Ask the Ref (Rec Hockey) Thread

[mistrhanky]

Started a thread for this, but perhaps this is the better place.

I am switching to D in beer league/rec league. D level. I have been playing wing but it is not ideal for me and D is just a more natural spot. I really have not played it much though in organized hockey. (first season). I am 6'4, 240. I can move anyone I want. What I wanted some advice on was just how much you can typically get away with in a no-check D league. This is all new to me so I honestly don't know. My first priority is clearing the crease.

Can I just push a guy out?
Do I have to keep from fully extending an arm(like getting caught holding in FB).
Can I move them with elbows or does it have to be just a body on body sumo type of thing?
Can I do anything I want with the stick short of actually pinning it against them and holding them there?

I know these must seem like amazingly basic questions, but I am an amazingly basic new(old guy) player....

 

[CoopALoop]

In no contact league, they generally refer to hitting over body contact.

You are allowed to rub a guy out on the boards (to an extent)
You are allowed to take the body (not hitting) when a guy is trying to enter the zone
You are allowed to push people around as long as it isn't interference and that you don't strike him down.

Be careful, because what I'm assuming you'll be playing in is low div hockey, alot of people are very unstable on their skates. And because you're such a big guy, you'll probably be seen as throwing your weight around on the little guys and you may get called on it.

 

[Slats432]

Going back to the hand stuff. As a goalie, I could not swat the puck out of the air with my blocker to someone? Or push the puck to my teammate with say my blocker in desperation? Am I reading that right?

There is no glove hand pass in the defensive zone. Goalie are included in that. (Every league I do.)

A little bit of a different question, but it does tie into refereeing. If you are a US citizen (only US) and you live say in Buffalo or Detroit, can you, if you go through the Hockey Canada seminars, etc, etc, work games in Canada, without having to do through stuff like work permits, etc? Same thing, if say someone lived in Windsor and wanted to do games in Greater Detroit, where there's more opportunity for games (based on population)?
Has anyone done this, without having to get more than a simple piece of paper? Seems to me, there's no issue, if you're not getting paid to ref, but what customs goon is going to believe that?

That would be a question for Uncle Sam. And all the times you cross the boarder, I am sure eventually a customs agent would rubber glove you. Not worth it.

Started a thread for this, but perhaps this is the better place.

I am switching to D in beer league/rec league. D level. I have been playing wing but it is not ideal for me and D is just a more natural spot. I really have not played it much though in organized hockey. (first season). I am 6'4, 240. I can move anyone I want. What I wanted some advice on was just how much you can typically get away with in a no-check D league. This is all new to me so I honestly don't know. My first priority is clearing the crease.

Can I just push a guy out?
Do I have to keep from fully extending an arm(like getting caught holding in FB).
Can I move them with elbows or does it have to be just a body on body sumo type of thing?
Can I do anything I want with the stick short of actually pinning it against them and holding them there?

I know these must seem like amazingly basic questions, but I am an amazingly basic new(old guy) player....

You can push a guy in front as long as it isn't inhibiting from him moving around the ice. If his back is to you, I recommend glove hand in middle of back. If you use two hands, it is hard for the ref to see if you are putting a stick on him and that might get you called. Also if your arms extend too far or too hard and knock the guy down, it is interference.

Keep your elbows down. Don't constantly whack his stick, best is constant, but not violent, stick lifts.

 

[keysersoze98]

There is no glove hand pass in the defensive zone. Goalie are included in that. (Every league I do.)

The NCAA (therefore ACHA) has a new rule this year that a hand pass is illegal in the dzone. Terrible rule, IMO. Just asking for more whistles.

 

[Slats432]

The NCAA (therefore ACHA) has a new rule this year that a hand pass is illegal in the dzone. Terrible rule, IMO. Just asking for more whistles.

I don't expect anyone posting here plays in the NCAA. As far as I know all rec leagues in Canada follow Hockey Canada rules unless otherwise stated, meaning glove pass is illegal.

(Although oddly, one league I had for a couple years allowed the glove pass from D zone to neutral zone, until enough people told the league that it was ridiculous.)

 

[newfr4u]

hand pass being illegal is a safety issue, especially at lower levels. it doesn't ruin the game. hockey will stay hockey, but it will have fewer skate to glove injuries.

i really wish refs and captains would take the time to explain that diving at opponents feet in order to swat the puck away is a dangerous play. unfortunately, players think it means they are trying hard. i think they should just call it tripping if there's no play on the puck.

 

[keysersoze98]

I don't expect anyone posting here plays in the NCAA. As far as I know all rec leagues in Canada follow Hockey Canada rules unless otherwise stated, meaning glove pass is illegal.

(Although oddly, one league I had for a couple years allowed the glove pass from D zone to neutral zone, until enough people told the league that it was ridiculous.)

I didn't expect any NCAAers, but I've seen a few ACHAers in other areas. Anyway, I was just stating that more for discussion.

I hate all the leagues trying different rules, just to be different. Dumb to me.

i really wish refs and captains would take the time to explain that diving at opponents feet in order to swat the puck away is a dangerous play. unfortunately, players think it means they are trying hard. i think they should just call it tripping if there's no play on the puck.

In USA Hockey it is tripping if you play the puck or not, due to it being a dangerous play.

"...but he got the puck!" is probably the most common coach complaint to a penalty. My reply: "You are correct, he did!".

 

[mistrhanky]

You can push a guy in front as long as it isn't inhibiting from him moving around the ice. If his back is to you, I recommend glove hand in middle of back. If you use two hands, it is hard for the ref to see if you are putting a stick on him and that might get you called. Also if your arms extend too far or too hard and knock the guy down, it is interference.

Keep your elbows down. Don't constantly whack his stick, best is constant, but not violent, stick lifts.

Thanks. Always good to get a ref's viewpoint.

 

[deeman]

Great thread. Can you please help clarify the action of hitting the puck with your stick as the is "in flight" At what point is it off limits to swat down - waist high?

Also, two observations. First, things do seem to go much better when we crack a joke with the ref early on. It turns the tables from being good guys vs bad guys to “a bunch of guys getting out of the house and getting exerciseâ€. Some refs made some funny crack at our guys and the opposing team when they are camped out on the blue line. Make it’s a much more personable time.

Second observation , I have no clue how you guys can keep track of assists. I guess reff’ing is not for the ADD crowd since I would be wondering about things like my weekend plans, when I plan to get my oil changed, ect and would be freaked out when a goal was scored since I was spaced out.

My last team would even skate over to the reffs at the end of the game and tell them they did a good job. Granted we won most of our games and were in good spirits, but I still though it was pretty classy.

 

[CoopALoop]

Great thread. Can you please help clarify the action of hitting the puck with your stick as the is "in flight" At what point is it off limits to swat down - waist high?

Also, two observations. First, things do seem to go much better when we crack a joke with the ref early on. It turns the tables from being good guys vs bad guys to “a bunch of guys getting out of the house and getting exerciseâ€. Some refs made some funny crack at our guys and the opposing team when they are camped out on the blue line. Make it’s a much more personable time.

Anything lower than 4' is a good rule of thumb. If it's higher than the crossbar and you swat it down, it'll generally be called high sticking.

Just think to yourself, regardless where you are on the ice, if I hit it at this height, would it count for a goal?

You'll be generally safe with that mindset.

 

[keysersoze98]

Great thread. Can you please help clarify the action of hitting the puck with your stick as the is "in flight" At what point is it off limits to swat down - waist high?

Also, two observations. First, things do seem to go much better when we crack a joke with the ref early on. It turns the tables from being good guys vs bad guys to “a bunch of guys getting out of the house and getting exercise”. Some refs made some funny crack at our guys and the opposing team when they are camped out on the blue line. Make it’s a much more personable time.

Second observation , I have no clue how you guys can keep track of assists. I guess reff’ing is not for the ADD crowd since I would be wondering about things like my weekend plans, when I plan to get my oil changed, ect and would be freaked out when a goal was scored since I was spaced out.

My last team would even skate over to the reffs at the end of the game and tell them they did a good job. Granted we won most of our games and were in good spirits, but I still though it was pretty classy.

USA Hockey rule is shoulder height, not the cross bar as it is in the NHL. One note on this that not many people know...it's not where the puck is when it's potentially hit with a high stick, it's where the stick is at the time. To quote the rule book: "When any part of the stick is carried above the shoulders, the entire stick is considered to be high".

Making jokes with me while I ref definitely makes the games more fun, but it won't change my calls in the game.

At least half the time a goal is scored, I ask the players or coaches for assist numbers. Especially teams without numbers on their shoulders, which is real annoying. (I'm talking league games here, not adult games.) I really hate when players just say their numbers to get an asssit...which also takes it away from a team mate that actually got the assist.

 

[mbhhofr]

I hate all the leagues trying different rules, just to be different. Dumb to me.

One year, I officiated under five different rule books. WHA, AHAUS, now USA Hockey, NCAA, High School Federation and IIHF.

 

[keysersoze98]

One year, I officiated under five different rule books. WHA, AHAUS, now USA Hockey, NCAA, High School Federation and IIHF.

One book with rule changes every 2 years is tough enough, right?

 

[Slats432]

Great thread. Can you please help clarify the action of hitting the puck with your stick as the is "in flight" At what point is it off limits to swat down - waist high?

Also, two observations. First, things do seem to go much better when we crack a joke with the ref early on. It turns the tables from being good guys vs bad guys to “a bunch of guys getting out of the house and getting exerciseâ€. Some refs made some funny crack at our guys and the opposing team when they are camped out on the blue line. Make it’s a much more personable time.

Second observation , I have no clue how you guys can keep track of assists. I guess reff’ing is not for the ADD crowd since I would be wondering about things like my weekend plans, when I plan to get my oil changed, ect and would be freaked out when a goal was scored since I was spaced out.

My last team would even skate over to the reffs at the end of the game and tell them they did a good job. Granted we won most of our games and were in good spirits, but I still though it was pretty classy.

If you aren't near the net, shoulders are a pretty good bet for hitting the puck out of the air. Anything close to chest or above could be whistled down depending on where both refs are, and their angle of view. Near the net it is crossbar.

Assists are one of the ways I keep in the game, keeps me sharp. Almost like I am doing a play by play in my head to ensure the accuracy.

"Ok, here we go, puck off the tender. #17 white picked it up. Chipped it out, bounced off of #12 blue but over to #9 white, #17 still good, #9 white skates in , pass to #10 white...scores." Skate to blueline and wait for partner...parnter says.."9 from 10?"..."Yes, plus #17 on the back."..."Gotcha."

Some guys are really good, but some of the best refs in some areas are the worst on scoring. I try to be good in every aspect. Guys work hard for their points, and they all look at the scoresheet.

 

[OkimLom]

Question 1: Would I reverse a call?
This is all circumstance related. I have had calls where I have talked to my partner, and through discussion, he with a totally clear view, and mine somewhat obstructed, in certain instances, I have overruled my own call. Very rare though. I wouldn't let a player's opinion of a call change my mind, only my partner if he had a better view. You can't afford as a ref to allow for players to "lobby" for calls and be wishy washy.

Question 2: Was it a penalty? You can still be called for holding with two hands on the stick if your hands are in a place that prevents a player from moving forward. If it was a stick lift and your hands aren't touching him in any way, then it isn't a call.

Question 3: Does the approach of a player affect how I view the player?

After reffing the same guys for years, you know them. You know what they are capable of doing, and whether they are dirty. You also know there are players that seemingly get mauled out there, and the guys that do the mauling.

If a guy is a good honest player, is it possible for the odd call go his way because of the type of player he is? Sure, but if a call is there, a call is there. For example, an accidental collision vs. body contact.

There were a bunch of questions there, let me know if there is something I didn't cover.

Nope, got everything. Like I said I was surprised it was reversed.

Never experienced that before. I was thinking maybe the other ref saw it, but I figured there was no way they would reverse it.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Beville]

I'm the worst when it comes to assists...

Course, if you think you're the next Ovechkin and decide that you want to keep your jersey tucked in after numerous warnings, you're not getting a point...

 

[Slats432]

Just once....

 

[CoopALoop]

Just once....

I to would love to push down a ref.

 

[Slats432]

I to would love to push down a ref.

LOL. You funny guy.

 

[newfr4u]

Just once....

hahaha, i like how the ref shows the proper etiquette of removing hit bucket first.

 

[cowboy82nd]

hahaha, i like how the ref shows the proper etiquette of removing hit bucket first.

I think that both the ref and the player deserve to be suspended for the rest of the year.

 

[Slats432]

I think that both the ref and the player deserve to be suspended for the rest of the year.

Agreed, but refs in general don't abuse hockey players, so it was at least funny to see one go after a guy.

 

[Phil Connors*]

Alright I'm a ref of 10 years myself, but I'd like to get your insight on what, if anything, you would call in this situation.

Contact league, touch up offsides.
Play is in offensive zone, puck barely comes out, team dumps it back in offsides. As team is clearing the zone, defensive team player picks it up and passes by a offensive player leaving the zone. Now, offensive team player skates as if he is going to clear the zone, but as passing by the defensive player with the puck lays him out (shoulder to shoulder, shoulder to chest, something that is clean). What's the call? Just intentional offsides.
I've seen situations like this and it never happens (either because it's dirty, or there is a penalty). When imagining this think of high speed. The player who has the puck is completely defenseless because he thinks the player will clear the zone since it's offsides, but instead gets laid out.

I can't think of a way to give the player any penalty, even though it is a very cheap move.

 

[Summer Rose]

Alright I'm a ref of 10 years myself, but I'd like to get your insight on what, if anything, you would call in this situation.

Contact league, touch up offsides.
Play is in offensive zone, puck barely comes out, team dumps it back in offsides. As team is clearing the zone, defensive team player picks it up and passes by a offensive player leaving the zone. Now, offensive team player skates as if he is going to clear the zone, but as passing by the defensive player with the puck lays him out (shoulder to shoulder, shoulder to chest, something that is clean). What's the call? Just intentional offsides.
I've seen situations like this and it never happens (either because it's dirty, or there is a penalty). When imagining this think of high speed. The player who has the puck is completely defenseless because he thinks the player will clear the zone since it's offsides, but instead gets laid out.

I can't think of a way to give the player any penalty, even though it is a very cheap move.

By my interpretation of the rules as a USA Hockey official, intentional offsides is definite, and unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct could be called as minor penalties against the offside attacking player delivering the hit.

 

[Slats432]

Alright I'm a ref of 10 years myself, but I'd like to get your insight on what, if anything, you would call in this situation.

Contact league, touch up offsides.
Play is in offensive zone, puck barely comes out, team dumps it back in offsides. As team is clearing the zone, defensive team player picks it up and passes by a offensive player leaving the zone. Now, offensive team player skates as if he is going to clear the zone, but as passing by the defensive player with the puck lays him out (shoulder to shoulder, shoulder to chest, something that is clean). What's the call? Just intentional offsides.
I've seen situations like this and it never happens (either because it's dirty, or there is a penalty). When imagining this think of high speed. The player who has the puck is completely defenseless because he thinks the player will clear the zone since it's offsides, but instead gets laid out.

I can't think of a way to give the player any penalty, even though it is a very cheap move.

There is no penalty for being a dick or half the guys I ref would be in the box all the time.

The only call I see is intentional offsides.

Also, for the record, I have never missed a call as bad as the one on Matt Duchene's offside.