Article Debunking Myth About Senators 'Playoff Attendance Problem'

[Barrie22]

I can understand that view from the outside, but nothing could be further from the truth. The city is hockey crazy for the Sens - they are close to the top revenue per capita in the NHL. The city punches way above it's weight class in terms of fans and revenue. Certainly per capita, they actually generate substantially more revenue than either Toronto or Montreal. And that is despite having a decent subset of other teams fans here too.

to that point, there is certainly a solid base of original six fans here. The city loves hockey, and many fans were fans of team before the Sens arrived. I know for my generation, we all grew up with a favorite team given we didn't have one. Most people changed, and some didn't (not just Montreal and Toronto - see a regular season game for the Wings, Bruins, Hawks or Rangers - tons of local fans). Some have Sens as their second favorite, others hate them (mostly Leaf and Habs fans, for natural fun reasons). I get how some people see this as a bad thing, but really it is just fans who were deep rooted in their original team, and couldn't make the switch. And again, the city is hockey crazy. The different fan mix should be celebrated to a degree. I no other city is water cooler talk on hockey so intense and heated.

As to your assertion that "Most fans" cheer for someone else, that's obviously ridiculous. I'm sure you were just exaggerating to try and make a point. More than 90% of hockey fans are going for the Sens I'd guess, but that still leaves probably 50,000 people who are fans of other teams here.

As to the non-sell out, as a season ticket holder, I can tell you this lies firmly on the team. They have consistently tried to use playoff tickets to get fans to sign up for season tickets, and for those on a budget, it just doesn't fly any more. And if they don't sign up, making them pay 2.5 times what others are paying, just rubs people the wrong way (now that they've figured it out). The Sens could have sold out the building 2 times over if they hadn't tried charging $400 for a $200 seat. That's a lot of $'s to expect most fans to pay, especially when they know others paid less than $200.

Every single team uses playoff tickets to sell season tickets. And every single franchise raises the prices of playoff tickets each round.

 

[NorthCoast]

This is true, but the owner shouldn't cry in the paper about it when they misjudged the price points a little.

Absolutely. Melnyk might be successful at business because he is ruthless on the finance side, but no sens fan will disagree that his communication skills are pretty horrendous and often counterproductive to what the sens want their message to be in the market.

 

[NorthCoast]

Every single team uses playoff tickets to sell season tickets. And every single franchise raises the prices of playoff tickets each round.

Yes, and every hockey market has a limit to how much they would pay for tickets. Unless you are saying that you would be willing to pay 1 million for a ticket...yeah, i didn't think so.

Therefore, it doesn't matter what the price is or what the pricing strategy is. All that matters is that demand is tied to price, and therefore their is a price where you sell out and a price where you don't. The sens are obviously being more aggressive than other clubs in order to help generate revenue that can finance the stadium move downtown and help to secure the long-term financial foundation of the team. It's a unique circumstance that many other markets are not facing at this specific time.

 

[Spartachat]

Absolutely. Melnyk might be successful at business because he is ruthless on the finance side, but no sens fan will disagree that his communication skills are pretty horrendous and often counterproductive to what the sens want their message to be in the market.

If Melnyk was smart, he would sell a small portion of the team to Alfie and let him act as the ownership face of the franchise like Lemieux does for Pittsburgh. Melynk could act as the silent owner like Ronald Burkle.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The difference, as you put it, is that is was the first official long weekend of the spring (Easter doesn't count). Lots of families make plans to go to cottages, out of town trips, etc... Not really sure why this isn't being taken into account.

Just like game 3 (I think) against the Rangers. It was the first 30 degree day in 9 - 10 months. Pretty sure people saw that weather and immediately thought 'Patio time!!'

They may sound like silly reasons to some, but they had a legitimate impact.

those are all extremely lame excuses, I'm sorry

The tickets for game 7 in Pittsburgh were on sale during the weekend on ticketmaster.

game wasn't guaranteed until after game 6 though

 

[NorthCoast]

Your analysis (from one professional marketer to another) assumes that goodwill among the fans is not a factor that management considers. I really doubt that is the case. I agree there is some attempt to maximize revenues with playoff games, but think that is somewhat tempered with the longer term goal of building and maintaining fan loyalty and engagement.

There won't be any empty seats at PPG tonight, and plenty of SRO if history is a guide.

Sure, and if 20% of all tickets were empty every game then maybe their would be an outcry. But what are we talking about here. 1% of tickets across all playoff games combined? That's not going to cause a backlash, and hasn't, in the Ottawa market.

Anybody in Ottawa from a business background can clearly see that they are trying to soak as much out of this run to help finance the move downtown, which will result in a stronger team long-term. It may even reduce how much tax payer $ goes into the new building (though I won't hold my breath on that front).

In short, the Ottawa fan base has no issue with what they are doing. And I don't see the NHL having much of an issue with it either because they also see the potential of more revenue from Ottawa with a new stadium.

 

[northeastern]

I took a look but didn't see it mentioned, how much were the unsold game 6b tickets listed for?

 

[NorthCoast]

I took a look but didn't see it mentioned, how much were the unsold game 6b tickets listed for?

The point is that the specific price doesn't really matter because it is relevant to the market. Toronto playoff tickets are 2x what Ottawa tickets are. Does this mean Ottawa tickets are priced to low? Or does this mean that Toronto tickets are 30% of what they should be priced at, considering Toronto is 7x the population of Ottawa?

Anyways, for what it's worth the tickets started at $120 + $20 parking and the game was a couple hundred shy of a sellout. Which again, even without those tickets still beats out the all-time attendance records for either Nashville or Anaheim.

edit: Not that these prices are CAD and without taxes. Add 15% for taxes and 20% to convert to USD.

 

[Inkling]

I took a look but didn't see it mentioned, how much were the unsold game 6b tickets listed for?

I think they were listing for $120 or more, plus ticket fees and taxes. All in, probably north of $150 for a seat close to the top of the 300s.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Sure, and if 20% of all tickets were empty every game then maybe their would be an outcry. But what are we talking about here. 1% of tickets across all playoff games combined? That's not going to cause a backlash, and hasn't, in the Ottawa market.

Anybody in Ottawa from a business background can clearly see that they are trying to soak as much out of this run to help finance the move downtown, which will result in a stronger team long-term. It may even reduce how much tax payer $ goes into the new building (though I won't hold my breath on that front).

In short, the Ottawa fan base has no issue with what they are doing. And I don't see the NHL having much of an issue with it either because they also see the potential of more revenue from Ottawa with a new stadium.

Agree the amount of unsold Ottawa tix not an issue. Not sure why people are fetishizing this.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Anybody in Ottawa from a business background can clearly see that they are trying to soak as much out of this run to help finance the move downtown, which will result in a stronger team long-term. It may even reduce how much tax payer $ goes into the new building (though I won't hold my breath on that front).
.

I'm way in for the downtown arena. I'm way in for the sens being competitive.

But you are out of your ****ing mind if you think Melnyk will use ANY of the money from this run to help ANY part of the downtown relocation. Lol.

 

[TOGuy14]

I wonder where Ottawa ranks with regards to actual paid tickets by actual fans instead of receiving the tickets from a corporation/employer.

What exactly would those numbers prove though?

A dollar of revenue from a corporation is the same as a dollar of revenue from a person.

The only things you could conclude from that kind of research is either:

1. The team isn't a hot ticket in town so companies don't bother buying the tickets
2. The city in question has an awful economic base / companies locally.

 

[Fandlauer]

I'm way in for the downtown arena. I'm way in for the sens being competitive.

But you are out of your ****ing mind if you think Melnyk will use ANY of the money from this run to help ANY part of the downtown relocation. Lol.

He doesn't need to and he really doesn't care about a downtown stadium. The Sens make money as it is. Of course he has it broken up into several entities so he can write off a loss at the end of the year. Charges the team rent for a stadium he owns lol

His eyes are on the fortune he'll make developing all the prime real estate surrounding it.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

He doesn't need to and he really doesn't care about a downtown stadium. The Sens make money as it is. Of course he has it broken up into several entities so he can write off a loss at the end of the year. Charges the team rent for a stadium he owns lol

His eyes are on the fortune he'll make developing all the prime real estate surrounding it.

Oh I agree with you. He doesn't need to. I was just responding to "he might." There's no way in hell

 

[Fandlauer]

Oh I agree with you. He doesn't need to. I was just responding to "he might." There's no way in hell

Won't argue with you there.

 

[NorthCoast]

Oh I agree with you. He doesn't need to. I was just responding to "he might." There's no way in hell

Yeah, my thinking was that he would have to put up some cash and the playoff revenues should help.

But your absolutely right. He's probably going to pocket this revenue personally and then over leverage some other subsidiary or get a 0% loan from the city/province, etc in order to fund the Lebreton project.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Yeah, my thinking was that he would have to put up some cash and the playoff revenues should help.

But your absolutely right. He's probably going to pocket this revenue personally and then over leverage some other subsidiary or get a 0% loan from the city/province, etc in order to fund the Lebreton project.

This.

He will claim that he made so little money from this run to, as you say, leverage something to get the best deal possible.

Which, hey, is what good business men do so I won't fault him at all. He's found loopholes in the system and he is using them. Good on him. He's a good at business.

I'm just saying ... he doesn't do anything out of kindness as far as I'm concerned. Good at business but seems a Little lackluster as a human. Harsh since i dont know him? Maybe.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

What exactly would those numbers prove though?

A dollar of revenue from a corporation is the same as a dollar of revenue from a person.

The only things you could conclude from that kind of research is either:

1. The team isn't a hot ticket in town so companies don't bother buying the tickets
2. The city in question has an awful economic base / companies locally.

It proves how much harder it is for a city to support their NHL hockey club without large corporate support. Fans can only shell out so much money to watch every single playoff game before it gets too expensive

 

[Barrie22]

This.

He will claim that he made so little money from this run to, as you say, leverage something to get the best deal possible.

Which, hey, is what good business men do so I won't fault him at all. He's found loopholes in the system and he is using them. Good on him. He's a good at business.

I'm just saying ... he doesn't do anything out of kindness as far as I'm concerned. Good at business but seems a Little lackluster as a human. Harsh since i dont know him? Maybe.

It is how most millionaire/billionaire owners are you can'xt be a good human in business deals. Or well you will be flat broke.

 

[Polansky]

I wonder where Ottawa ranks with regards to actual paid tickets by actual fans instead of receiving the tickets from a corporation/employer.

I was saying that earlier in the thread. The thing is that the majority of HF isn't overly smart, with everyone wanting to look over their actual abilities, so they act aggressively foolish.

 

[TOGuy14]

I was saying that earlier in the thread. The thing is that the majority of HF isn't overly smart, with everyone wanting to look over their actual abilities, so they act aggressively foolish.

I somewhat see the point being made about corporate seats, but to counter that I say:

The reason that companies buy every seat possible in cities like Toronto / Montreal etc is because the people there are so feverishly into the team that owning those tickets is massively prestigious and extremely valuable as a tool for clients and business partners

If local corporations aren't buying as many tickets it could just indicate that they just don't feel the local population is that into the team or values tickets for them all that much.

 

[Micklebot]

I somewhat see the point being made about corporate seats, but to counter that I say:

The reason that companies buy every seat possible in cities like Toronto / Montreal etc is because the people there are so feverishly into the team that owning those tickets is massively prestigious and extremely valuable as a tool for clients and business partners

If local corporations aren't buying as many tickets it could just indicate that they just don't feel the local population is that into the team or values tickets for them all that much.

The largest employer in Ottawa (fed Gov't) isn't allowed to buy tickets, nor are local private sector companies allowed to use tickets to wine and dine Gov't clients.

Last time I checked, Federal gov't jobs account for about 18% of all Ottawa jobs. That number climbs even higher when you include provincial and city of Ottawa employees. That really devalues event tickets, not just hockey tickets, as a tool for clients and business partners, when many of them aren't allowed to use them, nor are they allowed to accept them.

 

[JD1]

The largest employer in Ottawa (fed Gov't) isn't allowed to buy tickets, nor are local private sector companies allowed to use tickets to wine and dine Gov't clients.

Last time I checked, Federal gov't jobs account for about 18% of all Ottawa jobs. That number climbs even higher when you include provincial and city of Ottawa employees. That really devalues event tickets, not just hockey tickets, as a tool for clients and business partners, when many of them aren't allowed to use them, nor are they allowed to accept them.

I've been there and lived this. Having a box is a huge perk. The feds announce they won't allow their employees to accept tickets and that was the end of the box. It's had a damper effect on the tournament golf business as well.

Ottawa has sold more hockey tickets to joe fan that spends his hard earned dollar on the ticket than ANY market in Canada. They sold over 100,000 playoff ticjets to Joe fan. The narrative that there isn't support is lunacy.

Sadly the Corp ticket sales market likely won't ever get better. Using tickets/boxes as employee rewards only goes so far.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't know if Eugene Melnyk meant he wanted support from Leafs fans in terms of purchasing tickets because prior to Game 6 against Pittsburgh I believe he wanted fans across Canada to support the Senators. I bring that up because on TSN 1050 in Toronto I was listening to OverDrive and it's host Bryan Hayes mentioned how in 2004 Melnyk wanted to ban Leafs fans from wearing their jerseys at Senators home games when they played Toronto. He went onto to say how for Game 6 in 2004 a lot of Leafs fans purchased tickets on the off chance it would be played, because they would either get a refund if the series didn't go at least 6 games or they would take over the Canadian Tire Centre (Corel Centre name at the time) to stick it to him. Basically the thought it was why would the Leafs fans support Ottawa this year when their owner wanted to ban Leafs fans from wearing their jerseys in the past.

 

[Price is Wright]

How many Cat Bowsers could fit in that barn? A good thousand small ones at least. (Cat Bowser can split into smaller forms of himself, helps to increase the chances of scratching Cat Mario)

Thank you for asking the questions nobody is smart enough to ask.