Around the NHL - Episode XLV

[Micklebot]

Just because Brady is at him moms house doesn’t mean that’s his primary residence . I’ve never seen any info where players and accountants setup these guys but I think your just speculating. I bet many have had accounts structure their lives to optimize their earnings.

I'm basing my specific comments on public statements and speculating that most players likely do the same. If bobby ryan was trying to maximize his earnings he'd live in a no tax state instead of idaho for example.

Certainly players will have accountants that maximize their earnings, but they are going to live where they want to live, and i suspect in a lot of cases that means close to family or just sticking at the home town if they've laid down some roots.

 

[Sweatred]

I'm basing my specific comments on public statements and speculating that most players likely do the same. If bobby ryan was trying to maximize his earnings he'd live in a no tax state instead of idaho for example.

Certainly players will have accountants that maximize their earnings, but they are going to live where they want to live, and i suspect in a lot of cases that means close to family or just sticking at the home town if they've laid down some roots.

We really have no idea what burden of prof these guys are under. Some are knowledgeable about the laws but how these play out in practice isn’t often reported. A few percentage pts of taxes easily justifies a condo and some time in a tax free state.

That also doesn’t change the original point that a bubble in a heavily taxed district may be less preferred for the players than a bubble in lightly taxed district.... I don’t really see why players would prefer to pay more tax than less.

This excludes the Jock tax.

“In 2013-14 players for the Montreal Canadiens paid the highest taxes with a tax rate of 53.9% and the Calgary Flames paid the lowest team tax rate of 38.2%.
• Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers tied for the lowest”.

 

[Silencio]

If the Sharks actually move out of San Jose as they're threatening (almost definitely an empty threat, but for the sake of argument let's assume it's true), do they end up at the Chase Center? Or would thatend up being Barclays Center 2.0? I have no idea how hockey friendly that arena is.

IMO it never made sense to have a Bay area/Silicon Valley NHL team in San Jose instead of the bigger and more famous city down the road - it's like if the Maple Leafs were based in Waterloo, or the Senators were based in Kanat-

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[foggyvisor]

Wow, they let go of the entire roster.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Man, I feel bad for the Lightning in a sense. You finally win a championship after years of being at the doorstep and your reward is a massive financial calamity affecting pro sports in a way that's almost never happened before. I'm sure they're thrilled they won but part of them must be thinking "why did we have to win it this year?"

 

[DaveMatthew]

Just because Brady is at him moms house doesn’t mean that’s his primary residence . I’ve never seen any info where players and accountants setup these guys but I think your just speculating. I bet many have had accounts structure their lives to optimize their earnings.

You can’t just “set up” a primary residence without actually living there.

If Brady Tkachuk only splits his time between Ottawa and St.Louis, his primary residence must be in one of those places.

 

[Sweatred]

You can’t just “set up” a primary residence without actually living there.

If Brady Tkachuk only splits his time between Ottawa and St.Louis, his primary residence must be in one of those places.

Why would you think Brady (or whoever) only spends time in two spots ? It’s not nearly that binary. These guys are in school, with teams, away from home working 6-9 months a year. It’s not hard to justify their main residence is a place they spend some of their off season between visiting mom and vacations .

I bet players like Chabot have done what they need to to tweak their taxation before they hit big money. If not him specifically, other like him be it Spezza, Duschene, Hoffman, Dizingle, types let alone the Europeans or Americans Dadonov EK etc.

However, that isn’t even my point. If players are paying taxes in the district they play each game, a Calgary, Toronto, or Vegas bubble could have different tax implications to players.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Why would you think Brady (or whoever) only spends time in two spots ? It’s not nearly that binary. These guys are in school, with teams, away from home working 6-9 months a year. It’s not hard to justify their main residence is a place they spend some of their off season between visiting mom and vacations .

It'd be incredibly difficult to justify that your primary residence is somewhere you spend some of your offseason (since "some" would be what, 3-4 weeks a year, at most?) and not the city in which you primarily work or the city in which your closest family ties reside. Not just difficult, but nearly impossible.

I have no doubt that athletes have tax mitigation strategies in place, but there's only so much they can do. At the end of the day, they're salaried employees and it's incredibly easy to validate where and when their work is performed. Tax codes are far more advantageous to those who write paycheques vs. those who receive them, anyway.

With that said, I don't expect tax implications to have much, if any, impact on where bubbles would be. There are so many bigger issues that need to get sorted first (safety, government restrictions, ability to go back and see family, or have family travel to you, etc).

 

[Xspyrit]

Wow, they let go of the entire roster.

Man, I feel bad for the Lightning in a sense. You finally win a championship after years of being at the doorstep and your reward is a massive financial calamity affecting pro sports in a way that's almost never happened before. I'm sure they're thrilled they won but part of them must be thinking "why did we have to win it this year?"

I'm not sure what you guys understood here. They are reducing staff, like most companies in the world. There's many worse positions to be in than the Tampa Bay Lightning. At least they just won a Cup. They surely don't regret it, even if it's this "year"

I didn't expect the Sens to be in a position to "spend". I was expecting to acquire Derek Stepan and Kris Russell, not Matt Murray and Evgeni Dadonov. Something is up with Melnyk

 

[Sweatred]

It'd be incredibly difficult to justify that your primary residence is somewhere you spend some of your offseason (since "some" would be what, 3-4 weeks a year, at most?) and not the city in which you primarily work or the city in which your closest family ties reside. Not just difficult, but nearly impossible.

I have no doubt that athletes have tax mitigation strategies in place, but there's only so much they can do. At the end of the day, they're salaried employees and it's incredibly easy to validate where and when their work is performed. Tax codes are far more advantageous to those who write paycheques vs. those who receive them, anyway.

With that said, I don't expect tax implications to have much, if any, impact on where bubbles would be. There are so many bigger issues that need to get sorted first (safety, government restrictions, ability to go back and see family, or have family travel to you, etc).

Im not sure.... players, states, and possibly provinces already take taxes for players that play in their district. I’m not sure if Vegas or Edmonton will just “not care” and not collect those taxes ? Maybe they make an arrangement ? Of they do take races it will be at their rate which will be different than the Ontario or California rate.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Im not sure.... players, states, and possibly provinces already take taxes for players that play in their district. I’m not sure if Vegas or Edmonton will just “not care” and not collect those taxes ? Maybe they make an arrangement ? Of they do take races it will be at their rate which will be different than the Ontario or California rate.

The amount of lost tax revenue by not having NHL teams play in a state is such a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, that it doesn't matter.

And from a player's perspective, while yes they want to take home as much as possible, there are so many other, more important issues that need to be ironed out that it's hard to imagine the tax implications of where "bubbles" are located are of any concern to the NHLPA or the NHL.

 

[JD1]

I'm not sure what you guys understood here. They are reducing staff, like most companies in the world. There's many worse positions to be in than the Tampa Bay Lightning. At least they just won a Cup. They surely don't regret it, even if it's this "year"

I didn't expect the Sens to be in a position to "spend". I was expecting to acquire Derek Stepan and Kris Russell, not Matt Murray and Evgeni Dadonov. Something is up with Melnyk

Could well be he's making money again. His liver situation probably cost him 3 years of health. He looked healthy on podcast compared to recent years

He said on that podcast that "i dont need this to make money, I've got lots of things on the go making money" or something similar to that

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Good thing this didn't happen to the Sens

 

[Sweatred]

The amount of lost tax revenue by not having NHL teams play in a state is such a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, that it doesn't matter.

And from a player's perspective, while yes they want to take home as much as possible, there are so many other, more important issues that need to be ironed out that it's hard to imagine the tax implications of where "bubbles" are located are of any concern to the NHLPA or the NHL.

You are missing my point. If I’m a player asked to move to a higher tax district I may voice my displeasure through my union and request a low tax district be chosen for a bubble site during negotiations.

 

[JD1]

You are missing my point. If I’m a player asked to move to a higher tax district I may voice my displeasure through my union and request a low tax district be chosen for a bubble site during negotiations.

Perhaps those voicing displeasure will be invited to take a year off and then their tax problems will disappear

 

[Xspyrit]

Could well be he's making money again. His liver situation probably cost him 3 years of health. He looked healthy on podcast compared to recent years

He said on that podcast that "i dont need this to make money, I've got lots of things on the go making money" or something similar to that

Someone speculated that Biovail was good again. I don't follow biotech at all but could actually ask a friend who took over his father biotech company

Or Melnyk won a few suits lol and he has been gambling on them? Double or nothing, money is flowing again

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Someone speculated that Biovail was good again. I don't follow biotech at all but could actually ask a friend who took over his father biotech company

Or Melnyk won a few suits lol and he has been gambling on them? Double or nothing, money is flowing again

Biovail doesn't exist anymore as far as I can tell. Check out Neurolign Technologies. .. I am sure Melnyk has his hands in a few pies

 

[JD1]

Someone speculated that Biovail was good again. I don't follow biotech at all but could actually ask a friend who took over his father biotech company

Or Melnyk won a few suits lol and he has been gambling on them? Double or nothing, money is flowing again

Biovail merged with Valeant but Melnyk was no longer involved. Valeant was for a period of time the most valuable company on the TSX. They then ran into significant trouble with how they were keeping their books, wre charged with fraud and the stock crashed. It's now called Bausch Health (after bausch and lomb the contact lens company)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/valeant-pharmaceuticals-pershing-1.4023893

 

[Sweatred]

Perhaps those voicing displeasure will be invited to take a year off and then their tax problems will disappear

Maybe ... or maybe they will get the bubbles put in favourable locations or figure out other forms of compensation. Its like you think the players don’t get a say and both sides aren’t going to figure out what to do with a potential 10% difference in take home pay which could be $100 000’s for many players.

 

[JD1]

Biovail doesn't exist anymore as far as I can tell. Check out Neurolign Technologies. .. I am sure Melnyk has his hands in a few pies

He also owns the clean beauty collective. It's private so who knows how large it is. They do sell really expensive perfume.

 

[JD1]

Maybe ... or maybe they will get the bubbles put in favourable locations or figure out other forms of compensation.

Ah no....that's not going to happen...were in the middle of a pandemic and sports owners are trying to figure out how to survive financially....there won't be other forms of compensation for players for any reason....and I'm sure there will be opt out opportunities if anyone feels that the tax burden of playing and earning an nhl salary is too much to bare...or if they don't want to play because of the pandemic

 

[Sweatred]

Ah no....that's not going to happen...were in the middle of a pandemic and sports owners are trying to figure out how to survive financially....there won't be other forms of compensation for players for any reason....and I'm sure there will be opt out opportunities if anyone feels that the tax burden of playing and earning an nhl salary is too much to bare...or if they don't want to play because of the pandemic

Ha ... says you. Like they won’t have a voice in how 10% of their payout may be received.

 

[Micklebot]

Alain Walsh seems to think taxation in for players on Canadian teams is overblown... I imagine he might know a thing or two on the subject.

 

[JD1]

Alain Walsh seems to think taxation in for players on Canadian teams is overblown... I imagine he might know a thing or two on the subject.

Maybe all the NHLers will want to be in a Canadian bubble