News Article: Article on Iginla Debacle

[Jag68Sid87]

Once more though, I might give a pass on Iggy, merely because he has just not produced this year, and Boston is not making him play the wrong side, or with scrubs. He remains on pace for 14 goals and 44 points. I realize that he brings some other things to the table, but those are awful numbers for a $6 million contract. ESPECIALLY this year when the cap went down dramatically. Maybe Bylsma saw him and saw that he was a shell of his former self and used him accordingly.

Well, we have to understand the difference between the Boston Bruins and Pittsburgh Penguins. The Bruins' leading scorer this year has 21 points. The Penguins have the top two scoring leaders in the NHL (top 3 if Stamkos didn't get hurt, maybe). Boston is a defense-first outfit. You're never going to put up huge numbers there. And they have a power play that isn't very good. Even Jagr had trouble putting up points consistently in Boston. It's a by-product of the Claude Julien system. As long as it wins games, they'll stick with it.

This MIGHT also have been a reason why Iggy chose Pittsburgh over Boston last year. Sure, Crosby and Malkin are the main reason why we're an offensive team, but the system SHOULD have been a better fit for an offensive player like Iggy than Boston. It wasn't, and we all know why. Because Bylsma's system is completely out of whack, and because he is a terrible coach.

Still, if Iginla was playing in Dupuis' spot THIS season, does anyone here truly believe Iginla would have the same amount of points this season? Does anyone think he wouldn't have more points than what Dupuis currently has? I am assuming, of course, that we would be using Iginla on the left boards on the PP, which is a bad assumption to make because of Bylsma.

This was a classic case of a coach not liking a player's style, and doing everything to destroy his time on a club. Bylsma probably felt threatened to some extent when Iggy arrived. Bylsma's vision of a grinding offensive team would be severely tested had Iginla worked out here. Imagine two offensively skilled lines! Oh the horror! It's probably why after flirting with the idea, Bylsma, Shero and co. decided to re-sign Kennedy instead of Jagr a few years ago. Choosing Kennedy over Jagr is very similar to choosing Dupuis over Iginla for Line 1. It is consistent with the way Bylsma wants his team to play.

True.

It's like they don't want to win anymore, they just want to be a happy bunch in unicorn land. I'd love to see how the players would react to a trade of one of the core players. Trade them all to Edmonton.

I believe a trade involving one of the most popular players on the team, one of the guys considered part of this team's core, has been needed for a long, long time. Obviously, I don't think trading Crosby or Malkin is wise or even sane. But one of Fleury, Orpik, Dupuis, Kunitz or Adams needs to go. Hell, several of them need to go. I'd keep Kunitz, basically. Even though he has great value compared to the others, and I think it's time Crosby realizes more than TWO people can play with him.

I don't know what to believe re: Sid's perceived preference for playing with Kunitz and Dupuis. When Iginla was first acquired, I thought it was FOR SURE driven by Sid. Then the 'promise' allegations, then Iggy is playing left wing, then we suck badly against Boston, then we re-sign Dupuis, then Iggy goes to Boston, and I have no idea anymore what to believe.

That all said, there seems to be a lot of blame here for a lot of people: Bylsma, Rossi, Crosby, Dupuis, Iginla of course...but for my money, the blame falls squarely on one man and one man only: Ray Shero.

Shero was the only person who could have had a major say in who plays with whom THIS season. He chose to buy into Bylsma's 'let's not rock the boat, let's be a family' approach...and he completely lost my faith in him in the process.

Shero is the same GM who traded Crosby's FORMER BFF, Colby Armstrong. At the time, if you all remember, it was a bit shocking that the Pens actually traded Armstrong. Not because of his play or production, but rather because of how popular he was on this team. But we made the RIGHT trade at the time. Then again, a lot of reports suggested it was actually Mario Lemieux who pushed for Hossa back then.

So I guess the question that needs to be asked here is: does Ray Shero have the balls to shake this tree? Did he have any in the first place?

Because if Sidney Crosby is driving the bus, in terms of player personnel decisions, we're in deep deep trouble. When Wayne Gretzky was in Los Angeles, he apparently had a hand in several transactions...moves that set the team back for several years, if not a decade. Short-term decisions with no vision. Our 'all-in' philosophy last year was eerily similar to Gretzky's Kings.

We went all in, we lost, and then we got rid of all three acquisitions as quickly as we acquired them. Then we got rid of a few other guys on the periphery, such as Jordan Staal's third-line residue, but we really haven't touched the main leadership core for a while. Staal forced us to trade him. Otherwise, we haven't touched it since winning it all in '09. Scuderi and Gill left because of the cap. We've tinkered, and even tinkered a lot. But we haven't done anything to rock the boat.

We need to rock the boat now.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Dupuis deserved to be in the top 6 though.
Iginla couldn't win a board battle to save his life and was slow.

Another thing was Sid went down with a shattered jaw in the 1st period of Iginla's first game here. Missed alot of valuable time seeing if Iginla could fit there and developing some chemistry again.

All that being said, not using Iginla on PP1 was just dumb.
Not using Bennett as a top six option until game 3 or 4 in the Boston series...also dumb.
There was also a line that DB threw out right after the trade deadline of Morrow-Malkin-Neal that showed a little promise and he abandoned it.

After the trade deadline, DB severely mishandled the roster imo. From the top 6 to PP1, to not dressing Bennett enough and so on.

I don't think Iginla didn't have "fun" here. He probably enjoyed his time here, like probably every veteran does. You're guarenteed a spot every night.

But it was probably a challenge for him. He admitted the system is "way different" than what he's used to.

Also, Iginla would've played on the 3rd line if he was asked. He's as humble as they come and all he wanted to do was help this team win another Cup. DB felt he owed it to him to place him in the top 6 somewhere, no doubt.

Igina's misuse here is more on DB and not on Sid or anyone else as Rossi likes to suggest.

 

[ColePens]

When posting news, you cannot post the full article.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Dupuis deserved to be in the top 6 though.
Iginla couldn't win a board battle to save his life and was slow.

Bylsma had Dupuis in a scoring role and Iginla in an industrious role, so what should we have expected against Boston?

Iginla on the third line made way more sense than Iginla at left wing, and as has been pointed out he did look good with Morrow and Jokinen when they were put together.

I know it's been said before, but if everybody would have checked their agendas and egos at the door last spring, and gone with the following forward lineup:
Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Jokinen-Iginla
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

...we would have won, imo. EVEN with Dupuis miscast, even with Iggy on the third line, that depth would have triumphed in the end. We had the same issues in the top six in the past, but Staal's line was the equalizer. Well, last spring Staal's old line could have been our energy FOURTH line had we done it right. Think about that. Oh sure, we could have moved parts around like Iginla on Line 1, and Dupuis on Line 3 and other logical moves, but all I'm saying is EVEN Bylsma could have won with what he was given last year. But too many people had too many agendas, it seems.

I'll stop now because it just angers me to no end.

 

[NMK11]

I see a lot of people blaming the "family" for Iggy not being on Crosby's wing. We'll never be sure, but maybe, just maybe, it could be because KCD was playing extremely well and the only spot in the top 6 that was open was Malkin's LW. For a board that thinks breaking up K-C and M-N is inexcusable for chemistry reasons, a lot of you seem to overlook the fact that Dupuis did have significant chemistry with Crosby and was putting up plenty of points.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he should have been with Sid, one of the many mismanaged roster decisions last year like others have posted. Sure, he's nowhere near the player he once was, but there seems to also be some revisionist theory here about how bad he actually was.

 

[IcedCapp]

I see a lot of people blaming the "family" for Iggy not being on Crosby's wing. We'll never be sure, but maybe, just maybe, it could be because KCD was playing extremely well and the only spot in the top 6 that was open was Malkin's LW. For a board that thinks breaking up K-C and M-N is inexcusable for chemistry reasons, a lot of you seem to overlook the fact that Dupuis did have significant chemistry with Crosby and was putting up plenty of points.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he should have been with Sid, one of the many mismanaged roster decisions last year like others have posted. Sure, he's nowhere near the player he once was, but there seems to also be some revisionist theory here about how bad he actually was.

"You're all wrong and illogical.

And I agree with you."

OK

 

[Wes C Addle]

It's plausible, but I have a hard time taking anything Rossi says as gospel given his track record. Nor do I believe that he is privy to this sort of "inside" information.

 

[DegenX]

I feel dirty having read that. And less intelligent. Another 'the faster we go the rounder we get' tail chasing article from Rossi.

 

[billybudd]

What other equally or more 'plausible' explanation is there for how Iginla was deployed?

Can you make one up that even comes close to Rossi's 'it's about the family and egos' explanation for how Iginla was deployed?

EDIT: I'm not asking that to be flippant. I'm asking that because, try as I might, I can't come up with anything that speaks to Iggy on Malkin's LW being about putting Malkin in the best position to succeed or putting the Pens in the best possible position to win the cup.

Just to be clear, you're asking for a more plausible explanation than Dan not wanting to upset egos?

Sure.

1. Maybe when they saw how far he had deteriorated in practice and decided he was the team's fourth-best wing and therefore an afterthought. Malkin's left was the only opening anywhere in the lineup in Dan world and since Neal is better, no use playing him out of position for Jarome Iginla's ghost.

2. Maybe his conditioning was suspect (never heard this about Iginla, but it's usually true about so-called slow starters) and they figured since Malkin and Neal play at a slower pace than Sid and Kunitz, Iggy would make more sense there.

3. Hell, for all I know, Dan, Tony or Todd have some specific grudge against Jarome Iginla dating back to their playing days. Jarome's got everybody's respect for how he carries himself off the ice, but he's always been a big baby on it.

Do I know that one of these was the cause for his usage? Nope.

I'm just throwing darts blindfolded at a board, which is very much what I think Rossi's doing here. Maybe he got bullseye, but if he did, it was probably luck, not digging.


Edit: as far as Iginla-JJ-Morrow not being a unit, another plausible explanation for that not being done is the risk that they would be scored on constantly. Every one of them is dead weight when the other team has the puck.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'll take Rossi with a grain of salt, but...

I hated DB's promise to Dupuis, even if I believe Iggy should have performed much better regardless of who he played with or what side he played on. If Bylsma is intent on keeping KCD together (or Dupes in the top 6) at all costs moving forward, we have a problem.

This is spot on, RRP. DB's promise may have cost this team a trip to the SCF.

TBH, I don't see how you feel this way about his decision making last year then defend him every chance you get since the POs ended.

 

[IcedCapp]

Just to be clear, you're asking for a more plausible explanation than Dan not wanting to upset egos?

Sure.

1. Maybe when they saw how far he had deteriorated in practice and decided he was the team's fourth-best wing and therefore an afterthought. Malkin's left was the only opening anywhere in the lineup in Dan world and since Neal is better, no use playing him out of position for Jarome Iginla's ghost.

2. Maybe his conditioning was suspect (never heard this about Iginla, but it's usually true about so-called slow starters) and they figured since Malkin and Neal play at a slower pace than Sid and Kunitz, Iggy would make more sense there.

3. Hell, for all I know, Dan, Tony or Todd have some specific grudge against Jarome Iginla dating back to their playing days. Jarome's got everybody's respect for how he carries himself off the ice, but he's always been a big baby on it.

Do I know that one of these was the cause for his usage? Nope.

I'm just throwing darts blindfolded at a board, which is very much what I think Rossi's doing here. Maybe he got bullseye, but if he did, it was probably luck, not digging.


Edit: as far as Iginla-JJ-Morrow not being a unit, another plausible explanation for that not being done is the risk that they would be scored on constantly. Every one of them is dead weight when the other team has the puck.

Two is 100% false. Iginla is actually known for being a workout warrior and in great condition after every off-season.

Aside from that, Crosby and Malkin start slow, do they ignore conditioning?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

If that is true about Crosby, **** him. He's not the coach. I don't give a crap if you're the face of the NHL, you don't make the decisions around here. Too bad Bylsma doesn't have the balls to tell him that.

I don't blame Sid at all even if it's true that he wanted Dups over Iggy. I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter.

I'm a coach at the collegiate level and have guys asking to play with their buddies (or for their buddies to get more PT) all the time, and I tell them the same thing every time; "It's the job of the coaching staff to put the best players out their in the best combinations. It doesn't matter if it's a senior or a freshman, the best players are going to play."

DB needs to grow a pair of balls and make a hard decision once in a while.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't blame Sid at all even if it's true that he wanted Dups over Iggy. I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter.

I'm a coach at the collegiate level and have guys asking to play with their buddies (or for their buddies to get more PT) all the time, and I tell them the same thing every time; "It's the job of the coaching staff to put the best players out their in the best combinations. It doesn't matter if it's a senior or a freshman, the best players are going to play."

DB needs to grow a pair of balls and make a hard decision once in a while.

Agreed. People say Sid wants Dupuis like it takes blame away from Bylsma. If the only reason Dupuis is with Sid is because Sid wants him there, then we have an even bigger problem than I thought because our coach doesn't have a spine.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I see a lot of people blaming the "family" for Iggy not being on Crosby's wing. We'll never be sure, but maybe, just maybe, it could be because KCD was playing extremely well and the only spot in the top 6 that was open was Malkin's LW. For a board that thinks breaking up K-C and M-N is inexcusable for chemistry reasons, a lot of you seem to overlook the fact that Dupuis did have significant chemistry with Crosby and was putting up plenty of points.

Don't get me wrong, I do think he should have been with Sid, one of the many mismanaged roster decisions last year like others have posted. Sure, he's nowhere near the player he once was, but there seems to also be some revisionist theory here about how bad he actually was.

OK, but it stopped working, then he tried Iginla against the Isles, and went right back to KCD and that was it for the changes. I think they stayed together pretty much throughout the Boston series, didn't they? How is that understandable or acceptable?

Agreed. People say Sid wants Dupuis like it takes blame away from Bylsma. If the only reason Dupuis is with Sid is because Sid wants him there, then we have an even bigger problem than I thought because our coach doesn't have a spine.

Nor does our GM (have a spine).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There's just something utterly insane about the idea that Dupuis has to play on Sid's RW, or that Bylsma would even promise that. If that truly is the kind of mentality this team has, then I hope they flame out every playoffs. Stupid people don't deserve success.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't blame Sid at all even if it's true that he wanted Dups over Iggy. I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter.

I'm a coach at the collegiate level and have guys asking to play with their buddies (or for their buddies to get more PT) all the time, and I tell them the same thing every time; "It's the job of the coaching staff to put the best players out their in the best combinations. It doesn't matter if it's a senior or a freshman, the best players are going to play."

DB needs to grow a pair of balls and make a hard decision once in a while.

That sounds great, but that's not how sports works with superstar players, guys like Sid Lebron Brady Manning have way more power on the team then your average player, you have to make sure your superstars are happy. An example of this is when Sid waived off the timeout DB tried to take in the Leafs game, a player like Dupuis can't waive off a DB timeout like Sid did.

I remember reading an article when Oates moved OV to right wing, Oates just suggested it to OV and OV had to agree with it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That sounds great, but that's not how sports works with superstar players, guys like Sid Lebron Brady Manning have way more power on the team then your average player, you have to make sure your superstars are happy. An example of this is when Sid waived off the timeout DB tried to take in the Leafs game, a player like Dupuis can't waive off a DB timeout like Sid did.

I remember reading an article when Oates moved OV to right wing, Oates just suggested it to OV and OV had to agree with it.

OK, but Sid waiving the timeout was the right play at the time. Moving Ovechkin to right wing eliminated the predictability that had settled into his game. It was the right decision.

Having a guy who can't score on your right wing doesn't help Sid or the team. It's the wrong decision. Logic needs to settle in here.

 

[penguins2946*]

I don't blame Sid at all even if it's true that he wanted Dups over Iggy. I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter.

I'm a coach at the collegiate level and have guys asking to play with their buddies (or for their buddies to get more PT) all the time, and I tell them the same thing every time; "It's the job of the coaching staff to put the best players out their in the best combinations. It doesn't matter if it's a senior or a freshman, the best players are going to play."

DB needs to grow a pair of balls and make a hard decision once in a while.

That's what I was more pissed about. I'm fine with Crosby saying that he wants to play with Dupuis, because players do that all the time. What I am pissed about is that Bylsma let him make that decision. Crosby is not the coach. He should be allowed to say who he wants to play with, but he should not have the power to enact that. I think that actually has more to do with Bylsma being scared of upsetting Sid, which pisses me off immensely.

 

[cheesedanish87]

OK, but Sid waiving the timeout was the right play at the time. Moving Ovechkin to right wing eliminated the predictability that had settled into his game. It was the right decision.

Having a guy who can't score on your right wing doesn't help Sid or the team. It's the wrong decision. Logic needs to settle in here.

There are lots of things that could of happened that we don't know about, Iggy did play with Sid for a game or two, Maybe DB went to Sid and suggested playing with Iggy for a game or two and seeing how it went.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Also, if it's Sid's idea to keep Dupuis on his wing and not Bylsma's, why did Bylsma promise Dupuis he wouldn't lose his spot? Seems like Bylsma needed zero prompting from Sid in order to keep that line together.

 

[eXile59]

-If Sid wants to play with Dupuis than he is his own worst enemy but I really doubt he ignores all Dupuis mistakes & wouldn't want to play with Iginla.

-If Bylsma really did promise Dupuis that spot it is an organizational failure and completely re-affirms the idea that Bylsma is more one of the guys than a coach.

Honestly with Dupuis in his contract year it would make complete sense if he was afraid to lose that spot.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

That sounds great, but that's not how sports works with superstar players, guys like Sid Lebron Brady Manning have way more power on the team then your average player, you have to make sure your superstars are happy. An example of this is when Sid waived off the timeout DB tried to take in the Leafs game, a player like Dupuis can't waive off a DB timeout like Sid did.

I remember reading an article when Oates moved OV to right wing, Oates just suggested it to OV and OV had to agree with it.

You don't know what you're talking about.

A good coach makes decisions that are best for the team, even if they go against their star player's wishes.

Do you think Bill Belichick would not have scratched Stevan Ridley is Brady asked him not to?

 

[#66]

I don't blame Sid at all even if it's true that he wanted Dups over Iggy. I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter.

I'm a coach at the collegiate level and have guys asking to play with their buddies (or for their buddies to get more PT) all the time, and I tell them the same thing every time; "It's the job of the coaching staff to put the best players out their in the best combinations. It doesn't matter if it's a senior or a freshman, the best players are going to play."

DB needs to grow a pair of balls and make a hard decision once in a while.

But do those players live with your boss and does your team have a history of throwing coaches under the bus to make the players happy?

 

[NMK11]

"You're all wrong and illogical.

And I agree with you."

OK

Sometimes I wonder if people just skim through things so they can sarcastically disagree with them. Maybe people are wrong about why Iginla wasn't with Crosby, more so that the coaches saw his line was showing less chemistry and less that Sid just wants Dupuis. People are not wrong that Iginla should have been tried more with Crosby, especially after they struggled in the playoffs. But please, keep changing my meanings if it amuses you.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

But do those players live with your boss and does your team have a history of throwing coaches under the bus to make the players happy?

I highly doubt that Mario or Shero were telling DB to keep Duper happy and mismanage Iggy.

And this is all dependent on the unproven idea that Sid wanted it. There is one quote where Sid said he likes playing with Duper that started this whole "Sid demanded to play with Dupuis" theory.

I think it's bull**** TBH.