the point, to win 70 games instead of 60"? So they build a solid core and then eventually added Pudge Rodriguez. This team isn't ready for their Pudge Rodriguez (Krug or whoever you want) yet. Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, etc, they're fine pieces but they need more of them and the younger guys need to take their lumps and get better.

 

[Seider Town]

The more I think about the draft the more I like the idea of Askarov... unless Stutzle drops to 4 of course.

Wings won't be competitive for another 2-3 years minimum, that's about the time you'd see Askarov coming over to play anyway. He has all the tools in the world, let him keep getting better while the Wings will still be in rebuild for a couple seasons. By the time he comes over and is ready for the NHL the Wings will have a couple more top picks under their belt and will then have a young elite to almost elite goalie joining a young hopefully contending team.

I don't see any other way the Wings get a close to elite goalie other than drafting Askarov or waiting for the next big goalie to hit FA and then paying $10M a year like Bob just got. I'll take my chances drafting the kid showing elite potential than pay a FA $10M. Sure it's a risk at 4 if he busts but any player at any position can bust, chance you have to be willing to take. A team that never takes a risk never gets better.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nobody has ever built around a goalie alone, no. Just like nobody has ever built around a lone elite defender or lone elite center.

Some combination thereof is the way. And you can absolutely afford to have an elite goalie on your salary if you don't have any depth player overpays hogging up that space.

For the $3-4 million dollar difference between a league average goalie and the elite goalie, I would gladly sacrifice the 3rd line depth guy or a journeyman defender and try to replace that talent with a cheaper player. Someone who is, hmm, "good enough" as people like to say about the goalie they want.

Is the dip between Darren Helm and any number of guys working for barely above league minimum worth the difference between Jimmy Howard and Carey Price? Because that's how I see it. People get in their heads they can replace Price with Ben Bishop and end up gravy. But like... it's really hard to find Ben Bishop's for a decent price. If it was easy, everyone would have one. Instead I'm suggesting you just replace Helm with countless other guys. The different in production is barely going to be felt. But the difference in goaltending is going to be very much noticeable.

Cut money from your bottom lines. Not your starting goalie.

I agree with this in the FA market. I have a very hard time doing it in the top 5 of the draft. The fact that I'm remotely okay with the Wings considering Askarov says a lot about what you've gotten me to think of the player.

 

[Bench]

I agree with this in the FA market. I have a very hard time doing it in the top 5 of the draft. The fact that I'm remotely okay with the Wings considering Askarov says a lot about what you've gotten me to think of the player.

I'd rather have a star skater with this pick, too. But after the top 3, Askarov is the only one I'm confident in to be that guy. Ideally this happened a year the Wings could draft one at 12 or something, but you work with the cards you're dealt.

That isn't to say another couple guys won't be. I just don't know who they are. Meanwhile Askarov is a layup.

Of course, there are people here who think Price isn't that good so... If you feel that way, you might just not like any goalies and see them as a necessary evil.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'd rather have a star skater with this pick, too. But after the top 3, Askarov is the only one I'm confident in to be that guy. Ideally this happened a year the Wings could draft one at 12 or something, but you work with the cards you're dealt.

That isn't to say another couple guys won't be. I just don't know who they are. Meanwhile Askarov is a layup.

Of course, there are people here who think Price isn't that good so... If you feel that way, you might just not like any goalies and see them as a necessary evil.

Price is an absolute f***ing stud. I actually keep forgetting how much I fricking love Carey Price as a goalie. I think it's mostly because even though he's very athletic, he's so damn good positionally that he never has to use it. He's very rarely making a highlight reel save because he doesn't have to. Highlight reel saves are made by bad goalies and Dominik Hasek. If Askarov is 80% of Price, I'm taking him 4OA easily. I don't want to put that on the kid, though. That's a pretty heady result.
Yeah, last year, you could have easily traded back to 10 and landed Spencer Knight if you wanted him.

You're right. Every guy at 4 (Raymond, Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Drysdale, etc.) all really seem like a step down.

1 was clearly Laf
2 and 3 are clearly Byfield and Stutzle.

After that, where a guy has a stunning advantage, he's also got something just the smallest bit off about him.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

Of course, there are people here who think Price isn't that good so... If you feel that way, you might just not like any goalies and see them as a necessary evil.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm one of those guys. Goalies are a necessary evil.

But also: It's too hard to predict goalies' success, to draft them in the first round, let alone 4th overall.

And: Goalie is not really as important a position as it was in the past, because

a) There's a lot more parity in quality of goalies now than there was in the past -- the best and worst are separated by very small differences in ability and stats, and

b) So many scoring chances are now shots from the point that go through a screen and get deflected at least once, either intentionally or unintentionally, and those shots are basically a crap-shoot, either the goalie is lucky enough to be in front of it, or he isn't, and a well-positioned cardboard cutout would do just as well as Cary Price would on those shots.

This isn't 1997 and there aren't a whole lot of break-aways, one-on-one scoring chances, and end-to-end action. If it was true that Carey Price was head-and-shoulders better than the average goalie, and also that goalie was an important position, then he would have more than an average of 2 playoff wins per year for his career.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Price is an absolute f***ing stud. I actually keep forgetting how much I fricking love Carey Price as a goalie. I think it's mostly because even though he's very athletic, he's so damn good positionally that he never has to use it. He's very rarely making a highlight reel save because he doesn't have to. Highlight reel saves are made by bad goalies and Dominik Hasek. If Askarov is 80% of Price, I'm taking him 4OA easily. I don't want to put that on the kid, though. That's a pretty heady result.
Yeah, last year, you could have easily traded back to 10 and landed Spencer Knight if you wanted him.

You're right. Every guy at 4 (Raymond, Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Drysdale, etc.) all really seem like a step down.

1 was clearly Laf
2 and 3 are clearly Byfield and Stutzle.

After that, where a guy has a stunning advantage, he's also got something just the smallest bit off about him.

I still think some GM reaches ~6th for Askarov, possibly as high as 5, but should go above 9 definitely.

We're in a great position to trade down & get Askarov/Sanderson/Drysdale.