Around The NHL Part XXVIII

[Edge]

I sometimes think that people come up with ideas and theories in their heads and then think if they repeat it enough times that it must be true. not just trades but also coach interaction with players and things that we can't possibly know. I have no issue with the fantasy trades and discussing them can be fun. but the line between 'I think this would be a good idea' and 'I KNOW this info is true' somehow gets blurred.

I've often wondered this myself. Kind of the concept of creating one's own reality. You tell yourself something enough times and you start to believe it's really a thing.

It's hard to seperate the two sometimes. I try to make a clear distinction between what I want/would do compared to what the Rangers will do. Sometimes it aligns, sometimes it doesn't. But I try to avoid arguing against hypotheticals that were never really on the table as viable alternatives.

I stay away from the main boards for this reason, if i'm going to read unrealistic trades i'll do it here where the rangers win the deals LOL...

but I have zero issue with fans wanting the moon. we SHOULD have wanted point or sergachev in the mcdonagh deal. the part that drives me nuts though are the people who afterwards act like they were offered and JG said no...be disappointed that we couldn't get them but lets get a grasp of reality and know that we didn't get them cause they weren't offered.

You're right, you should always aim high. It's easier to come down on a price. But sometimes move just aren't out there.

Take this draft for example. There are guys I would trade up for. There may be guys the Rangers would trade up for. But I only know the former for sure. The latter is fuzzy.

Furthermore, I don't know the appetite of other teams or what their ask would be.

So maybe Montral, Chicago and Calgary don't want to swap picks. Or maybe the cost is prohibitively high. At that point it doesn't matter how much we like a prospect or how fair we think our offer is. The conversation is over.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Also probably true and like I said, I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity to discuss fantasy scenarios. But I do get frustrated when I see people chiding Gorton for blowing trades that were only on the table in their imagination.

The McDonagh trade in particular seems to be an egregious example. Not sure why.

 

[Trxjw]

The McDonagh trade in particular seems to be an egregious example. Not sure why.

I think possibly because of how much significance McDonagh had to our team. Captain and #1D. People were very attached and I think that made them overlook the reality of the situation.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Also love how people are so confident that we “lost” the McDonagh trade when 3/4 of the pieces haven’t even finished developing.

if Nils becomes a top-4D, Hajek becomes an Nhler, and Howden turns into a solid bottom-6 C, it’s a pretty good trade

 

[Leetch3]

Also love how people are so confident that we “lost” the McDonagh trade when 3/4 of the pieces haven’t even finished developing.

if Nils becomes a top-4D, Hajek becomes an Nhler, and Howden turns into a solid bottom-6 C, it’s a pretty good trade

i know people hate howden but i'd say that 4/4 of the pieces haven't finished developing...that type of trade you are basically guaranteed to 'lose' the trade in the short term

 

[Anthony5967]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

 

[Irishguy42]

Wild are not signing Koivu, per announcement.

Also inb4 "Rangers should sign him"

 

[kovazub94]

After Isles and Dallas got us #22 pick, I selfishly wanted this SCF, a) to not have Isles there, b) to watch 6 (important) Russian players there, c) McD and Shattenkirk.

 

[kovazub94]

After Isles and Dallas got us #22 pick, I selfishly wanted this SCF, a) to not have Isles there, b) to watch 6 (important) Russian players there, c) McD and Shattenkirk.

 

[Raspewtin]

hockey fans in general overrate young players and prospects and massively overrate potential (though notice I don't say overvalue)

they're so busy fighting about their future 3rd liners that the players they have today (that are likely better than most of their prospects will ever be) are almost seen as a nuisance and just a roadblock to a future star. it's kinda incredible lol

 

[Leetch3]

Wild are not signing Koivu, per announcement.

Also inb4 "Rangers should sign him"

is he retiring?

#KakkoNeverGetsAFriend

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

They took full advantage of the 4 month layoff and the covid cup. They aren't that good and would have likely missed the playoffs in a normal year. Hell, when the season ended the Rangers were exactly 1 point behind them and had a much better GD during the regular season. They are in cap hell and have no 1st or 2nd round pick this year and like you said they need to sign some core pieces. Lou has a lot of work to do. They will still be competitive but IMO the Rangers have the far better trajectory moving forward.

 

[Irishguy42]

is he retiring?

Nothing in regards to that has come up, so it just seems like he'll be hitting UFA.

 

[Raspewtin]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

Problem is that exactly two of those players should be part of a "core" and Lee and Pageau make a lot of money to not be those players.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

They peaked this playoff season.

Its only going to be downhill from here

 

[broadwayblue]

If only the Isles hadn't lost Tavares for NOTHING.

 

[Leetch3]

If only the Isles hadn't lost Tavares for NOTHING.

or if i panarin wanted their $$

 

[PuckLuck3043]

If only the Isles hadn't lost Tavares for NOTHING.

Major blunder on their part which makes me very happy.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

or if i panarin wanted their $$

Their fans are very sensitive about this, lol. If they had Panarin who knows how far they would have gone. Oh well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

Their forwards aren't very good tbh. Nelson, Pageau and Lee have all played their best hockey already. None of those guys are going to get any better, Lee in particular is going to have a very ugly decline.

Barzal has his obvious strengths, but no team is going to win anything with him as their go to offensive player, at least not with the supporting cast that he has.

Personally, the actual players that encompass their defense aren't anything great either. Pelech-Pulock is a good match up pairing, but they're really a 2nd pair in ideal situations. Toews is nothing special, Mayfield sucks and has never taken a shift with out committing obstruction and then you have some old heads like Boychuk, Leddy, Hickey, etc. The system helps them be effective, but Trotz doesn't need an all world defense, his group in Washington wasn't great either but that team didn't win on the strength of their defense.

Dobson is a really, really good prospect, but he also may be the only chip they have to land a good scoring forward. It's gonna be really tough for them to make substantial moves this offseason with their cap and lack of assets and Lou is really the last guy I'd want running my team if I were in the position the Isles are in.

They look destined for dreaded middle-dom more so than they do for perennial contention.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The Isles' backend is relatively young. Their core guys...
Mayfield 27
Pulock 25
Dobson 20
Toews 26

Their forwards' average age is 29. Their core needs to be Barzal, Nelson, Pageau, Lee, Wahlstrom going forward upfront. The only question is this: if that wasn't enough to win an ECF in a year that they probably wouldn't have even gotten in let alone this far, will it be enough going forward? They need a sniper, but with $8M in space, and guys like Pulock, Toews, Barzal to re-sign, where are they getting the scorer unless they trade for one? They also just moved their first round pick.

They are 3rd pairing Dmen from what I saw. Not exactly players I would consider essential to a strong core. Dobson is they're best hope on D.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Their forwards aren't very good tbh. Nelson, Pageau and Lee have all played their best hockey already. None of those guys are going to get any better, Lee in particular is going to have a very ugly decline.

Barzal has his obvious strengths, but no team is going to win anything with him as their go to offensive player, at least not with the supporting cast that he has.

Personally, the actual players that encompass their defense aren't anything great either. Pelech-Pulock is a good match up pairing, but they're really a 2nd pair in ideal situations. Toews is nothing special, Mayfield sucks and has never taken a shift with out committing obstruction and then you have some old heads like Boychuk, Leddy, Hickey, etc. The system helps them be effective, but Trotz doesn't need an all world defense, his group in Washington wasn't great either but that team didn't win on the strength of their defense.

Dobson is a really, really good prospect, but he also may be the only chip they have to land a good scoring forward. It's gonna be really tough for them to make substantial moves this offseason with their cap and lack of assets and Lou is really the last guy I'd want running my team if I were in the position the Isles are in.

They look destined for dreaded middle-dom more so than they do for perennial contention.

Lou invested heavily in role players. Not exactly a keen thing to do when the cap is remaining flat.

 

[Rongomania]

They peaked this playoff season.

Its only going to be downhill from here

Such a heartwarming post.

Silence to the most annoying fan base. I had to live amongst them until I was like 25. The last nine years have been pure bliss.

 

[Tawnos]

And that was after he stated Marner needed to be a target from Toronto.

I can tell everyone, beyond a shadow of a doubt, those names were never on the table.

A lot of these deals were essentially the same tier of players and assets: late firsts, former late first and early second round picks who turned into a solid, but not necessarily spectacular prospects, and maybe a player in his mid-20s who could go either way in his career.

That's what was the on the table, whether it was Tampa, or Boston, or Toronto, or whoever at that time.

It's Howden or Raddysh. It's Hajek or Spencer. It's Lindgren or Andersson. Those are your choices.

It's pick 45 or its pick 49. It's an extra third round pick to sweeten the deal, or they keep the pick and you negotiate a chance for the second to turn into a first if criteria is met.

Those are the choices.

Not Sergachev, Marner or Keller. Or two guaranteed firsts. Or one of a team's top 3 prospects.

And it's the same reason why a few years from now the cost for the Rangers to rent guys in their late 20s/early 30s is going to be our second round picks, or someone like Skinner, or someone like Henriksson.

Fans do seem to have a hard time with the concept of “take the best deal you can get, even if isn’t quite what you want” that governs situations where you’ve decided to move a player.

 

[Edge]

Fans do seem to have a hard time with the concept of “take the best deal you can get, even if isn’t quite what you want” that governs situations where you’ve decided to move a player.

I can understand the hope that values go up with time. In fairness, it does happen once in a while.

But I don't know if it was/is likely to apply to many of the players the Rangers were/are open to moving.

In McD's case, the value was in giving someone two playoff runs with their rental, and trading him while he was 28. I couldn't visualize a scenario in which one less playoff push and a few additional months on the calendar were going to result in a substantially better deal.

I feel somewhat similar now with Georgiev, though the price and circumstances are significantly different.

But the overall point is I'm not sure that the dream deals we want are always lurking just over the horizon. At least not like we hope they are.