Arsenal FC Thread

[Evilo]

This entire conversation started because a few Arsenal fans jumped in to claim Arsenal has a top 6 squad after we were discussing one player specifically (Pepe) and how he has performed relative to expectations. The vast majority of discussions about Arsenal are started by outrageous takes by your fans, and a lot of them are not even started during Arsenal games but when your fans jump into game threads about Chelsea, Tottenham, United, etc. so I wouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

 

[Blender]

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

Right, "serious blinders" to see that squad is better than one of Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Manchester United, or Leicester. I don't even think it's better than Wolves, it's the 8th best squad in my opinion.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

That and Auba looks incredibly checked out currently.

Ever since he signed that big, three-year contract if you ask me. Big reason why I think they have been so stagnant offensively.

 

[AB13]

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

I agree, but I would prefer if we did not make some stupid decisions about who to have in the squad

Leno

Bellerin - Saliba - Gabriel - Tierney

Torreira - Partey

Pepe - Özil - Saka/Martinelli

Aubameyang

 

[Live in the Now]

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

But then you have the part where everyone’s playing twice a week every single week. And their bench f***ing sucks.

 

[Blender]

But then you have the part where everyone’s playing twice a week every single week. And their bench f***ing sucks.

Some of those players on the field have just been no where near as good as you might expect on paper either, under Emery and/or Arteta depending on the player. I don't think it's the right approach to judge players based on past reputation and perceived prestige more than actual performance.

 

[robertmac43]

I wish we still had Torriera, he at least always seems to care.

 

[AB13]

Some of those players on the field have just been no where near as good as you might expect on paper either, under Emery and/or Arteta depending on the player. I don't think it's the right approach to judge players based on past reputation and perceived prestige more than actual performance.

You need to take into account the systems they have played in at least to some extent. No player would look good in Artetas current system, no player on earth. I have described why. They would perform much better to an extent where the difference becomes quite largely noticeable under just about any manager in europe. Doesn't matter who we sign if they are playing under Arteta.

Under Emery, every single player without a single exception performed much better even though he also had huge flaws to his approach.

 

[Evilo]

Right, "serious blinders" to see that squad is better than one of Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Manchester United, or Leicester. I don't even think it's better than Wolves, it's the 8th best squad in my opinion.

Yup.
Much better D than United's and Spurs'.
Much better all around than Leicester's.
So they're 5th at worst.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Evilo]

But then you have the part where everyone’s playing twice a week every single week. And their bench f***ing sucks.

Actually a bench of Xhaka, Martinelli, Kolasinac, Nelson, Saka and others is hardly bad.

 

[Evilo]

Some of those players on the field have just been no where near as good as you might expect on paper either, under Emery and/or Arteta depending on the player. I don't think it's the right approach to judge players based on past reputation and perceived prestige more than actual performance.

You mean it's better to judge players on a team in a down spiral than on their past achievements?

Like seriously?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yup.
Much better D than United's and Spurs'.
Much better all around than Leicester's.
So they're 5th at worst.

Thanks for proving my point.

Arsenals defense has done nothing to prove its better than United’s yet.

 

[Evilo]

Except perform outside Arsenal you mean?

 

[Evilo]

TAB, you can't seriously say with a straight face than those back 4 on United are as good as Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney.
You know it, everyone knows it.

People can say Saliba is not proven, blah, blah, blah because they don't watch L1. But nobody who saw both players play will tell you Gabriel is better than Saliba RIGHT NOW.
That should give you an idea since Gabriel would be United's best CB.

 

[Blender]

You mean it's better to judge players on a team in a down spiral than on their past achievements?

Like seriously?

It's better to judge players on how you think they will do going forward than on past achievements. This is a common trap sports fans, and even a lot of sports teams, fall into where they pay players and apply expectations on them for their past achievements purely and not how they think they will do going forward. It's one area that advanced stats have actually helped a lot with in providing some objectivity to player projections and how you think they will perform going forward based on statistical performance that will translate into future success.

 

[Evilo]

Nah the common trap is WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW kind of thought, without thinking of context. The Arsenal context right now doesn't need any explanation.
Your current reasonning means Aubameyang and Lacazette are crap.

Using advanced stats doesn't change the fact Arsenal are playing putrid football. I've been saying this for months and people flamed me for it. Now only are some people seeing the light.

 

[The Abusement Park]

TAB, you can't seriously say with a straight face than those back 4 on United are as good as Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney.
You know it, everyone knows it.

People can say Saliba is not proven, blah, blah, blah because they don't watch L1. But nobody who saw both players play will tell you Gabriel is better than Saliba RIGHT NOW.
That should give you an idea since Gabriel would be United's best CB.

Well Saliba doesn't play so you can't really count him since he doesn't make an impact currently.

AWB is far better than Bellerin, Maguire=Gabriel, Telles~= to Tierney. Than you have Lindelof who is waaayy better than Mustafi or Luiz. I mean I don't think GA is the end all be all for what makes a good defense but we had the 3rd least GA last season with a DDG who was woefully out of form.

 

[Blender]

Nah the common trap is WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW kind of thought, without thinking of context. The Arsenal context right now doesn't need any explanation.
Your current reasonning means Aubameyang and Lacazette are crap.

Using advanced stats doesn't change the fact Arsenal are playing putrid football. I've been saying this for months and people flamed me for it. Now only are some people seeing the light.

I never said this. I think Auba is likely on the downward slope of his career at this point based on his age, but he's still underperforming this year and should be doing better as he'd have a few years left of great performances still. If he changes his game he'd probably get even more mileage out of his career, similar to how a player like Vardy or Jaoa Moutinho are still so good in their mid 30s because they have changed their game as they have aged. Lacazette is actually playing much better than Auba this year statistically and he still seems to be doing all the right things, and is a great example of someone who would probably look much better elsewhere.

 

[Live in the Now]

Some of those players on the field have just been no where near as good as you might expect on paper either, under Emery and/or Arteta depending on the player. I don't think it's the right approach to judge players based on past reputation and perceived prestige more than actual performance.

I don't think it's unfair to say:

"Man, they shouldn't have appointed a rookie manager because he doesn't know what he's doing going forward."

"Man, how did their squad get to this point?"

Actually a bench of Xhaka, Martinelli, Kolasinac, Nelson, Saka and others is hardly bad.

Martinelli just had major knee surgery so I'm not too sure about that one. Their bench CB's would also be horrendous. They also loaned Guendouzi like a bunch of idiots, so even a new manager wouldn't be able to do anything about that this season.

I mean, maybe they have a top six squad? I think it's ridiculous that we're even discussing this considering their wealth. We've also still not seen how bad it could actually get. If Auba or Laca got hurt it feels like they'd never score.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

I agree

 

[Jussi]

I thought team threads weren't allowed? At least weren't when we last time attempted it.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

1 goal from being the 5th best club in London.

 

[Chimaera]

"Man, they shouldn't have appointed a rookie manager because he doesn't know what he's doing going forward."

"Man, how did their squad get to this point?"

I would really like to see what they would look like if they had the courage to appoint Nuno.

 

[Chimaera]

My issue with trying to say they have a top 6 squad, is, honestly, who plays for teams around them consistently if you were to compare rosters? How many of those XI make the squad sheet for City, Liverpool, or even some of the others if everyone is healthy?

I would spot you Auba, but beyond him, is there any bang on starter for another competitor for the top 4? Partey should be at some point, but he just got here. Tierney is good, though injuries, and he's behind Chilwell and Robertson at least. I think both central defenders might be able to make it, but Saliba can't get in the side of a team that bad. Maybe 2 or 3 players get into a side with Spurs/Chelsea, and maybe 4-5 with United. Hell, I think there's an argument to be made that their roster is closer to Wolves and Everton when healthy than it is any of their competitors for the top 4.

Healthy, I think Leicester's midfield walks all over that midfield lineup (at least until Partey shows he's ready for the EPL).

Then we aren't even getting to manager. In the top 6-7, other than Ole (lololol) they have the worst manager. Or at best, least experienced. Even Lampard has more experience.

 

[MS]

I'm hardly an Arsenal fan, but it takes serious blinders to avoid seeing Arsenal has a top 6 roster.
Again :
Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

EASILY top 6 starting XI.

I'm an Arsenal fan and that sucks.

Pretty much everyone there save Partey and Gabriel is either an overrated 'name' veteran who was good in 2015 and kinda sucks now or a middling young player struggling to contribute at this level who wouldn't be out of place at West Ham or Newcastle. And Saliba, who is a big prospect but having just turned 19 wouldn't be starting at CB for any team contending for Europe.

Once Partey settles he's the only guy on that roster who would be a regular starter for a top-5/6 team.