News Article: Article on Iginla Debacle

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KIRK

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Seeing how the Pens took the eventual cup losers to Game 4 last year, I can understand why a franchise that takes the cup champs to Game 7 OT would be something Ray Shero aspires to.

After all, Nashville always aspired to be more than just a playoff team. They aspired to be a playoff team that would win a round or two and maybe be considered a team with a shot at the cup, like say the Sharks.
 

Shockmaster

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Sep 11, 2012
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Seeing how the Pens took the eventual cup losers to Game 4 last year, I can understand why a franchise that takes the cup champs to Game 7 OT would be something Ray Shero aspires to.

After all, Nashville always aspired to be more than just a playoff team. They aspired to be a playoff team that would win a round or two and maybe be considered a team with a shot at the cup, like say the Sharks.

The same franchise that made Captain Intangibles look like the crybaby HFBoards thinks Crosby is and still found a way to blow a 3-1 series lead to the eventual Cup champs. Of course, why wouldn't the Penguins want to look more like that? :sarcasm:
 

stardog

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Bottom line with Iginla is that Shero made a mistake by trading for him, hes washed up.

I couldn't be happier to see Iginla end up in Boston, last year in the playoffs Krejci Lucic Horton carried Boston offensively, that wouldn't happen this year with Iginla on that line.

You simply won't believe the amount of ridicule I received around here before the trade actually happened for suggesting that Iggy was no longer the player many remembered from years past.
Thing is, he is one of my favorite non Penguin players and always has been. And that being the case you would think that I'd have been THRILLED that we were after him.

But I watched him. A lot. And I saw a noticeable difference in his skating. And his compete level (which actually dropped off a couple of years ago). His passion and drive. His lack of any semblance of the physical play which made him so bad ass. His shot was still there, but that's about all that remained of the once great power forward other than intangibles.
I felt he would be a bad bad fit on the Pens. I felt he would be a bad fit with Sid. And geez, was I a major idiot for pointing all of this out (I accept gifts as apologies...also my dear friends, who turned their back on me for Iginla...I forgive. But need bribes to forget ya bunch of traiters).

The thing is this. If I saw all of these things and I knew it was a bad fit, why on earth didn't our management??? And I'm sorry, the reasoning behind the trade, "If you have a chance to get Iginla, you go and get Iginla" is just pure crap. You do NOT go out and use valuable assets to get a player whom is deemed a poor fit for your club simply to do so. It was terrible asset management then and it remains terrible.
In fact this is also the whole reason I started to question Shero. The series of trades he made at the deadline last year were all wrong fits and he gave up far to much to get the wrong pieces simply based on reputation alone. Shero got had by GM's who remind me of a used car salesman getting over full price for a lemon that he couldn't sale for years.
A first and two prospects for a slow and washed up Iggy. The price based on reputation alone despite having not played like that in some time.
A top prospect in Joe Morrow for an even more washed up Brendan Morrow. At least Brendan still played with fire and compete but was so slow that he simply didn't fit in.
And TWO second rounders for a guy who couldn't even lock up a lasting roster spot on another team? A team that didn't even attempt to resign him? A guy who quite possibly is one of the three slowest players in the NHL?
What do they all have in common? Toughness and character (and are slow).
Which is great... BUT, our entire system is built on speed. And you put three slower players in prime positions and it helped torpedo the affectiveness of that speed. And with the assets we gave up do you mean to tell me that we couldn't have traded for toughness and character who actually fit our system?

Just ZERO rhyme, reason or plan in those acquisitions other than name recognition to appease the fans. Poor asset management by our shrewed GM. Poor game plan (or lack thereof) by our shrewed GM. And definitely not the right pieces to win the cup. And if he scouted these players he already knew that they would be a bad bad fit.

This leads me to ask the question of why it was done then? For entertainment purposes? To make a splash amongst the fans? It made no sense then and is pissing me off writing this even more.
Lame.

For the record I thought the Juice trade was another Shero swoop of genious. Loved that one!
 
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KIRK

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https://vine.co/v/hQmwr2aI5BX

The next time someone lectures me about Dupuis being part of the family . . .

Look, he's standing right over the Orpik assault. You want to say 'he didn't expect it to be that bad', then I guess that I could see that. Too fast? Maybe.

But, what happened also spoke to his INSTINCT. He froze. Like the pedestrian who watches an assault right before his eyes, he froze instead of trying to help.

That's not what a family member does. And people like Rossi CELEBRATE him.

Could you imagine Sid or Geno standing there and doing nothing? Kunitz? Neal? **** Dupuis. It's not even about hate. I just can't respect or feel anything but disgust with a guy who would do what Dupuis did (or more precisely didn't do) as Orpik was being assaulted right in front of him.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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https://vine.co/v/hQmwr2aI5BX

The next time someone lectures me about Dupuis being part of the family . . .

Look, he's standing right over the Orpik assault. You want to say 'he didn't expect it to be that bad', then I guess that I could see that. Too fast? Maybe.

But, what happened also spoke to his INSTINCT. He froze. Like the pedestrian who watches an assault right before his eyes, he froze instead of trying to help.

That's not what a family member does. And people like Rossi CELEBRATE him.

Could you imagine Sid or Geno standing there and doing nothing? Kunitz? Neal? **** Dupuis. It's not even about hate. I just can't respect or feel anything but disgust with a guy who would do what Dupuis did (or more precisely didn't do) as Orpik was being assaulted right in front of him.

He was grabbed by Bergeron, as Megna was.

You're really reaching, KIRK.
 

KIRK

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He was grabbed by Bergeron, as Megna was.

You're really reaching, KIRK.

You know, we disagree on stuff. I get that. IcedCapp persuaded me that a lot of your schtick is deliberate. Fine. I get that.

But, between this view AND the YouTube view, it's clear that the moment it happened, Bergeron had not tied up Dupuis (let alone Dupuis AND Megna). At the very most, a second or two after it began, Bergeron lightly grabbed at Dupuis from behind.

But, it's all about INSTINCT in the end.

Dupuis didn't think to step forward. Didn't think to react out to help Orpik. Didn't even FLINCH in that direction.

Compare that to Sid at the scrum with like 2 minutes left. No hesitation. Someone grabbed Dupuis from behind, and Sid grabbed that guy.

One ought to know better than to defend the naked cowardice that Dupuis demonstrated. One ought to know that this goes beyond the usual message board stuff. We're talking about a sequence where a guy's career could have been ended and where one guy-- a CORE member of the family supposedly-- just stood there and did NOTHING.

You defend that **** if you want. I won't defend another man's cowardice.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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You know, we disagree on stuff. I get that. IcedCapp persuaded me that a lot of your schtick is deliberate. Fine. I get that.

Why would I spend 6+ years and nearly 40,000 posts on a website saying things I don't genuinely believe? If you think I'm not arguing in earnest when I disagree with you and take the time to painstakingly explain my stance, you and I have very different opinions on what constitutes a "schtick".

You've taken some positions I've thought are borderline absurd, but I've never doubted your intentions, and respected you enough to treat them as legitimate. I can't force you to do the same, but I expected better than that cop-out.

But, between this view AND the YouTube view, it's clear that the moment it happened, Bergeron had not tied up Dupuis (let alone Dupuis AND Megna). At the very most, a second or two after it began, Bergeron lightly grabbed at Dupuis from behind.

But, it's all about INSTINCT in the end.

Dupuis didn't think to step forward. Didn't think to react out to help Orpik. Didn't even FLINCH in that direction.

Compare that to Sid at the scrum with like 2 minutes left. No hesitation. Someone grabbed Dupuis from behind, and Sid grabbed that guy.

One ought to know better than to defend the naked cowardice that Dupuis demonstrated. One ought to know that this goes beyond the usual message board stuff. We're talking about a sequence where a guy's career could have been ended and where one guy-- a CORE member of the family supposedly-- just stood there and did NOTHING.

You defend that **** if you want. I won't defend another man's cowardice.

Nobody had any idea that anything would happen beyond a mild scuffle and maybe Thornton would be goaded into another penalty, KIRK. Whatever Thornton has done, he's not known as a cheap shot artist.

If you think Bergeron didn't have Dupuis tied up as the situation started looking potentially dangerous, I'm not sure what to say. You must have an incredible ability to lunge forward from a dead stop when somebody's skating backwards and wraps their arm around your neck. Nevermind that Megna was every bit as close...
 

KIRK

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Why would I spend 6+ years and nearly 40,000 posts on a website saying things I don't genuinely believe? If you think I'm not arguing in earnest when I disagree with you and take the time to painstakingly explain my stance, you and I have very different opinions on what constitutes a "schtick".

You've taken some positions I've thought are borderline absurd, but I've never doubted your intentions, and respected you enough to treat them as legitimate. I can't force you to do the same, but I expected better than that cop-out.



Nobody had any idea that anything would happen beyond a mild scuffle and maybe Thornton would be goaded into another penalty, KIRK. Whatever Thornton has done, he's not known as a cheap shot artist.

If you think Bergeron didn't have Dupuis tied up as the situation started looking potentially dangerous, I'm not sure what to say. You must have an incredible ability to lunge forward from a dead stop when somebody's skating backwards and wraps their arm around your neck. Nevermind that Megna was every bit as close...



0:22 - 0:24, Dupuis just lets Thornton skate by, gets out of his way.

0:24, Thornton grabs Orpik, nobody is on Dupuis, who is right there with a hand nearby.

0:25, Orpik now is on the ground, and Bergeron is starting to wrap an arm around Dupuis from behind while Megna's positioning prevents Bergeon from fully wrapping up Dupuis.

It happened in a split second.

It happened in a split second just like Dupuis was grabbed from behind in the third after a whistle and Sid was nearby.

Just one difference: In that split second, Sid's instinct was to help Dupuis. No thought, no hesitation, no worry for himself.

And, in that split second in the first, Dupuis froze.

It's all right there on video. This isn't about Bylsma. This isn't an excuse for Jokinen skating in circles while all of this went down. This isn't about hating what Dupuis does on the ice.

This is about a supposed member of the family freezing when another member of the family is being assaulted right in front of him. Perhaps you find that excusable. It makes me sick to my stomach to watch it and even sicker to see someone defend the cowardice on display right there in the video.

I hope to God that I don't have any family members like Dupuis. I hope the same for you, believe it or not.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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0:22 - 0:24, Dupuis just lets Thornton skate by, gets out of his way.

0:24, Thornton grabs Orpik, nobody is on Dupuis, who is right there with a hand nearby.


I don't see any reason why Dupuis would do something at that point, when it looked like a very routine scrum with people grabbing and pawing at one another.

0:25, Orpik now is on the ground, and Bergeron is starting to wrap an arm around Dupuis from behind while Megna's positioning prevents Bergeon from fully wrapping up Dupuis.

Like I said, you and I have very different takes on how somebody holding onto your neck while skating backwards can affect your ability to lunge forward. I've found it very difficult, but maybe I'm not as strong on my skates as you or Dupuis.

This is about a supposed member of the family freezing when another member of the family is being assaulted right in front of him. Perhaps you find that excusable. It makes me sick to my stomach to watch it and even sicker to see someone defend the cowardice on display right there in the video.

I hope to God that I don't have any family members like Dupuis. I hope the same for you, believe it or not.

I don't think cowardice has anything to do with it. From where I sat, no part of the situation looked out of the ordinary until Orpik was pulled down, by which time Dupuis was incapacitated.

This little tangent to the main issue of the incident itself comes across as an opportunity to grind an axe. If proximity were truly the issue Megna would be just as culpable as Dupuis, but he's mysteriously absent from criticism. I don't fault either, because the whole thing looked pretty innocent to me until it was too late.
 

JTG

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KIRK, you're reaching to epic depths now.

And the fact that you even waste your time on what Dupuis should have done as Orpik got assaulted, even so much as to giving us a second by second play-by-play of what occurred...I'm not real sure what to say. You have lost you mind and any form of rationality when it comes to anything pertaining to Pascal Dupuis.
 

bambamcam4ever

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Feb 16, 2012
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You simply won't believe the amount of ridicule I received around here before the trade actually happened for suggesting that Iggy was no longer the player many remembered from years past.
Thing is, he is one of my favorite non Penguin players and always has been. And that being the case you would think that I'd have been THRILLED that we were after him.

But I watched him. A lot. And I saw a noticeable difference in his skating. And his compete level (which actually dropped off a couple of years ago). His passion and drive. His lack of any semblance of the physical play which made him so bad ass. His shot was still there, but that's about all that remained of the once great power forward other than intangibles.
I felt he would be a bad bad fit on the Pens. I felt he would be a bad fit with Sid. And geez, was I a major idiot for pointing all of this out (I accept gifts as apologies...also my dear friends, who turned their back on me for Iginla...I forgive. But need bribes to forget ya bunch of traiters).

The thing is this. If I saw all of these things and I knew it was a bad fit, why on earth didn't our management??? And I'm sorry, the reasoning behind the trade, "If you have a chance to get Iginla, you go and get Iginla" is just pure crap. You do NOT go out and use valuable assets to get a player whom is deemed a poor fit for your club simply to do so. It was terrible asset management then and it remains terrible.
In fact this is also the whole reason I started to question Shero. The series of trades he made at the deadline last year were all wrong fits and he gave up far to much to get the wrong pieces simply based on reputation alone. Shero got had by GM's who remind me of a used car salesman getting over full price for a lemon that he couldn't sale for years.
A first and two prospects for a slow and washed up Iggy. The price based on reputation alone despite having not played like that in some time.
A top prospect in Joe Morrow for an even more washed up Brendan Morrow. At least Brendan still played with fire and compete but was so slow that he simply didn't fit in.
And TWO second rounders for a guy who couldn't even lock up a lasting roster spot on another team? A team that didn't even attempt to resign him? A guy who quite possibly is one of the three slowest players in the NHL?
What do they all have in common? Toughness and character (and are slow).
Which is great... BUT, our entire system is built on speed. And you put three slower players in prime positions and it helped torpedo the affectiveness of that speed. And with the assets we gave up do you mean to tell me that we couldn't have traded for toughness and character who actually fit our system?

Just ZERO rhyme, reason or plan in those acquisitions other than name recognition to appease the fans. Poor asset management by our shrewed GM. Poor game plan (or lack thereof) by our shrewed GM. And definitely not the right pieces to win the cup. And if he scouted these players he already knew that they would be a bad bad fit.

This leads me to ask the question of why it was done then? For entertainment purposes? To make a splash amongst the fans? It made no sense then and is pissing me off writing this even more.
Lame.

For the record I thought the Juice trade was another Shero swoop of genious. Loved that one!

I have to say I remember you saying that about Iginla, and while I disagreed at the time, in hindsight, you were definitely correct.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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KIRK, you're reaching to epic depths now.

And the fact that you even waste your time on what Dupuis should have done as Orpik got assaulted, even so much as to giving us a second by second play-by-play of what occurred...I'm not real sure what to say. You have lost you mind and any form of rationality when it comes to anything pertaining to Pascal Dupuis.

And what did Sid do when someone grabbed Dupuis from behind the neck in the third?

That simple question obliterates your 'this is because Kirk hates Dupuis' straw man. I ******* hate how Orpik has played this year. BUT, it made me sick what happened to him and that the only guy who tried to help, without hesitation, was Letang (who I've dumped on for his play), who had to go through three guys to do it.

I don't know what to make of you and RRP. Sid jumps in without hesitation or thought or worry. Letang does the same, and it's right there on the video. His INSTINCT was to move to help Orpik the second he saw Thornton move in.

Dupuis' instinct was to let Thornton skate by and then stand there.

You know, I always wonder what makes for a hero in life. The instinct a mother shows to protect a child. A soldier shows jumping on a grenade to save members of his platoon.

One celebrates that kind of courage. Perhaps on some level on could understand hesitating to protect a stranger in a situation like that. But, a brother in arms . . .

For you and RRP to defend that cowardice really transcends any arguments about players or coaches and speaks to what really is a saddening world view that, I will confess, is shared by others.

May nobody you know ever face a moment like Orpik did and have you right nearby.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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I don't know what to make of you and RRP. Sid jumps in without hesitation or thought or worry. Letang does the same, and it's right there on the video. His INSTINCT was to move to help Orpik the second he saw Thornton move in.

Letang didn't do a damn thing until Orpik was on the ice motionless.

You know, I always wonder what makes for a hero in life. The instinct a mother shows to protect a child. A soldier shows jumping on a grenade to save members of his platoon.

One celebrates that kind of courage. Perhaps on some level on could understand hesitating to protect a stranger in a situation like that. But, a brother in arms . . .

Hoo boy.

For you and RRP to defend that cowardice really transcends any arguments about players or coaches and speaks to what really is a saddening world view that, I will confess, is shared by others.

May nobody you know ever face a moment like Orpik did and have you right nearby.

Cowardice must be infectious. It already got to Megna, and he's barely played 10 games here.

Oh right, we can't mention him. He's young and we want him in the top 6. Shh.
 

DickgeiTarnchar

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Mar 7, 2006
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And what did Sid do when someone grabbed Dupuis from behind the neck in the third?

That simple question obliterates your 'this is because Kirk hates Dupuis' straw man. I ******* hate how Orpik has played this year. BUT, it made me sick what happened to him and that the only guy who tried to help, without hesitation, was Letang (who I've dumped on for his play), who had to go through three guys to do it.

I don't know what to make of you and RRP. Sid jumps in without hesitation or thought or worry. Letang does the same, and it's right there on the video. His INSTINCT was to move to help Orpik the second he saw Thornton move in.

Dupuis' instinct was to let Thornton skate by and then stand there.

You know, I always wonder what makes for a hero in life. The instinct a mother shows to protect a child. A soldier shows jumping on a grenade to save members of his platoon.

One celebrates that kind of courage. Perhaps on some level on could understand hesitating to protect a stranger in a situation like that. But, a brother in arms . . .

For you and RRP to defend that cowardice really transcends any arguments about players or coaches and speaks to what really is a saddening world view that, I will confess, is shared by others.

May nobody you know ever face a moment like Orpik did and have you right nearby.

I had to find my password to log in to say you are an insane person. Astounding.
 

KIRK

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I had to find my password to log in to say you are an insane person. Astounding.

Congratulations on finding your password. I can only imagine how insightful your previous 21 posts were.

Fine, you're all right. What Dupuis did is EXACTLY what Sid would've done in the same circumstance. It's EXACTLY what Sid did when someone grabbed Dupuis from behind by the neck in the third. Oh wait . . . that's the problem with your argument. Sid's courage is ignored and Dupuis' cowardice is excused. MOAR KOOL AID.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Congratulations on finding your password. I can only imagine how insightful your previous 21 posts were.

Fine, you're all right. What Dupuis did is EXACTLY what Sid would've done in the same circumstance. It's EXACTLY what Sid did when someone grabbed Dupuis from behind by the neck in the third. Oh wait . . . that's the problem with your argument. Sid's courage is ignored and Dupuis' cowardice is excused. MOAR KOOL AID.

Say Megna's name in this thread. I just need to see you can do it. :laugh:
 

KIRK

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Say Megna's name in this thread. I just need to see you can do it. :laugh:

You want me to call out Megna for not grabbing Bergeron but excuse Dupuis for letting Thronton skate right by him for Orpik and then stand still before Bergeron 'tied him up'?

O'k, I'll do that. No go ahead and excuse Dupuis again. Excuses are a forte of yours.
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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And what did Sid do when someone grabbed Dupuis from behind the neck in the third?

That simple question obliterates your 'this is because Kirk hates Dupuis' straw man. I ******* hate how Orpik has played this year. BUT, it made me sick what happened to him and that the only guy who tried to help, without hesitation, was Letang (who I've dumped on for his play), who had to go through three guys to do it.

I don't know what to make of you and RRP. Sid jumps in without hesitation or thought or worry. Letang does the same, and it's right there on the video. His INSTINCT was to move to help Orpik the second he saw Thornton move in.

Dupuis' instinct was to let Thornton skate by and then stand there.

You know, I always wonder what makes for a hero in life. The instinct a mother shows to protect a child. A soldier shows jumping on a grenade to save members of his platoon.

One celebrates that kind of courage. Perhaps on some level on could understand hesitating to protect a stranger in a situation like that. But, a brother in arms . . .

For you and RRP to defend that cowardice really transcends any arguments about players or coaches and speaks to what really is a saddening world view that, I will confess, is shared by others.

May nobody you know ever face a moment like Orpik did and have you right nearby.

You are too far gone

I'm talking wayyy out there.
 

LetangInTheSO

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Oct 17, 2008
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Objective third party here saying that Kirk needs to take a break from the keyboard. While reading his treatise covering four seconds of video, I was expecting to press 'play' and see the biggest act of cowardice I've ever seen. Then I watched. It's not even as though Kirk makes an arguable point. It's evident that he's projecting a whole lot of his own feelings about a player here. Not a lick of what Kirk is saying is supported by a single frame in this video.
 
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ColePens

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This thread isn't discussing Iginla anymore and seems we have lost our minds. Let's close this.
 
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