OT: Around the NHL - The Big Asterisks Era

[Gurglesons]

Ya whatever happens, happens.

It’s just going to blow with no NHL in the fall.

I mean. We will have NHL likely through October and then it will restart on January 1st. Plus, UFA, maybe the draft, and other types of activities in the fall. Should be exciting as long as people don't get sick and / or we all die.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How can people take this in a bad way? Good on them. I think my only thought is... NHL did have an initiative on their own. Is that not supported? I actually thought the NHL and Willie O'Ree teamed up to do some great things for kids and what not? He came to Pittsburgh one time, I believe after the unfortunate shooting, and f***ing dude could speak. Incredible leader.

But he if they wnat to all join forces and make it better? Let's go. Let's take that as a positive.

Mate, what they had wasn't as much of a "inclusive for all" sort of thing, it was more or less "Hey, racism exists, let's just talk about it and hope it moves people to do things." The times the NHL could have had a pair of f***ing balls, was when the Daley incident happened and JVB just had to quit and say some mediocre apology and still has a career for it. Because that happened in the age of the internet, were more people were exposed to that news and could have spoken up, then didn't. It took Aliu to speak up, then something more heinous to happen in the world, to put the f***ing fear of backlash into people doing the right thing.

Don't get it twisted, change isn't happening because people want it to, it's happening because people are scared. I am f***ing ok with that, be scared, now people will get how we feel.

Right now, we are finally getting heard and there are people that want to make things happen, the biggest change I see is...actual change and movement. But like you, I can't understand what that issue is. This isn't just for us "people of color or black people" it's a massive change for all. The league is diverse, but it can also be even move diverse if we can reach out to those that think "I can't play this, because it's a white people's game and it's for well off white people" which is what a lot of people in my community think when hockey is approached to you as a "hey wanna play?"

There's a reason why we are strong in numbers for football, soccer, and basketball. Cost of equipment is pennies vs the hockey stuff and then there's the visibility in each of those sports vs hockey.

It'll be great for the Asian players, Indian players, Aboriginal players, etc. It wasn't so long ago, players were still being insensitive to Aboriginal players as well as Black players, it still is an issue. But I don't think we should forget guys like Yamamoto or Khaira. They don't have the support or voice yet, we know how that feels, we should also make that our mission to expose and eradicate racism in this sport (trying to stay out of the political stuff as requested).

I hope I made some sense, in addition to your thoughts (which I agree).

 

[Gurglesons]

Mate, what they had wasn't as much of a "inclusive for all" sort of thing, it was more or less "Hey, racism exists, let's just talk about it and hope it moves people to do things." The times the NHL could have had a pair of f***ing balls, was when the Daley incident happened and JVB just had to quit and say some mediocre apology and still has a career for it. Because that happened in the age of the internet, were more people were exposed to that news and could have spoken up, then didn't. It took Aliu to speak up, then something more heinous to happen in the world, to put the f***ing fear of backlash into people doing the right thing.

Don't get it twisted, change isn't happening because people want it to, it's happening because people are scared. I am f***ing ok with that, be scared, now people will get how we feel.

Right now, we are finally getting heard and there are people that want to make things happen, the biggest change I see is...actual change and movement. But like you, I can't understand what that issue is. This isn't just for us "people of color or black people" it's a massive change for all. The league is diverse, but it can also be even move diverse if we can reach out to those that think "I can't play this, because it's a white people's game and it's for well off white people" which is what a lot of people in my community think when hockey is approached to you as a "hey wanna play?"

There's a reason why we are strong in numbers for football, soccer, and basketball. Cost of equipment is pennies vs the hockey stuff and then there's the visibility in each of those sports vs hockey.

It'll be great for the Asian players, Indian players, Aboriginal players, etc. It wasn't so long ago, players were still being insensitive to Aboriginal players as well as Black players, it still is an issue. But I don't think we should forget guys like Yamamoto or Khaira. They don't have the support or voice yet, we know how that feels, we should also make that our mission to expose and eradicate racism in this sport (trying to stay out of the political stuff as requested).

I hope I made some sense, in addition to your thoughts (which I agree).

Hey, man. Give the hockey world credit. It isn’t like JVB is in an extremely powerful position that released a BLM statement....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hey, man. Give the hockey world credit. It isn’t like JVB is in an extremely powerful position that released a BLM statement....

No, instead he used the N word and then played up some personal bs, so really it was a backhanded apology and he's still working in Amateur Hockey.

That isn't right.

Mate, there is no circumstance in his f***ing life, where he can use that word and then still work in that world. The fact that he still does, is privilege.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, instead he used the N word and then played up some personal bs, so really it was a backhanded apology and he's still working in Amateur Hockey.

That isn't right.

Mate, there is no circumstance in his f***ing life, where he can use that word and then still work in that world. The fact that he still does, is privilege.

Yeah, it’s a total joke the level of position he has.

 

[LOGiK]

Yeah it's ridiculous at this point. They need to just grow up and cancel the season and maybe just start the off season and hold a camp and all that jazz. If anything start the season in September and fix the schedule so they don't keep wanking about with the crazy amount of back to backs.

Been saying this for months already. They will be lucky to have a 2020-2021 season.

I gave up weeks ago following hockey news because there is no way in hell they are playing this year.

Maybe the NHL will get lucky and be able to have the 2019-2020 stanley cup playoffs in the spring of 2021 if they are lucky.... since they are so adamant on picking up where they left off in the season.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You absolutely must have competent leadership within your country to expect this better case scenario they are hoping for.

I can’t take this comment any deeper without breaking my promise to Cole, so I’ll leave it at that.

Well NZ is essentially another world: little population density, not a major international destination, etc

Nothing in the US resembles NZ except maybe the UP of Michigan lol

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Well NZ is essentially another world: little population density, not a major international destination, etc

Nothing in the US resembles NZ except maybe the UP of Michigan lol

Yeah...but NZ isn't that extreme in terms of isolation. Auckland is about the size of Nashville and the country is a very popular tourist destination (covid struck when they were at peak tourist season)...just not a business destination. Size and density-wise it's very similar to Finland, just without the land borders.

That latter part certainly is a huge, near incalculable benefit in this situation, but still.

 

[BHD]

Another day, another thread where someone uses a small, selective sample size to discredit Crosby. It's like a food critic going to a 4-star restaurant and pushing side all of their critically acclaimed meals before ordering.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Another day, another thread where someone uses a small, selective sample size to discredit Crosby. It's like a food critic going to a 4-star restaurant and pushing side all of their critically acclaimed meals before ordering.

What are the odds a caps fan started it? The 12 am judge will be all up in that

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Came across this on FB

"In the 2004 Eastern Conference final against the Philadelphia Flyers, the Lightning blew a lead in Game 6, then lost in overtime. André Roy remembered the gloomy mood on the charter home.
“It was so dead and silent on the plane. Everybody had their tails between their legs,” Roy said. “(Lightning winger Martin) St. Louis came and sat beside me and said, ‘André, we’ve got to do something. We’ve got to forget about this game and think about Game 7. Change the mood.’ I said, “Yeah, well … I don’t know Marty, I have nothing in mind right now.’”
A couple of minutes later, according to Roy, one of the flight attendants collapsed at the back of the plane. While she was taking catching her breath, a light bulb went on.
“I decided I was going to grab an apron and serve the food,” Roy said. “I got to the back of the plane and saw a tray with a bunch of cookies. I got butt naked, put on the apron, and went to the front of the plane. I put a cookie in my butt crack and walked down the aisle, saying (in high pitch), ‘Would you like a cookie? Would anybody like a cookie? Who wants a cookie?’ and then turned around to show them where the cookie was.
“You had to be there. It was pretty funny. The guys all started laughing. Torts was watching the game on his laptop and turned around, saying, ‘What’s going on?’ And then he was like, “Is that André again?’ and somebody said, ‘Yeah, André did something.’
“So yeah, serving cookies naked, with a chocolate chip cookie in my ass … that was basically it. It was a good moment. We had some giggles. And we won Game 7 … because I had a cookie in my butt crack.”
Credit: Ottawa Sun

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Well NZ is essentially another world: little population density, not a major international destination, etc

Nothing in the US resembles NZ except maybe the UP of Michigan lol

I guess we can keep trying to tell ourselves that, sure.

 

[SomeDude]

Botterill finally put out of his misery in Buffalo. What a bullet this franchise dodged by going out and getting JR rather than the ‘obvious’ move of promoting JB.

Whoever in the Pens brass that saw what kept them from giving him the reigns deserves a statue next to Mario.

 

[LOGiK]

Another day, another thread where someone uses a small, selective sample size to discredit Crosby. It's like a food critic going to a 4-star restaurant and pushing side all of their critically acclaimed meals before ordering.

What are the odds a caps fan started it? The 12 am judge will be all up in that

Where is this at?

Probably by some guy who never watched the NHL until Crosby came into the league.

People hate that Crosby alone shot the NHL into the lime light. I think people forget (or just don't know) that Crosby was a must-watch athlete around the world and attendances grew for away games that featured him. Not even to mention tv ratings and an army of 'kids' and young people alike wanting to play hockey to 'be like sid'.

I wonder what the ratings and attendance marks would be pre-sid and prime time sid exposure... 2000-2010. Yeah, OV was there and Malkin and many others making big waves, but Sid was king.

 

[Peat]

Tbh, I'd still be interested in seeing what Botterill could do a non-rubbish franchise that hasn't drafted like crap for a solid period and didn't dictate a lesser return for their biggest trade piece for financial reasons. I'm not sure he'd have done any better in the long haul, I don't particularly want him to get that chance here, but with 20/20 hindsight that was a real turd of a job to get.

 

[BHD]

Where is this at?

Probably by some guy who never watched the NHL until Crosby came into the league.

People hate that Crosby alone shot the NHL into the lime light. I think people forget (or just don't know) that Crosby was a must-watch athlete around the world and attendances grew for away games that featured him. Not even to mention tv ratings and an army of 'kids' and young people alike wanting to play hockey to 'be like sid'.

I wonder what the ratings and attendance marks would be pre-sid and prime time sid exposure... 2000-2010. Yeah, OV was there and Malkin and many others making big waves, but Sid was king.

Over the past month, the following threads were made:

- Crosby's playoff stats aren't that great if you exclude points against bad teams
- He shouldn't be considered a generational talent because he's not as good as Lemieux and Jagr
- He isn't that valuable because the Pens have a solid record without him in the lineup

Just foolish arguments purported by the same two or three people.

 

[Shockmaster]

Botterill finally put out of his misery in Buffalo. What a bullet this franchise dodged by going out and getting JR rather than the ‘obvious’ move of promoting JB.

Whoever in the Pens brass that saw what kept them from giving him the reigns deserves a statue next to Mario.

Certainly can't argue against JR's hire in 2014, but I don't know how much can be held against Botterill during his short time in Buffalo. That organization and ownership structure is beyond dysfunctional.

 

[BHD]

Botterill finally put out of his misery in Buffalo. What a bullet this franchise dodged by going out and getting JR rather than the ‘obvious’ move of promoting JB.

Whoever in the Pens brass that saw what kept them from giving him the reigns deserves a statue next to Mario.

He's like that assistant coach. Just because they bring something to the table, doesn't mean they're suited to run the show.

Tbh, I'd still be interested in seeing what Botterill could do a non-rubbish franchise that hasn't drafted like crap for a solid period and didn't dictate a lesser return for their biggest trade piece for financial reasons. I'm not sure he'd have done any better in the long haul, I don't particularly want him to get that chance here, but with 20/20 hindsight that was a real turd of a job to get.

Yes and no. The Sabres are a mess. However, he didn't really improve their outlook during his time there.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

99% of this board, me included, wanted Botterill instead of JR.

Thank God we aren’t the ones calling the shots

 

[LOGiK]

Over the past month, the following threads were made:

- Crosby's playoff stats aren't that great if you exclude points against bad teams
- He shouldn't be considered a generational talent because he's not as good as Lemieux and Jagr
- He isn't that valuable because the Pens have a solid record without him in the lineup

Just foolish arguments purported by the same two or three people.

Oh. Ehhh

Some topics aren't worth the time and effort.

Sid isn't valuable? HAH... seriously? That is a straight out 'not appreciating what you have until its gone' kinda thing to say.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Botterill finally put out of his misery in Buffalo. What a bullet this franchise dodged by going out and getting JR rather than the ‘obvious’ move of promoting JB.

Whoever in the Pens brass that saw what kept them from giving him the reigns deserves a statue next to Mario.

I mean, he was only 37 at the time. I don't know what the numbers were like back then, but I can't imagine there were many NHL GMs that young in the spring of 2014.

I wouldn't rule out Botterill returning to the Pens fold either, tbh.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

99% of this board, me included, wanted Botterill instead of JR.

Thank God we aren’t the ones calling the shots

I'll never be happier to be wrong in my life

 

[Shady Machine]

Tough few years for Botterill. Certainly not all his fault, as Buffalo is a tire fire, but he also failed to make them better, despite some good moves on paper. Maybe he's just a good second in command guy or maybe he just needs more time to marinate before getting another shot.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Botterill finally put out of his misery in Buffalo. What a bullet this franchise dodged by going out and getting JR rather than the ‘obvious’ move of promoting JB.

Whoever in the Pens brass that saw what kept them from giving him the reigns deserves a statue next to Mario.

Big blow to the delusional people who thought Botts and not JR was the brains behind the b2b cups.

It was always funny how they danced around Botts being there while Shero was f***ing up over and over.

Keep on dancing I guess.

 

[Peat]

Yes and no. The Sabres are a mess. However, he didn't really improve their outlook during his time there.

How much can you improve a bottom of the barrel NHL team in four years?

That's a genuine question, not a rhetorical one. I know I've seen plenty of teams really struggle to get out, but I haven't really looked at all the teams and see how quick the success stories have done it. I guess Toronto would be a success story after being in the dumpster, and they had 5 years where they picked top 10 first as part of it. Does it take five years? Longer? Shorter?

His first wholly his draft was 2017. Top 10 picks aside, a draft isn't going to help in 3 years. He's been limited to what he can get in trade from a crap roster and what he can bring in FA to a crap market. My guess is most guys in his position wouldn't have done much better. Maybe with ace drafting?

I guess we'll see how the next guy does. They do at least a bit more to work with young player wise than Botterill did.

I mean, he was only 37 at the time. I don't know what the numbers were like back then, but I can't imagine there were many NHL GMs that young in the spring of 2014.

I wouldn't rule out Botterill returning to the Pens fold either, tbh.

I think one of the beat writers recently said the Pens would welcome him back if anything happened.