As younger GM's start replacing the old guard will we see offer sheets being used again?

[Dexter Colt]

Many people fall susceptible to herd-like thinking once they enter a community. Thus, it's highly plausible that a new GM will avoid rocking the boat with an offer sheet.

E.g. think of young graduates full of ideals quickly becoming corporate hacks, members of old boys' clubs, etc.

 

[Hasbro]

Teams always match. There’s no point in negotiating another team’s contract for their own player.

Pretty much, but that does prevent a team from saying to a player "We're only giving you the mandate 10% raise until UFA." otherwise a team could swoop in with a raise.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Except the Bruins would have matched the offer.

Putting them over the cap ceiling with about 2 weeks (as of the trade date) to get under and they can't trade Kessel for one year. Maybe they sign it, maybe they don't, but either way Toronto is better off signing him than trading for him.

 

[tp71]

Offer sheets should happen if it makes sense to happen. I think the problem is we focus on the big name players but offer sheets could be very effective in the mid range.

Like for example, is Domi worth taking a risk on at an offer sheet of 4m for 2 years? That would cost only a 2nd round pick and I would pay the price for that.

A slight overpayment for a short term deal is worth considering. How many teams will give up a 2nd at the deadline for a garbage player? Offer sheet a guy and then if he doesn't perform well enough (say Domi only produces 30 pts), then you dont have to qualify him after 2 years and you got a 30 pt player for a 2nd round pick, or you bid montreal up on the contract.

I don't think the big names is where the real offer sheet potential is.

I think most teams would just match that offer and render it completely pointless.

 

[tony d]

Be nice to see it, would bring some more excitement back to the NHL offseason.

 

[Stand Witness]

I think most teams would just match that offer and render it completely pointless.

I agree that Montreal would match that, but now all of a sudden they are paying Domi 4m per season instead of 3.1m per season.

At some point these small things will add up.

 

[Claypool]

Pretty much, but that does prevent a team from saying to a player "We're only giving you the mandate 10% raise until UFA." otherwise a team could swoop in with a raise.

Franchise-type players don't have to worry about that. It's guys like Athanasiou or Anderson that think they worth more than what they actually are. Opposing teams aren't going to overpay for those types of players with an offersheet, either.

 

[Hasbro]

Franchise-type players don't have to worry about that. It's guys like Athanasiou or Anderson that think they worth more than what they actually are. Opposing teams aren't going to overpay for those types of players with an offersheet, either.

If they had exclusive rights until UFA, the only real weapons a star player would have would be holding out or going to another league.

 

[Stand Witness]

Franchise-type players don't have to worry about that. It's guys like Athanasiou or Anderson that think they worth more than what they actually are. Opposing teams aren't going to overpay for those types of players with an offersheet, either.

I think it would make sense to strategically offer sheet both guys. 20 goal scorer for a 2nd round pick? Probably what you would pay minimum at the deadline.

 

[tp71]

I agree that Montreal would match that, but now all of a sudden they are paying Domi 4m per season instead of 3.1m per season.

At some point these small things will add up.

At the same time, Domi himself would have to agree to sign that offer sheet.

And if Toronto did that to Montreal to force those things to add up, what's stopping them from turning around and doing that to Toronto's RFAs?

 

[Stand Witness]

At the same time, Domi himself would have to agree to sign that offer sheet.

And if Toronto did that to Montreal to force those things to add up, what's stopping them from turning around and doing that to Toronto's RFAs?

He would, but it would also make sense for him to look out for his best interest.

Nothing at all and thats the best part about it. If we offersheeted Domi and they turn around and offer sheet Nylander that would be one hell of an offseason.

Next we are talking about if it makes sense for the Leafs to let Nylander go because of the price or to match it.

 

[TheNumber4]

Offer sheets are designed to tough on the team that gives them too. Its not just GMs being too careful not to piss off their COMPETITORS. It's also that multiple picks that need to go the other way combined with paying slightly above market value for the player you are offer sheeting.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I agree that Montreal would match that, but now all of a sudden they are paying Domi 4m per season instead of 3.1m per season.

At some point these small things will add up.

So then Toronto wouldn't offer sheet again if Montreal didn't match....because these small things add up.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

They're usually pointless IMO. If the contract is reasonable then it shouldn't be an issue. Idiots like Brian Burke lose their minds over it due to ego. It's like someone stole their car. He legitimately thought Penner signing that deal was going to inflate the market.

 

[GodEmperor]

Teams probably have economists modelling not only the cost of sending offer sheets, but the long term ramifications:

1.You overpay for the player

2.You probably don't even get them

3.You incentivize other people do the same with your players

4.GMS get very mad at you for doing things they perceive to be outside of the norms

In short, contract offers are the face licks of GMing.

 

[FerrisRox]

Putting them over the cap ceiling with about 2 weeks (as of the trade date) to get under and they can't trade Kessel for one year. Maybe they sign it, maybe they don't, but either way Toronto is better off signing him than trading for him.

They absolutely sign it. There's zero question about that.

 

[Daximus]

There's just to much to lose in doing it. You sour relations with other GM's and you give up quite a bit of your future. GM's are starting to realise the importance of building from the draft. Especially the younger GM's like Chayka and Dubas who are analytical in their background. The draft is their safe place.
An offer sheet is basically an act of war towards another GM. They want to avoid it these days. The only way we ever see offer sheets become a common occurrence is if the compensation for them is reduced, which is unlikely to happen.

 

[Kahvi]

The whole thing with offer sheets is the player has to sign it as well. Unless someone goes absolutely bat**** insane with what they're offering (see Oilers offer to Vanek or the Flyers Weber offer) they're not signing unless it's just flat out as a last resort.

And if player doesnt sign it, it doesnt come public and people complain that offersheets are not used

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Probably not because you don't really want to piss of other GMs if you can avoid it

Kinda like going after your buddy's girlfriend. Legal but not really cool either

Terrible analogy. You don’t compete against your buddy for his girlfriend.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The Sharks have made multiple trades with the Hawks since the failed Hjalmarsson offersheet (which caused the Sharks to snatch Niemi). The “retaliation” aspect is overrated. So long as you don’t have an elite young player approaching RFA status (Matthews/Marner/Nylander, for example, so the Leafs would not be smart to give someone else’s player an offersheet), then you have nothing to fear. And any GM that refuses to deal with a certain team just because of a failed offersheet is just limiting his options. If the offersheet works, then who cares about the consequences. Imagine the Sharks had offersheeted Martin Jones. They could have paid a 2nd round pick for him instead of a 1st, and lost nothing because it’s not like we make deals with LA anyway.

 

[ps241]

Good thread idea. I think the lack of use of this tool has been debated well so far and I don’t have allot to add there.

One comment on the “old boys club” it sounds negative but it’s the real world. Dubas and Chyka are “probably” smart enough guys to understand that they are currently auditioning for their next job right now if they want to stay in hockey. That does not mean you can’t offer sheet and if it was less punitive it would happen more often but once you make it to the show as an “hockey exec” it makes allot of sense to keep building relationships while trying to win. You will need one of those other guys to hire you at some point in the future because for most of these guys their skill set is best deployed in the hockey world and that’s what they seem to love doing.

For example Jim Nill has played hockey, scouted, and managed in the hockey world since he was 10 years old. General Motors wasn’t hiring him when he was 35 to be an executive and they aren’t hiring him now. The vast majority of these guys are “hockey guys”. Not only do they think like hockey guys and love what they do but there is not an abundance of cross over to their skill set, most (not all) of them are pretty specialized.

 

[613Leafer]

Offersheets aren't really used because by definition, you pretty much have to overpay to try to prevent the other team from matching. But the more you overpay in $$, the more you give up in picks. Which means you're overpaying twice (caphit + picks given up).

If you make an offersheet that you actually think is a good deal, with a half-decent caphit and picks given up aren't worth the player you're getting - then the other team will match.

Eight offersheets have been signed since the 2004 lockout, and 7 of them have been matched. I don't think offersheets are avoided out of "respect" between GMs - they're avoided because they simply don't work.

 

[BruinLVGA]

No. They might be young, but not stupid. Stomping on each other's feet wouldn't benefit anyone. Offer sheets will remain a rare event.

 

[IWD]

Except the Bruins would have matched the offer.

And hurt their cap in the process. They were trying to hold onto Krejci and Kessel, but wanted Kessel at a better cap hit. Burke took advantage of the situation, and made it clear that he was going to offer sheet Kessel regardless. Turning the 3rd into a 1st was essentially the extra cost of acquisition.

 

[Legionnaire]

Maybe. Young people are pretty stupid.