Around the NHL

[RabidOne]

A Subaru. Damn thing hangs out at the mall all day - and the mall isn't even open.

Watch that oil consumption!

 

[Buffdog]

I thought only lesbians bought Subarus lol

How an Ad Campaign Made Lesbians Fall in Love with Subaru

Also, if I'm gonna go "full off topic", might as well get a chuckle out of it

 

[Oilpeg]

There was never a time when Manitoba tested anyone and everyone. You were always required to have symptoms. The positivity rate was running at < .5% until Aug 5. Its spring peak was 2.7% April 3. There were a couple of short-lived little peaks in between that never got above 1%.

The thing I watch with the positivity rate is also the number of tests performed. When that is down, like it was today, it seems likely that the positivity rate will be higher. Similar to your point, but not dependent on who is allowed to get tested.

Edit: Sorry to hear you had to go through this. Hope your symptoms were not too bad and that you don't have any of the 'long-haul' symptoms.

I shouldn't have said anyone and everyone was tested, it's still anyone who wants a test can get one, but in the beginning they were telling everyone who called health links to get tested, this was the case at the beginning of November when my issues started. By the time I actually got my results, (a whole damn week later!!, but that's a separate issue altogether), they only told my close contacts to monitor their symptoms and NOT to go get tested. It changed drastically during that week alone. I feel like they're testing far less people, or if they're not testing less, they're testing ones who are more likely to have it. I could be wrong, but that's what I see from my experience.

Thanks, Mort. I've only got two symptoms still hanging around, my sense of smell is still very weak and I'm still very tired all the time. Otherwise, I'm perfectly fine. I was very lucky that I had a mild case and I know it's not like that for everyone.

 

[cbcwpg]

How do you like it ?

Really like it. It's physically a raised Impreza ... but I'm moving up 12 years in tech as well, which is a huge leap.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Guardian17]

NHL Team Values 2020: Hockey’s First Decline In Two Decades

 

[Jets 31]

NHL Team Values 2020: Hockey’s First Decline In Two Decades

That's what happens when you are almost at the cap and miss some home games and home playoff dates . Either that or True North is fudging numbers to try and get Laine to sign a cheap deal.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

Man, Tampa will feast on that division if they end up doing only intra-division games.

 

[surixon]

That's what happens when you are almost at the cap and miss some home games and home playoff dates . Either that or True North is fudging numbers to try and get Laine to sign a cheap deal.

I am actually pretty impressed that they only lost that amount given the lost gate, concession and television revenue.

They would have been on track to break even or make a slight profit had we played the remaining games.

Edit:

They probably did break even when you factor in the $300 to $500 million the players still owe the owners.

That is roughly $9.5 to $16 million per team.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

NHL Team Values 2020: Hockey’s First Decline In Two Decades

Does Forbes have access to team financial information, or is this just a bunch of WAGs from their writers?

 

[surixon]

Does Forbes have access to team financial information, or is this just a bunch of WAGs from their writers?

Its educated guess work. They most certainly don't have access to teams financials.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I shouldn't have said anyone and everyone was tested, it's still anyone who wants a test can get one, but in the beginning they were telling everyone who called health links to get tested, this was the case at the beginning of November when my issues started. By the time I actually got my results, (a whole damn week later!!, but that's a separate issue altogether), they only told my close contacts to monitor their symptoms and NOT to go get tested. It changed drastically during that week alone. I feel like they're testing far less people, or if they're not testing less, they're testing ones who are more likely to have it. I could be wrong, but that's what I see from my experience.

Thanks, Mort. I've only got two symptoms still hanging around, my sense of smell is still very weak and I'm still very tired all the time. Otherwise, I'm perfectly fine. I was very lucky that I had a mild case and I know it's not like that for everyone.

I've never tried to get tested so I don't know from experience - but Pallister and Roussin still keep saying that you should only request a test if you have symptoms. They have never said anything other than that AFAIK.

The number of tests has fallen off recently. Pallister complains about that on one hand while discouraging getting tested on the other.

Testing is, and has been from the beginning, a big fail in Manitoba, IMO. It is not being used to quickly identify and isolate those spreading the disease. How can it be when it takes 5-8 days to get results to people? The contact tracing after a positive test is another sore spot. It too is too little, too late. Contacts should be getting tested, not simply told to monitor themselves for symptoms. Like who isn't doing that already? They should get a test result within 24-48 hrs and should be told to self-isolate until they get that result. That would have stopped the spread.

But test positivity has still gone from about .3% to over 14% at its peak and now hovers around 13.5%. It doesn't vary a lot from a day of 1,600 tests completed to a day of 3500 tests completed, but it does seem to be a little higher on the days with fewer tests.

The effects of these variations in test numbers and in who can get tested will be small when compared to positivity rates that have risen by a factor of about 50:1. I'm not getting hung up on small variations in the positivity rates from day to day. I want to see them drop to about 1 quarter or 1 third of what they are now before I get too excited about making progress in getting this 2nd wave under control. Regardless of variations in the test numbers or availability.

Good to hear you are almost recovered. Still, your lingering mild symptoms show how this disease is different from most illnesses we are more familiar with. They are still finding new symptoms and more evidence of serious long term effects. We still don't know if some of them will be permanent.

Crazy times we are living through right now, in more ways than one. We will be learning more about this pandemic for years to come.

 

[Buffdog]

I've never tried to get tested so I don't know from experience - but Pallister and Roussin still keep saying that you should only request a test if you have symptoms. They have never said anything other than that AFAIK.

The number of tests has fallen off recently. Pallister complains about that on one hand while discouraging getting tested on the other.

Testing is, and has been from the beginning, a big fail in Manitoba, IMO. It is not being used to quickly identify and isolate those spreading the disease. How can it be when it takes 5-8 days to get results to people? The contact tracing after a positive test is another sore spot. It too is too little, too late. Contacts should be getting tested, not simply told to monitor themselves for symptoms. Like who isn't doing that already? They should get a test result within 24-48 hrs and should be told to self-isolate until they get that result. That would have stopped the spread.

But test positivity has still gone from about .3% to over 14% at its peak and now hovers around 13.5%. It doesn't vary a lot from a day of 1,600 tests completed to a day of 3500 tests completed, but it does seem to be a little higher on the days with fewer tests.

The effects of these variations in test numbers and in who can get tested will be small when compared to positivity rates that have risen by a factor of about 50:1. I'm not getting hung up on small variations in the positivity rates from day to day. I want to see them drop to about 1 quarter or 1 third of what they are now before I get too excited about making progress in getting this 2nd wave under control. Regardless of variations in the test numbers or availability.

Good to hear you are almost recovered. Still, your lingering mild symptoms show how this disease is different from most illnesses we are more familiar with. They are still finding new symptoms and more evidence of serious long term effects. We still don't know if some of them will be permanent.

Crazy times we are living through right now, in more ways than one. We will be learning more about this pandemic for years to come.

Positive % will be higher if you're only testing symptomatic people.

Fwiw, the vaccine trials included symptomology as a criteria for cases.

 

[Oilpeg]

I've never tried to get tested so I don't know from experience - but Pallister and Roussin still keep saying that you should only request a test if you have symptoms. They have never said anything other than that AFAIK.

The number of tests has fallen off recently. Pallister complains about that on one hand while discouraging getting tested on the other.

Testing is, and has been from the beginning, a big fail in Manitoba, IMO. It is not being used to quickly identify and isolate those spreading the disease. How can it be when it takes 5-8 days to get results to people? The contact tracing after a positive test is another sore spot. It too is too little, too late. Contacts should be getting tested, not simply told to monitor themselves for symptoms. Like who isn't doing that already? They should get a test result within 24-48 hrs and should be told to self-isolate until they get that result. That would have stopped the spread.

But test positivity has still gone from about .3% to over 14% at its peak and now hovers around 13.5%. It doesn't vary a lot from a day of 1,600 tests completed to a day of 3500 tests completed, but it does seem to be a little higher on the days with fewer tests.

The effects of these variations in test numbers and in who can get tested will be small when compared to positivity rates that have risen by a factor of about 50:1. I'm not getting hung up on small variations in the positivity rates from day to day. I want to see them drop to about 1 quarter or 1 third of what they are now before I get too excited about making progress in getting this 2nd wave under control. Regardless of variations in the test numbers or availability.

Good to hear you are almost recovered. Still, your lingering mild symptoms show how this disease is different from most illnesses we are more familiar with. They are still finding new symptoms and more evidence of serious long term effects. We still don't know if some of them will be permanent.

Crazy times we are living through right now, in more ways than one. We will be learning more about this pandemic for years to come.

It really is bad how long the results take. By the time I actually received my results, my cough and stuffy nose were nearly gone. I never thought for a second that I had anything but a head cold, a mild one at that. I stayed home while awaiting my test, but I didn't isolate from the family, which I wish I had known better. Luckily everyone around me was fine though, no symptoms.

Another giant failure is the actual care I received. I tested on a Monday, didn't see results until Saturday. I got a call on Saturday from a nurse, then I got a call from the tracing people on the Sunday. I never received another call from anyone. I was told that my infections period would be over on the Wednesday, so only three more days, however without any call saying I was clear, I remained isolated from my family until the following Saturday. I tried to call Health Links on the Thursday to find out what I should be doing and after a three-hour wait on hold, I was told a nurse would call me back. I got that call at about 930 that night from the nurse from Health Links who told me I have to wait for the Manitoba Health nurse to call. They never called. I reached out to a friend who works with the WRHA to get some advice, at which point she told me if my symptoms had improved and I had no fever, I was free to end my isolation. My wife, who obviously was deemed a close contact and was forced to isolate because she was in contact with me, got a call when her isolation period was almost over. She made that guy talk to me to make sure I was clear too. It wasn't until after that call, which happened on the Sunday (two weeks after my positive result), that I got a call from, I don't even know who asking if she could close my file. Was a pretty shitty experience in dealing with Manitoba Health overall, guess it made up for my mild symptoms.

This stuff really has nothing to do with the Around the League stuff we're supposed to be talking about, so sorry about that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Positive % will be higher if you're only testing symptomatic people.

Fwiw, the vaccine trials included symptomology as a criteria for cases.View attachment 378572

Yes, I get that. But we were only testing symptomatic people in the summer too, when the positivity rate was .3%. The test positivity rate has gone up 50:1 since then. Or compare to May when it was .1%, a 150 times increase. The first peak was in April at 2.7%, the second was in August at 3%. Test criteria were the same then. Number of tests was roughly the same also. Right now, I would be happy to see it at what was our peak level either of those previous times. We would be seeing closer to 75 new cases per day instead of 300.

 

[Buffdog]

Yes, I get that. But we were only testing symptomatic people in the summer too, when the positivity rate was .3%. The test positivity rate has gone up 50:1 since then. Or compare to May when it was .1%, a 150 times increase. The first peak was in April at 2.7%, the second was in August at 3%. Test criteria were the same then. Number of tests was roughly the same also. Right now, I would be happy to see it at what was our peak level either of those previous times. We would be seeing closer to 75 new cases per day instead of 300.

Absolutely. I think we ducked the first wave almost completely vs much of the rest of the world.

That said, they still test some asymptomatic people, but only if there is a good reason such as they're healthcare workers or have been in direct, sustained contact with a known case. 20-25% of all positivesnin MB have been asymptomatic since this started. This is from the MB government's in depth weekly update

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It really is bad how long the results take. By the time I actually received my results, my cough and stuffy nose were nearly gone. I never thought for a second that I had anything but a head cold, a mild one at that. I stayed home while awaiting my test, but I didn't isolate from the family, which I wish I had known better. Luckily everyone around me was fine though, no symptoms.

Another giant failure is the actual care I received. I tested on a Monday, didn't see results until Saturday. I got a call on Saturday from a nurse, then I got a call from the tracing people on the Sunday. I never received another call from anyone. I was told that my infections period would be over on the Wednesday, so only three more days, however without any call saying I was clear, I remained isolated from my family until the following Saturday. I tried to call Health Links on the Thursday to find out what I should be doing and after a three-hour wait on hold, I was told a nurse would call me back. I got that call at about 930 that night from the nurse from Health Links who told me I have to wait for the Manitoba Health nurse to call. They never called. I reached out to a friend who works with the WRHA to get some advice, at which point she told me if my symptoms had improved and I had no fever, I was free to end my isolation. My wife, who obviously was deemed a close contact and was forced to isolate because she was in contact with me, got a call when her isolation period was almost over. She made that guy talk to me to make sure I was clear too. It wasn't until after that call, which happened on the Sunday (two weeks after my positive result), that I got a call from, I don't even know who asking if she could close my file. Was a pretty shitty experience in dealing with Manitoba Health overall, guess it made up for my mild symptoms.

This stuff really has nothing to do with the Around the League stuff we're supposed to be talking about, so sorry about that.

Interesting story. It fits with what I was suspecting but can't know for certain. I think that Manitoba (I will say the province rather than naming names because we don't know who played what role) dropped the ball in preparing for the 2nd/3rd wave. Maybe complacency due to early good fortune, maybe fiscal hesitation, or some other line of thought. Who knows? But the people on the front lines, like the contact tracers, public health nurses and testing lab staff, were not provided with sufficient resources.

To get back closer to the topic, I'm hoping we will be in a decent position to have a hockey season by Jan 13. Good to hear that Man. is willing to accept a reasonable plan from the Jets. I'm optimistic at this point.

 

[Buffdog]

Interesting story. It fits with what I was suspecting but can't know for certain. I think that Manitoba (I will say the province rather than naming names because we don't know who played what role) dropped the ball in preparing for the 2nd/3rd wave. Maybe complacency due to early good fortune, maybe fiscal hesitation, or some other line of thought. Who knows? But the people on the front lines, like the contact tracers, public health nurses and testing lab staff, were not provided with sufficient resources.

To get back closer to the topic, I'm hoping we will be in a decent position to have a hockey season by Jan 13. Good to hear that Man. is willing to accept a reasonable plan from the Jets. I'm optimistic at this point.

Yup. I'm torn between being pissed that the jets can play hockey but my kids can't and being excited to have at least something small to look forward to.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yup. I'm torn between being pissed that the jets can play hockey but my kids can't and being excited to have at least something small to look forward to.

Yeah, your kids league isn't able to take the steps the NHL can. A lot of these restrictions will create illogical little pockets, but our leaders can't get everything perfect (can they get anything perfect? ) as they are dealing with this thing on the fly.

I'm not generally a Pallister fan, but I am cutting him a little slack on some of this Covid fight. So far, I have seen him at least being willing to listen and adapt to some of the issues. Not all political leaders have been doing that.

 

[Buffdog]

Yeah, your kids league isn't able to take the steps the NHL can. A lot of these restrictions will create illogical little pockets, but our leaders can't get everything perfect (can they get anything perfect? ) as they are dealing with this thing on the fly.

I'm not generally a Pallister fan, but I am cutting him a little slack on some of this Covid fight. So far, I have seen him at least being willing to listen and adapt to some of the issues. Not all political leaders have been doing that.

Ha that's funny. I'm the opposite (not that I was ever a fan per se, just neutral - I'm largely apolitical).

They saw what happened out east when we ducked it in the spring and had 8 months to get long term care and the ability to ramp up ICU capacity squared away. They didn't, then memtionned the other day that the "second wave" (which is actually our first) surprised and dissapointed them.

I'm surprised a bunch of crazy hockey parents haven't pitched in a bought a testing lab lol. Most of them have a few grand sitting around because of the cancelation of spring hockey and the lack of a season thus far. I know that even though my income is down because of all this, it's partially offset by not having to pay for kids activities. Always a bright side

Any idea onnthe teams that were thinking of maybe opting out die to financial concerns? Could be anyone from the sens to sunbelt teams

 

[EpicGingy]

Ha that's funny. I'm the opposite (not that I was ever a fan per se, just neutral - I'm largely apolitical).

They saw what happened out east when we ducked it in the spring and had 8 months to get long term care and the ability to ramp up ICU capacity squared away. They didn't, then memtionned the other day that the "second wave" (which is actually our first) surprised and dissapointed them.

I'm surprised a bunch of crazy hockey parents haven't pitched in a bought a testing lab lol. Most of them have a few grand sitting around because of the cancelation of spring hockey and the lack of a season thus far. I know that even though my income is down because of all this, it's partially offset by not having to pay for kids activities. Always a bright side

Any idea onnthe teams that were thinking of maybe opting out die to financial concerns? Could be anyone from the sens to sunbelt teams

I don't think individual teams can opt out (but I'm not an expert on the CBA).

I imagine the NHLPA would be upset if members on certain teams didn't get paid because a few owners didn't want to play when the rest of the league was.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ha that's funny. I'm the opposite (not that I was ever a fan per se, just neutral - I'm largely apolitical).

They saw what happened out east when we ducked it in the spring and had 8 months to get long term care and the ability to ramp up ICU capacity squared away. They didn't, then memtionned the other day that the "second wave" (which is actually our first) surprised and dissapointed them.

I'm surprised a bunch of crazy hockey parents haven't pitched in a bought a testing lab lol. Most of them have a few grand sitting around because of the cancelation of spring hockey and the lack of a season thus far. I know that even though my income is down because of all this, it's partially offset by not having to pay for kids activities. Always a bright side

Any idea onnthe teams that were thinking of maybe opting out die to financial concerns? Could be anyone from the sens to sunbelt teams

I said some slack. They totally blew the 6 months of prep time we were granted.

Yeah, some hockey parents are both rich enough and crazy enough. Maybe not enough of them though.

 

[TCsmyth]

Daily new cases has come down. Daily deaths and positivity rates have come down much less. It is that positivity rate that bothers me but I expect it will drop pretty sharply soon.

Guys, real question here (not trying to be a smartass)...nobody has been able to tell me the significance of the positivity rate? I completely understand if we are doing broad based community testing - then the positivity rate would carry some significance to me. However, there is a much concerted effort to ask that you only get tested if you are "experiencing symptoms..." .

Knowing that Covid is generally the only game in town right now as it relates to respiratory viruses - would we not expect a significant number of people that have "symptoms" to test positive? What am I missing here??

Again, being very serious about wanting to understand this. A medical researcher colleague of mine just chuckles and smirks when this notion of positivity rate is used in crafting current policy vis-a-vis only looking at symptomatic testing.

 

[TCsmyth]

There was never a time when Manitoba tested anyone and everyone. You were always required to have symptoms. The positivity rate was running at < .5% until Aug 5. Its spring peak was 2.7% April 3. There were a couple of short-lived little peaks in between that never got above 1%.

The thing I watch with the positivity rate is also the number of tests performed. When that is down, like it was today, it seems likely that the positivity rate will be higher. Similar to your point, but not dependent on who is allowed to get tested.

Edit: Sorry to hear you had to go through this. Hope your symptoms were not too bad and that you don't have any of the 'long-haul' symptoms.

Hi Mort, not entirely true, I was tested twice out of an abundance of caution with no symptoms (I saw alot of the public).

 

[Krauser]

Guys, real question here (not trying to be a smartass)...nobody has been able to tell me the significance of the positivity rate? I completely understand if we are doing broad based community testing - then the positivity rate would carry some significance to me. However, there is a much concerted effort to ask that you only get tested if you are "experiencing symptoms..." .

Knowing that Covid is generally the only game in town right now as it relates to respiratory viruses - would we not expect a significant number of people that have "symptoms" to test positive? What am I missing here??

Again, being very serious about wanting to understand this. A medical researcher colleague of mine just chuckles and smirks when this notion of positivity rate is used in crafting current policy vis-a-vis only looking at symptomatic testing.

Not all testing is done in the community, and limited to people with typical symptoms. Patients admitted to hospital and people with known contact to an outbreak (in care homes, etc) will also be tested, even with less typical symptoms, or sometimes with no symptoms at all.

It’s useful to follow test positivity rates in conjunction with new cases totals, so any significant variation in test frequency is accounted for. Testing can be easier or harder to get, and results can be delayed or expedited, so the new cases total j a given day can be misleadingly larger or smaller.

In a situation where testing capacity and usage is roughly stable over the long run, test positivity is less relevant. Tracking a rolling average of new cases accomplishes something fairly similar in terms of smoothing out any small variations from day to day, as long as those variations tend to even out within a week.