Confirmed with Link: Artturi Lehkonen (50% Retained) Traded to Colorado for a 2024 2nd Round Pick & Justin Barron

[nhlfan9191]

Lehkonen is a smart hockey player who was snakebit with us -- he wouldn't have had this success had he stayed on the Habs, we don't need to act like the sky is falling. I think @Kobe Armstrong's point is pretty self evident. If the Habs targeted Barron specifically and Barron doesn't ever become a regular NHL player, then it was a bad outcome and brings into question their scouting ability.

The Lehkonen trade reminds me of the Sergachev-Drouin trade. It would make a lot more sense if other moves were made in the same direction. Failing to sell Anderson, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin made the so-called firesale look a lot less impressive. All Hughes did was get rid of our best NHL assets -- something a monkey could do. Similarly, acquiring Drouin was a win-now move which would've made more sense if the Habs retained Radulov and Markov and acquired another player... instead...

Lehkonen wasn’t a fit with us anymore. Hughes did what he was suppose to at the time which is bring in futures to start the rebuild. He got what was a decent RHD prospect at the time back for him. It was a good return for a 26 year old forward with a career high of 31 points in 6 NHL seasons. It’s nice to see him doing well in Colorado but he didn’t fit the timeline in anyway here nor did we have the players to help him elevate his game. Also, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin weren’t worth anything. Not sure what you were expecting there. We’re still waiting on something to happen with Anderson. He can still be sold at anytime.

 

[ReHabs]

Lehkonen wasn’t a fit with us anymore. Hughes did what he was suppose to at the time which is bring in futures to start the rebuild. He got what was a decent RHD prospect at the time back for him. It was a good return for a 26 year old forward with a career high of 31 points in 6 NHL seasons. It’s nice to see him doing well in Colorado but he didn’t fit the timeline in anyway here nor did we have the players to help him elevate his game. Also, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin weren’t worth anything. Not sure what you were expecting there. We’re still waiting on something to happen with Anderson. He can still be sold at anytime.

I argued the same thing -- Lehkonen didn't fit the rebuild -- but then retaining injury prone Josh Anderson is inexplicable in that context. It seems like a botched rebuild. His value is certainly not higher today. As for the others, I wasn't expecting much but for a supposed master seller Hughes didn't manage to sell anybody else. We can find excuses for every single instance, sure, but where does that get us? What if Josh Anderson gets injured tomorrow, we can probably find an excuse for Hughes even then. Excuses are plentiful in Montreal.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I argued the same thing -- Lehkonen didn't fit the rebuild -- but then retaining injury prone Josh Anderson is inexplicable in that context. It seems like a botched rebuild. His value is certainly not higher today. As for the others, I wasn't expecting much but for a supposed master seller Hughes didn't manage to sell anybody else. We can find excuses for every single instance, sure, but where does that get us? What if Josh Anderson gets injured tomorrow, we can probably find an excuse for Hughes even then. Excuses are plentiful in Montreal.

Honestly, I can see Anderson’s contract being more appealing with less term. We can talk hypotheticals, but Anderson hasn’t been injured and is playing so you can’t crucify HuGo for something that hasn’t happened. They sold all the pieces they had too outside of Anderson but that’s still pending. The only return that was underwhelming was Toffoli but no GM can be perfect on every trade. I thought the moves they made for players like Dach and Newhook were decent. Time will tell but this team is/was a mess. There’s no way to fast track this, especially playing in a division as good as the Atlantic. It’s going to be a slow process. Hopefully the Atlantic gets weaker when we start competing again but it’s likely going to be a few years still before that happens. Bergevin put all his eggs into one basket with the last core and they’re all retired, gone or broken beyond repair now. We basically had to start from scratch.

 

[ReHabs]

Honestly, I can see Anderson’s contract being more appealing with less term. We can talk hypotheticals, but Anderson hasn’t been injured and is playing so you can’t crucify HuGo for something that hasn’t happened. They sold all the pieces they had too outside of Anderson but that’s still pending. The only return that was underwhelming was Toffoli but no GM can be perfect on every trade. I thought the moves they made for players like Dach and Newhook were decent. Time will tell but this team is/was a mess. There’s no way to fast track this, especially playing in a division as good as the Atlantic. It’s going to be a slow process. Hopefully the Atlantic gets weaker when we start competing again but it’s likely going to be a few years still before that happens. Bergevin put all his eggs into one basket with the last core and they’re all retired, gone or broken beyond repair now. We basically had to start from scratch.

I don't think it's fair to say Hughes started from scratch. He was gift-wrapped a tank (which lead to the 1OA, 33OA, etc), he was gift-wrapped inflated-value players coming off a Finals run (Chiarot being his best trade), and he was gift-wrapped Caufield and Suzuki and a media and fanbase who were ready for a rebuild and comfortable with a firesale and reset. It's not nothing. He didn't inherit a Carey Price or a PK Subban but it was not from scratch.

It's true we don't need to constantly reevaluate a handful of moves he's made in the last c. 20months but in the context of this Lehkonen trade I feel like there are three factors:
1. Lehkonen's age profile
2. Lehkonen's perceived salary demands
3. Lehkonen's trade return

1. His age profile didn't match the Suzuki-Caufield-Guhle-[1OA] age profile, a trade away made sense. But why didn't Hughes trade Anderson?

2. His perceived salary demands could have clashed with our cap issues but with Price and Weber on permanent LTIR, I think if there was an actual interest in retaining Lehkonen that it could've been managed.

3. His return was only good in as much as Justin Barron was the right player to target. So far it is TBD.

I think it's fair to have some doubts about Hughes at this stage, he hasn't accomplished anything. It's not fair to demand his firing or to say he's done a bad job... but it's not fair to say he's done a good job either. The Lehkonen trade is a decent microcosm of Hughes' tenure so far: can make sense and we need more time to evaluate but it's not a clear W either.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I don't think it's fair to say Hughes started from scratch. He was gift-wrapped a tank (which lead to the 1OA, 33OA, etc), he was gift-wrapped inflated-value players coming off a Finals run (Chiarot being his best trade), and he was gift-wrapped Caufield and Suzuki and a media and fanbase who were ready for a rebuild and comfortable with a firesale and reset. It's not nothing. He didn't inherit a Carey Price or a PK Subban but it was not from scratch.

It's true we don't need to constantly reevaluate a handful of moves he's made in the last c. 20months but in the context of this Lehkonen trade I feel like there are three factors:
1. Lehkonen's age profile
2. Lehkonen's perceived salary demands
3. Lehkonen's trade return

1. His age profile didn't match the Suzuki-Caufield-Guhle-[1OA] age profile, a trade away made sense. But why didn't Hughes trade Anderson?

2. His perceived salary demands could have clashed with our cap issues but with Price and Weber on permanent LTIR, I think if there was an actual interest in retaining Lehkonen that it could've been managed.

3. His return was only good in as much as Justin Barron was the right player to target. So far it is TBD.

I think it's fair to have some doubts about Hughes at this stage, he hasn't accomplished anything. It's not fair to demand his firing or to say he's done a bad job... but it's not fair to say he's done a good job either. The Lehkonen trade is a decent microcosm of Hughes' tenure so far: can make sense and we need more time to evaluate but it's not a clear W either.

If you’re arguement is that it’s too early to praise Hughes work overall, then I agree. But it’s also way too early to criticize it as well. A lot of the moves he’s made were fair in value. Lehkonen just wasn’t worth a blue chip prospect at the time and he was entering his prime so it’s unlikely he wanted to sit around here while we were going threw a scorched earth rebuild. The return we got was fair. There’s not much to say about Josh Anderson. The juries still out on how that turns out but it doesn’t help that Bergevin gave him so much money. He’s an expensive complementary piece. I’m sure contenders would love to have him but it’s hard to fit a guy like that in with a flat cap and us unlikely to use up a retention spot over the span of multiple years. That’s a tricky trade.

This management has a unique way of valuing young talent. They are less about the magic beans and more about getting at least somewhat proven commodities that are a little older instead. Only time will tell if the pro scouts are any good at doing their jobs. If they miss on a lot of the players they’re trading for like a Newhook for instance, then they’ll find themselves under the microscope very quickly. But we’re still far from that point yet. So many things have to play out.

 

[DAChampion]

Lehkonen is a smart hockey player who was snakebit with us -- he wouldn't have had this success had he stayed on the Habs, we don't need to act like the sky is falling. I think @Kobe Armstrong's point is pretty self evident. If the Habs targeted Barron specifically and Barron doesn't ever become a regular NHL player, then it was a bad outcome and brings into question their scouting ability.

The Lehkonen trade reminds me of the Sergachev-Drouin trade. It would make a lot more sense if other moves were made in the same direction. Failing to sell Anderson, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin made the so-called firesale look a lot less impressive. All Hughes did was get rid of our best NHL assets -- something a monkey could do. Similarly, acquiring Drouin was a win-now move which would've made more sense if the Habs retained Radulov and Markov and acquired another player... instead...

I think it's unlikely that Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin had positive value. But it would have been better to trade Anderson.

 

[26Mats]

Lehkonen is a smart hockey player who was snakebit with us -- he wouldn't have had this success had he stayed on the Habs, we don't need to act like the sky is falling. I think @Kobe Armstrong's point is pretty self evident. If the Habs targeted Barron specifically and Barron doesn't ever become a regular NHL player, then it was a bad outcome and brings into question their scouting ability.

The Lehkonen trade reminds me of the Sergachev-Drouin trade. It would make a lot more sense if other moves were made in the same direction. Failing to sell Anderson, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin made the so-called firesale look a lot less impressive. All Hughes did was get rid of our best NHL assets -- something a monkey could do. Similarly, acquiring Drouin was a win-now move which would've made more sense if the Habs retained Radulov and Markov and acquired another player... instead...

Let's look at the moves:
- Chiarot for a 1st - great return
- Kulak for a 2nd + a 7th - great return
- Toffoli for a 1st + Heineman - given Toffoli just got trade for a 3rd and a suspect 25 year old, I think Highes at least did ok.
- Lehkonen for Barron and a 2nd - have to wait and see what Barron becomes. It's still early.

No one wanted Hoffman. Yet down the line, Hughes traded Hoffman and waiver claim Pitlick for a 2nd + 3rd + Pearson (via Desmith) + 4th (via Petry) + eating 2.6M of Petry's salary next season. That's another great move.

Dadonov for Gurianov - is a wash. Nothing for nothing.

 

[morhilane]

No one wanted Hoffman. Yet down the line, Hughes traded Hoffman and waiver claim Pitlick for a 2nd + 3rd + Pearson (via Desmith) + 4th (via Petry + eating 2.6M of Petry's salary next season. That's another great move.

This one is crazy, Hughes traded garbage and got a lots of picks in the end.

And since then Petry was health scratched once, Hoffman is playing on the 4th line and Pitlick has 3 pts in 4 games in the AHL.

 

[ReHabs]

This one is crazy, Hughes traded garbage and got a lots of picks in the end.

And since then Petry was health scratched once, Hoffman is playing on the 4th line and Pitlick has 3 pts in 4 games in the AHL.

Hughes sold cap space to facilitate a superstar trade and got picks in return. It's not so crazy if you consider cap space as an asset, which it is.

 

[Essenege]

Lehkonen is only 28. He absolutely would have fit in the rebuild as a 30-31 y/o vet.

We developed a guy for 6 years and gave him away when he was entering his prime for a future bottom pairing D (upside top 4, downside 7th D).

Bad trade IMO. Nothing dramatic though.

 

[ML16]

Lehkonen wasn’t a fit with us anymore. Hughes did what he was suppose to at the time which is bring in futures to start the rebuild. He got what was a decent RHD prospect at the time back for him. It was a good return for a 26 year old forward with a career high of 31 points in 6 NHL seasons. It’s nice to see him doing well in Colorado but he didn’t fit the timeline in anyway here nor did we have the players to help him elevate his game. Also, Hoffman, Dvorak, and Drouin weren’t worth anything. Not sure what you were expecting there. We’re still waiting on something to happen with Anderson. He can still be sold at anytime.

The only reason Lehkonen « wasn’t a fit anymore » was because Bergevin dilapidated the Habs’ cap space with severely overpaid wingers such as Gallagher, Hoffman and Armia, making the former the only moveable asset / cap casualty…

 

[26Mats]

Hughes sold cap space to facilitate a superstar trade and got picks in return. It's not so crazy if you consider cap space as an asset, which it is.

Grier is the one who's crazy for taking on Hoffman's contract.

But the trade is crazy: I would have been ecstatic if we bought out Hoffman's horrible contract and taking up a roster spot for 1.7M against the cap over the next two years. Instead, we take a cap hit of 2.6M over the next two years (i.e. and extra 900K in cap space) in exchange for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, plus tanner Pearson, who's looking like he'll get us a pick at the TDL (though that is not yet a certainty).

 

[Le Tricolore]

We don't need a thread to talk about this trade anymore. Use the out of town thread if you want to talk about Lehkonen on the Habs forum.