Confirmed with Link: Artturi Lehkonen (50% Retained) Traded to Colorado for a 2024 2nd Round Pick & Justin Barron

[TT1]

It does, because just like draft picks when you trade for them you're adding to your pool. Not all draft picks will work out, just as not all prospects will. But you add to the pool, amd you don't expect everyone to pan out.

you're making assumptions so i can also assume that instead of the 100 prospects we picked we could have moved some of those picks for Newhook, it's not like we weren't stacked with picks or prospects

i don't think that 2nd round pick (in 2024) we got for Lehkonen is what sealed the deal on getting Newhook lol

and now we need a winger like Lehkonen and have a ton of young Dmen coming up, so in the end it also ended up being bad asset management need-wise

 

[Ezpz]

A great gamble. Better to acquire a Barron than a random late first.

Not only that but anyone blaming Hughes is moronic. Bergevin poison pilled him by timing some extra extensions like Suzuki's on top of spending completely to the cap so Hughes walked into the job being 8 mil over the cap for the following season. Toffoli and Lehkonen getting good returns was amazing considering how f***ed the cap was.

 

[Redux91]

Well
I just plain miss him is all lol
Regardless how it all turns out

I'm just glad he got to spread his wings a little bit somewhere else, always knew he had a little something extra in the tank/toolkit, all he needed was a shot with better players, and all of sudden he himself looks better lol
Hey, good for him
I'll love that kid forever, and happy for his success

 

[TT1]

Well
I just plain miss him is all lol
Regardless how it all turns out

I'm just glad he got to spread his wings a little bit somewhere else, always knew he had a little something extra in the tank/toolkit, all he needed was a shot with better players, and all of sudden he himself looks better lol
Hey, good for him
I'll love that kid forever, and happy for his success

yup same, he was my fav Hab so ultimately i'm happy for him, always love seeing someone with his work ethic and character succeeding, it was clear as day that he was an A+++ person

 

[Milhouse40]

at the time we had Lehk he wouldn't have gotten anything close to 4.5M lol, we would have been able to lock him up for cheap long term, he got that $ after what he did for Colorado (basically being 1 of the big reasons why they won the Cup)

it would have been an extremely high value signing for us, he would have been with the team for 6-7 years and age-wise he was a perfect fit to help our young core, not to mention his character etc.

I said all this when we traded him btw, i was against trading him all together and got a lot of shit for it. What Lehkonen adds to the team in terms of character/work ethic/his playstyle goes far beyond what you can get for him in a trade, you don't move those type of players when they're still young.

Yeah, he was going to get around 40 points with us that season, and I agree with many things you said about his character, work ethic and all that.......you still think we would have been able to lock up all his UFA prime years for a lot less than 4.5M$? Are you serious? Canada vs USA taxes?

No he would have cost easily above $4M, his agent is not a moron and that, no matter how you split it, would have not sit well with the fan base at that time considering the rebuild and we had already too many middle six players on similar contract.

 

[WinterLion]

Barron is a RHD which was a huge organizational need at the time...just sayin'

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

You missed the point.

My premise: When you trade for prospects / picks, they are not guaranteed. Their value is based on when they were traded, not what they become after. Because you can't predict, even with scouting etc.

When trading an established NHL player for picks and prospects, the value of the trade is based on the return at the time of the trade. The Suzuki example highlights this. If the Habs traded Suzuki for a 7th round pick and that pick surprised everyone to become a superstar player, did the Hasb win that trade? Obviously not. It was a bad trade regardless of how the 7th rounder turned out.

At the time of the trade Barron was a well regarded prospect RHD. The alternative was to receive Hellesson from the Avs. Note that the Avs were devoid of bluechip prospects.

You still don't seem to get it, or maybe the shine hasn't worn off and the management can do no wrong in your eyes.

If Barron busts completely, we can't just chalk it up as a lottery ticket. He was scouted and desired specifically for what he brought to the table. If it turns out that he brings nothing to the table, it is a failed trade.

I'm not closing the door on Barron either, I'm just saying that IF he busts, it is further proof that our pro scouting needs serious work, or that they at least failed on ONE trade.

They are the ones being paid incredibly well to determine who is and who isn't going to be a valuable player. If we trade a player who ends up having very high value, for a player who has very low value, it is not a good trade, even if the value looked good on paper at the time.

this is wrong.

projectability has value that changes: at that time, he looked good.

Avs fans who had seen him a lot more than us weren't very high on him and were very happy to move him in a deal for a better player.

If the management is unable to project a players value well, why the hell were they hired for the job? It is literally their main job.

 

[DAChampion]

Avs fans who had seen him a lot more than us weren't very high on him and were very happy to move him in a deal for a better player.

And?

By the way Habs fans were predominantly "not very high" on Lehkonen.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You still don't seem to get it, or maybe the shine hasn't worn off and the management can do no wrong in your eyes.

If Barron busts completely, we can't just chalk it up as a lottery ticket. He was scouted and desired specifically for what he brought to the table. If it turns out that he brings nothing to the table, it is a failed trade.

I'm not closing the door on Barron either, I'm just saying that IF he busts, it is further proof that our pro scouting needs serious work, or that they at least failed on ONE trade.

They are the ones being paid incredibly well to determine who is and who isn't going to be a valuable player. If we trade a player who ends up having very high value, for a player who has very low value, it is not a good trade, even if the value looked good on paper at the time.


Avs fans who had seen him a lot more than us weren't very high on him and were very happy to move him in a deal for a better player.

If the management is unable to project a players value well, why the hell were they hired for the job? It is literally their main job.

No, its you that is incapable of understanding logic. But that's ok.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Just speculation on my part but I bet the Habs asked Holloway from the Oilers. Why? He played with Cole in Wisconsin.

They probably counter with Bourgault, and the Avs added a 2nd pick with Barron to win the bid.

They lost to Vegas btw and as we know Lehk eliminated Vegas twice so maybe keeping Holloway cost them the CUP(!)

 

[MasterD]

you're making assumptions so i can also assume that instead of the 100 prospects we picked we could have moved some of those picks for Newhook, it's not like we weren't stacked with picks or prospects

i don't think that 2nd round pick (in 2024) we got for Lehkonen is what sealed the deal on getting Newhook lol

and now we need a winger like Lehkonen and have a ton of young Dmen coming up, so in the end it also ended up being bad asset management need-wise

No we don't. Not right now. We need to develop top end offensive guys, and get a real #1 goalie. A two-way W is not what the Habs lack at this point in time.

 

[Milhouse40]

You still don't seem to get it, or maybe the shine hasn't worn off and the management can do no wrong in your eyes.

If Barron busts completely, we can't just chalk it up as a lottery ticket. He was scouted and desired specifically for what he brought to the table. If it turns out that he brings nothing to the table, it is a failed trade.

I'm not closing the door on Barron either, I'm just saying that IF he busts, it is further proof that our pro scouting needs serious work, or that they at least failed on ONE trade.

They are the ones being paid incredibly well to determine who is and who isn't going to be a valuable player. If we trade a player who ends up having very high value, for a player who has very low value, it is not a good trade, even if the value looked good on paper at the time.


Avs fans who had seen him a lot more than us weren't very high on him and were very happy to move him in a deal for a better player.

If the management is unable to project a players value well, why the hell were they hired for the job? It is literally their main job.

Not one management will hit 100%

It's not about management can do no wrong.....it's about dealing with young prospect.
It needs patience and a lots of it, especially for a D

He already have 17pts in 47 games in the NHL
He's up to 43pts in 77 games in the AHL.

Barron is the 12th youngest D-men out 223 to have played at least 1 game in the NHL this year.

Now you can question management's ability to project a player but I think the projection is still pretty interesting to me today.

Let's evaluate that trade when we'll be able to do so......and it will take a couple of years.

 

[26Mats]

you're making assumptions so i can also assume that instead of the 100 prospects we picked we could have moved some of those picks for Newhook, it's not like we weren't stacked with picks or prospects

i don't think that 2nd round pick (in 2024) we got for Lehkonen is what sealed the deal on getting Newhook lol

and now we need a winger like Lehkonen and have a ton of young Dmen coming up, so in the end it also ended up being bad asset management need-wise

Lehkonen has proven he can produce with stars. He had many opportunities to produce here, and didn't. I hope he has a good, long productive career. But, we needed to get younger.

At the end of the day it's fine to analyze one move in isolation and it's fine to analyze all the moves together and make a judgement accordingly. Either way, we'll see what Barron becomes...And what Newhook becomes... the two young players we've snagged from Colorado.

 

[yianik]

Such a cool story about Jackeye. Wish I had seen where that came from. The guy is totally grounded and will never forget how far he came. Credit to him and his parents.

Thx for sharing.

Stu Cowan: NHL longshot Arber Xhekaj flips script for Canadiens

After not being drafted in OHL or NHL, he is No. 1 among rookie defencemen with five goals and is No. 2 in the league in penalty minutes (72).

montrealgazette.com

I hope he has a great career, and never forgets where he came from.

 

[Habnot]

If you read Kobe on all the threads you soon get the picture that he/she is on a mission to discredit this management group.

There are a group out here that are contrarians, and since this management group is still getting lots of love from the fanbase - they must take the other side - just because.

You go through all 32 franchises, they all have bad contracts, bad draft picks, questionable trades etc. Not waiting a minimum of 3 years - if not 5 - to make assessments is ridiculous.

I know it was only half a season but he averaged .38 ppg only behind Matheson and Guhle (who was at .4). I'm not saying he's a finished product but how does bust even get into the discussion?

 

[Mudz]

Hutson and Barron is one hell of a TDL trade.

Habs fans were laughed at for wanting a 2nd.

 

[LaP]

Lehkonen has proven he can produce with stars. He had many opportunities to produce here, and didn't. I hope he has a good, long productive career. But, we needed to get younger.

At the end of the day it's fine to analyze one move in isolation and it's fine to analyze all the moves together and make a judgement accordingly. Either way, we'll see what Barron becomes...And what Newhook becomes... the two young players we've snagged from Colorado.

Yes it's fine. But some here are way way way too quick to pose a final judgement on trades involving young players. They act like if they were better than NHL pro and amateur scouts. It's ok to have an opinion on a young player or a trade involving a young player. But it's another thing to say this guy will never be good when he's under 23. I've watched the NHL enough over the years to be confident to say you should never pose a final judgement on a kid before he turns 23.

 

[Milhouse40]

Yes it's fine. But some here are way way way too quick to pose a final judgement on trades involving young players. They act like if they were better than NHL pro and amateur scouts. It's ok to have an opinion on a young player or a trade involving a young player. But it's another thing to say this guy will never be good when he's under 23. I've watched the NHL enough over the years to be confident to say you should never pose a final judgement on a kid before he turns 23.

It's kind of funny in this case as they complained for trading a player that took 5 years to finally put it all together at 26 years old.

 

[LaP]

It's kind of funny in this case as they complained for trading a player that took 5 years to finally put it all together at 26 years old.

Disclaimer development is not linear bla bla bla but from my time watching hockey over the years i think there's grossly 3 stage of development.

18-19 : you can't conclude anything it's just potential
20-21-22 : you have an idea if it's going to be an elite players or not but that's about it
23-24-25 : you have an idea if it's going to be a NHL player or not can still progress but not by a big step and it's usually safe to give up at 25

Again development is not linear all players are different bla bla bla but from the most part i stick by this when i evaluate kids not perfect but hey i'm not a pro scout so i do what i can lol

 

[Rapala]

And?

By the way Habs fans were predominantly "not very high" on Lehkonen.

Like Eller they only complained about what he wasn't. (for this club)
Never any credit for what he was.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes it's fine. But some here are way way way too quick to pose a final judgement on trades involving young players. They act like if they were better than NHL pro and amateur scouts. It's ok to have an opinion on a young player or a trade involving a young player. But it's another thing to say this guy will never be good when he's under 23. I've watched the NHL enough over the years to be confident to say you should never pose a final judgement on a kid before he turns 23.

A year ago Habs fans overwhelmingly would not claim KK if he were put on waivers due to a hypothetical Carolina cap crunch, or offered free in trade like Patches was.

 

[Scintillating10]

I am happy with trade. Barron is 21 year old right D with top 4 upside. We still have 2nd round pick. Moved around 4 million in caproom.

 

[ReHabs]

Lehkonen is a smart hockey player who was snakebit with us -- he wouldn't have had this success had he stayed on the Habs, we don't need to act like the sky is falling. I think @Kobe Armstrong's point is pretty self evident. If the Habs targeted Barron specifically and Barron doesn't ever become a regular NHL player, then it was a bad outcome and brings into question their scouting ability.

The Lehkonen trade reminds me of the Sergachev-Drouin trade. It would make a lot more sense if other moves were made in the same direction. Failing to sell Anderson, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin made the so-called firesale look a lot less impressive. All Hughes did was get rid of our best NHL assets -- something a monkey could do. Similarly, acquiring Drouin was a win-now move which would've made more sense if the Habs retained Radulov and Markov and acquired another player... instead...

 

[the valiant effort]

Imagine the HF reaction if it was revealed Hughes sat down with Lehkonen and found out Lehks didn’t want to re-sign here on a rebuilding team

 

[ReHabs]

Imagine the HF reaction if it was revealed Hughes sat down with Lehkonen and found out Lehks didn’t want to re-sign here on a rebuilding team

I don't suspect it would be any different. You have to get the best possible return -- if they targeted Barron, they better have been right about it.