Askarov

[SirloinUB]

I feel like if it was 2002, he would be right up there as a top 3 selection. He has done a ton internationally, medaled 6x and only had 1 bad tournament. His poise and athleticism are far above where they should be as a 17yr old and he should only get better.

That being said, goalies take a lot of time for the most part to develop (I can see, if all falls right, Askarov getting a shot much earlier than most, a la Price, Fleury, Hart, etc).

When taking a forward, I feel like the risk is minimized since he can be put in a depth role if he doesn't pan out in the top 6 in the short term. A goalie, he's either a starter, backup, or paying in another league (AHL, KHL) developing.

The safer pick is Rossi/Raymond - I like Raymond as the #4.. but the homerun swing, next highest upside guy to Lafreniere/Byfield is Askarov.. but it takes a lot of guts to pour a top 5 pick into a goaltender when the return may not be seen for the next 2-3 seasons at best (and for most goaltenders that don't have the same accolades, 5-7 years).

See, this is kind of what I mean though. Askarov isn’t the only one with home run potential.

Raymond has pedigree, an international record (Askarov knows this too well), and the skill to make him a home run swing.

Cole Perfetti scored above point/game as a 16 year old rookie in the OHl, dominated the U18s, and just had a monster Draft Year.

Jamie Drysdale cracked Canada’s U20 team as a draft eligible Dman, something that’s only been done a handful of times and has a similar skill set to match two of the best draft picks in recent years (Q Hughes and Makar).

To be clear, everyone is allowed their own preferences, that’s what makes this board interesting. I love reading different opinions on these prospect but there is handful of guys with that star potential and it seems a little disingenuous to suggest that’s the reason we should take Askarov.

I do appreciate that you add some depth and reasoning to back up the idea that Askarov has star potential. I just think.a few others have it as well, so when posters point to home run swing/star potential as the deciding factor, I see a handful of guys that fit the bill.

 

[Retire91]

I wouldn't hate it although it would be a huge gamble. I wouldn't mind a team built around a Carey Price or Henrik Lundqvist, or even MAF. We have never even sniffed that luxury. The problem is goalies have huge bust potential and also have up and down seasons and if he does become a star will be hitting the 7-9 million mark on the cap very quickly.

Here is a list of the first road goalie draft picks among active players. I don't hate the odds. If we pick goalie we definitely need some more top 5 picks on forward though. Our skater core is going to be so underpowered Askarov would "have" to hit his ceiling to make it worth it.

 

[lilidk]

I believe in 3 years we are going to be very good. All prospects we have they are not that great but I believe they are kind of late bloom . It's including Zadina, Kivenmaki, Berggren, Mcissaac , Rasmussen. We need to get this draft the most NHL ready prospect, just like we did last year with Seider. My bet right now on Rossi , but if Askarov start season in KHL and wins games, yes get him

 

[jkutswings]

I kinda feel like drafting a goaltender at 4 overall in the NHL would be like drafting a kicker in the middle rounds in fantasy football. Sure, you stand a good chance of getting a better one than anybody else, but the net loss on other positions outweighs the net gain at this one.

We'll see what Yzerman values most in building a roster, but eventually you need to choose where you splurge and where you skimp. Given the option, I'll take high end starting centers/defensemen and average starting wingers/goalies.

 

[Retire91]

I kinda feel like drafting a goaltender at 4 overall in the NHL would be like drafting a kicker in the middle rounds in fantasy football. Sure, you stand a good chance of getting a better one than anybody else, but the net loss on other positions outweighs the net gain at this one.

We'll see what Yzerman values most in building a roster, but eventually you need to choose where you splurge and where you skimp. Given the option, I'll take high end starting centers/defensemen and average starting wingers/goalies.

This is a feeling i share too. I am attracted by the luxury of someone that could fill the position at all-star levels but at the same time it would come at great sacrifice to other areas sorely needed and 'good enough' goal tending still wins games

 

[Bench]

We'll see what Yzerman values most in building a roster

You guys are going to like this...

Traded Cory Conacher + 4th for Ben Bishop.

Then drafted Andrei Vasilevskiy in the 1st round. Vasilevskiy is signed to an 8 year $76 million dollar contact extension with the Lightning.

So the team he built from the ground up is about to have one of those dreaded elite goalies getting paid $9.5 million for nearly a decade.

 

[Peter Tosh]

If teams avoid picking G high, stats will show that picking G low will have equal succuess.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

If teams avoid picking G high, stats will show that picking G low will have equal succuess.

1. #of G's 2. drafted by year 3. pick# 4. over x#of years

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

If teams avoid picking G high, stats will show that picking G low will have equal succuess.

1. #of G's 2. drafted by year 3. pick# 4. over x#of years

 

[TheOtherOne]

What the f*** I'm up for it.

I get the hesitation but a goalie has a crazy amount of influence on the team. 60 minutes a night, 50+ nights a season. It's like getting a pitcher or a QB. If there's a chance we can plug in elite to that position and worry about the rest of the team over the next decade or two, I say let's f***in do it.

f***in do it.

 

[avssuc]

Askarov would be a huge mistake. Odds are you're as likely to find a top goalie outside the first round as it is that you'll find him in the first round. Better to go for skaters.

Well, the Wings have the worst group of skaters in the modern era... so does it really matter? I mean why the f**k not? Not like they're passing up Lafreniere to draft a goalie?

I guess they could wait until the 4th overall pick in 2021... with the hype around Wallstedt, they could grab him after the continued, record setting, suck... slots the Wings 4th again. Hooray!

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I’ve seen this sentiment parroted around by Askarov supporters as if it’s some fact and I find myself wondering where it came from? What about Askarov makes him the “surest star” (Biggest boom, etc.)?

If Askarov really was a surer bet to be a star he’d be the consensus 4 or 5 pick. In reality McKenzie’s list has him at 11.

To be clear, I don’t mind him but I just don’t understand why Askarov has star potential but all the guys ranked ahead him don’t?

So fair post man

What I see in Askerov is a franchise goalie.

I see the perfect combo of skill, smarts, size and athleticism that you don't see that often in a goalie at his age, and it's why you rarely see goalies drafted this high(even top 11).

Goalies do usually take longer which is perfect for us given we I think are even further away from success then we were thinking just two weeks ago(hoping for Laf and a quicker turnaround).

So why not? Roll the dice.

If Drysdale is a franchise dman or Raymond a franchise winger then sure draft them, but if not, my vote is for the guy I believe in 5 years will be more valuable to the DRW and more influential to our success.

 

[Retire91]

That is one way to look at it, is Askerov possibly the best player available at 4. The best 3 forwards are going to be gone unless someone in the top 3 reaches and takes Drysdale. Drysdale is tbe best sounding D but he is likely not franchise level talent. If Askerov is showing elite talent that is certainly what this team needs. This team doesn't just need help it needs elite talent. Anything less than elite is treading water and that is why this lottery screwed us so hard. Maybe Askerov is our only shot a elite talent at number 4.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I just saw a vid of a huge California Condor flying while holding a large shark over the beach & people.

On that note, I'm writing a song: Sugartits-Cat Psychedelic Blues.

Askarov @6-8, not @4.

Saw that video. Crazy.

 

[MBH]

I kinda feel like drafting a goaltender at 4 overall in the NHL would be like drafting a kicker in the middle rounds in fantasy football. Sure, you stand a good chance of getting a better one than anybody else, but the net loss on other positions outweighs the net gain at this one.

We'll see what Yzerman values most in building a roster, but eventually you need to choose where you splurge and where you skimp. Given the option, I'll take high end starting centers/defensemen and average starting wingers/goalies.

I don't feel that way at all.
A goalie plays 60 minutes a game.
Lidstrom played 2406 minutes in 02-03.
A starting goalie plays 3200-3800 minutes a year.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I don't feel that way at all.
A goalie plays 60 minutes a game.
Lidstrom played 2406 minutes in 02-03.
A starting goalie plays 3200-3800 minutes a year.

Unless they suck. Then they don't play those minutes.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The kid looks like he could be the real deal, but even if he is a franchise goalie I don't know that it's the best way to build a team in the cap era.

I don't feel that way at all.
A goalie plays 60 minutes a game.
Lidstrom played 2406 minutes in 02-03.
A starting goalie plays 3200-3800 minutes a year.

yes but if the team is decent the goalie spends half those minutes leaning against his crossbar while the action is at the other end.

The key isn't simply how many minutes per game, but how many minutes they're actually involved in the play.

 

[avssuc]

If teams avoid picking G high, stats will show that picking G low will have equal succuess.

Is that some sort of Chinese proverb?

 

[Bench]

The key isn't simply how many minutes per game, but how many minutes they're actually involved in the play.

Every single shot against.

I'd argue the real value comes in the playoffs, when the scoring tightens up and what separates the teams isn't as pronounced. So no, teams don't need elite goaltending to steamroll the Red Wings. Kind of low value there. But that's going to pay off more when it comes to facing the Lightning's attack.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Every single shot against.

I'd argue the real value comes in the playoffs, when the scoring tightens up and what separates the teams isn't as pronounced. So no, teams don't need elite goaltending to steamroll the Red Wings. Kind of low value there. But that's going to pay off more when it comes to facing the Lightning's attack.

Right. Obviously it's important position but I was mostly pointing out the the TOI comparison between a D-man like Lidstrom and a goalie is somewhat flawed. How many goalies would you take over having Lidstrom on the ice 28 minutes a game?

He's an intriguing prospect for sure. I wasn't kidding when I said I like that he catches rightie. I think it makes a difference. But the Wings are so lacking talent up front. Are there many teams out there who've had serious success building around a franchise goaltender in the cap era?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Right. Obviously it's important position but I was mostly pointing out the the TOI comparison between a D-man like Lidstrom and a goalie is somewhat flawed. How many goalies would you take over having Lidstrom on the ice 28 minutes a game?

He's an intriguing prospect for sure. I wasn't kidding when I said I like that he catches rightie. I think it makes a difference. But the Wings are so lacking talent up front. Are there many teams out there who've had serious success building around a franchise goaltender in the cap era?

No but likely because they stopped rebuilding when they shouldn't have.

Fortunately, Detroit will be picking top 4 in each of the next two drafts at least

 

[SuperScript29]

After reading a bit more about him and seeing more highlights, ahh what da hell, sign me up, I won't complain if we pick him at 4th.

 

[Bench]

Are there many teams out there who've had serious success building around a franchise goaltender in the cap era?

Nobody has ever built around a goalie alone, no. Just like nobody has ever built around a lone elite defender or lone elite center.

Some combination thereof is the way. And you can absolutely afford to have an elite goalie on your salary if you don't have any depth player overpays hogging up that space.

For the $3-4 million dollar difference between a league average goalie and the elite goalie, I would gladly sacrifice the 3rd line depth guy or a journeyman defender and try to replace that talent with a cheaper player. Someone who is, hmm, "good enough" as people like to say about the goalie they want.

Is the dip between Darren Helm and any number of guys working for barely above league minimum worth the difference between Jimmy Howard and Carey Price? Because that's how I see it. People get in their heads they can replace Price with Ben Bishop and end up gravy. But like... it's really hard to find Ben Bishop's for a decent price. If it was easy, everyone would have one. Instead I'm suggesting you just replace Helm with countless other guys. The different in production is barely going to be felt. But the difference in goaltending is going to be very much noticeable.

Cut money from your bottom lines. Not your starting goalie.

 

[jkutswings]

Every single shot against.

I'd argue the real value comes in the playoffs, when the scoring tightens up and what separates the teams isn't as pronounced. So no, teams don't need elite goaltending to steamroll the Red Wings. Kind of low value there. But that's going to pay off more when it comes to facing the Lightning's attack.

Like last season, when Tampa got swept out of the first round by Columbus? And Vasilevski had an 0.856 save percentage and a 3.82 GAA?

When a skater pans out, you know what you're getting. Even when a goaltender pans out, they can have stretches that are downright brutal.

 

[jkutswings]

You guys are going to like this...

Traded Cory Conacher + 4th for Ben Bishop.

Then drafted Andrei Vasilevskiy in the 1st round. Vasilevskiy is signed to an 8 year $76 million dollar contact extension with the Lightning.

So the team he built from the ground up is about to have one of those dreaded elite goalies getting paid $9.5 million for nearly a decade.

Each decision Yzerman made in Tampa Bay - and it's associated consequences - is something he can draw upon and learn from. But that doesn't imply he will duplicate any of it here.

Really, despite how much I enjoy the type of roster Tampa has, I hope their incomplete playoff success has led Yzerman to mold the Wings to be a little less "1996 Detroit", with all the flash and 62 wins, and a little more "1997 Detroit", with a little more edge and balance. Who knows...maybe the Seider pick is the start of exactly that.

And then they can emulate how the careers of Vernon and Osgood began, and use a 3rd round pick on a goalie.