Around The NHL Discussion 2018-2019 - Part II

[542365]

Historically speaking by 23, that's when players are entering their prime. This is based on statistical data.

I'm sure Armstrong doesn't know that because it seems nobody in the NHL does because the common belief is players enter their prime at 25-26.

At the time, Schmaltz was 23.

If he couldn't crack the lineup or didn't fit in the organization around that time, or even the year after, there isn't really much incentive to keep him.

I find it hard to believe nobody would throw anything for him. This team burned a pick on Jerabek, who is older and already known to be pretty bad, yet can't seem to find a team that can do the same on a guy with draft pedigree and who is largely unknown at the NHL level?

It's possible we're hoping the extra contract year scares teams off and allows him to slip through. You're right that I can't imagine how Schmaltz would have less value than Jerabek, but maybe they'd rather take the gamble he makes it through waivers than just take the 6th round pick or whatever?

 

[Blueston]

2 years ago he was younger and they probably thought he'd develop.

People are always reluctant to deal prospects or young players until they know what they will be. This is the downside of that, because once they show you they aren't very good they lose all value. If we were going to get value for him it would have been a couple years ago before everyone figured out he's not very good. Maybe was too late then even. Now he has no value.

 

[Blueston]

He may be nothing. But the season is toast.

So playing him 12-15 minutes a night for the rest of the year to see what you have is a hell of a lot more valuable than playing the corpse of Bouwmeester or the other useles pending UFA in Gunnarsson. At least Bortuzzo has term and isn't completely worthless on the ice. Schmaltz, how can we know? @Majorityof1 made a great post on why we have no real clue what he is.

It's not as if we have an open space. We have 7 legit defensemen ahead of him. And sitting them drives down there value. Best way to maximize assets is write off the already valueless Schmaltz and drive up value of guys we are dealing for picks.

 

[Majorityof1]

Why would an extra year at $700k scare anyone off? If he sucks, you waive him and most likely the Blues take him back for AHL/depth. At worst, he is a good AHL player/call-up at the very least. Ideally you'd want a guy on a 2-way contract for that, but for a high quality call-up, the minors rate would still be close fairly to that. If a team takes him for NHL upside and he doesn't have it, they are out $300-400k max over just signing a 2-way depth guy. And chances are, they lose him back to the Blues if they waive him, as we can stash him in the minors and need the RH depth.

 

[Celtic Note]

We don't, but management does. Do you think management only pays attention to NHL games played? They also watch them in the minors, practice, and camp.

Given how bad we are right now, can we trust our management?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Given how bad we are right now, can we trust our management?

Lol, fair point.

 

[Brockon]

The difference between Schmaltz and Scherbak is that Scherbak has had his chance with two different organisations now.

He might be a late bloomer, but do you want to pick up a player who has shown nothing with 2 other teams and give him a chance before giving it to our own guys? A player who is probably 99% going to end up in the KHL next season?

Because nobody has ever played for 2 teams and looked terrible, only to go on to another team and explode...

2017-18 Tomas Tatar had 34 points in 82 games at age 27. 28 Points in 62 games with Detroit, 6 points in 20 games with Vegas. 2018-19 at age 28 has 31 points in 42 games.

William Karlsson 2014-2017 50 points in 183 games across 21-24 years of age with Columbus and Anaheim. 2017-18 with Vegas, 78 points in 82 games with 43 goals - nearly matching his career points in goals! 2018-19 with Vegas, 30 points in 45 games.

Granted, those players were traded for and largely represent the exception not the rule. However...

Pontus Aberg, 2017-18 played for Nashville and was claimed off waivers by Edmonton. 16 points in 53 games. Signed by Anaheim to a league minimum contract (650k) in 2018-19, 19 points in 37 games, T-1st in team goals, T-5th in team points. Strangely enough tied on both accounts with Ondrej Kase, who did it in 25 games, making 2.6m...

Michael Grabner, June 2010 traded to the Panthers from the Canucks. Waived out of training camp by Florida, claimed by the Islanders - proceeds to put up 52 points in 76 games in the 2010-11 season.

***Rich Peverley, signed by Nashville as a free agent, put up 20 points in 73 games over 2007-09. Claimed off waivers by Atlanta Thrashers and puts up 35 points in 39 games. Only played for 1 team prior to break out after waivers claim.***

You never know who will have a fire lit under their ass by being waived, or not being re-signed and go on to have a respectable or very impactful season elsewhere when rejected, given away or being given up on by their team.

 

[542365]

The fact that you have to go back a decade to find a handful of these guys is kinda the point. If we were dying for forward depth that would be one thing, but we’re not. Scherbak is no better than Sanford, Blais, Kyrou, it Fabbri and we cant find consistent playing time for any of them, so why would adding another AHL/NHL tweener help this roster? It would help San Antonio, but we’d just have to waive him again to send him there.

 

[Dbrownss]

Good lord Chicago is a tire fire.

 

[Blueston]

Good lord Chicago is a tire fire.

That would be "ahead of us in the standings tire fire".

 

[BlueDream]

That would be "ahead of us in the standings tire fire".

Yeah 1 point despite playing 5 more games... wooo

 

[Blueston]

Yeah 1 point despite playing 5 more games... wooo

Games in hand only matter if you win them.

But yes, we are likely to end up ahead of them.

 

[Dbrownss]

That would be "ahead of us in the standings tire fire".

I mean....we're a tire fire too...so?

 

[542365]

That would be "ahead of us in the standings tire fire".

They’re behind us in points percentage, which is the real standings. It’s what the league uses for waiver order and the only thing that matters really.

 

[Celtic Note]

I mean....we're a tire fire too...so?

May the best tire fire win

 

[Renard]

Because nobody has ever played for 2 teams and looked terrible, only to go on to another team and explode...

2017-18 Tomas Tatar had 34 points in 82 games at age 27. 28 Points in 62 games with Detroit, 6 points in 20 games with Vegas. 2018-19 at age 28 has 31 points in 42 games.

William Karlsson 2014-2017 50 points in 183 games across 21-24 years of age with Columbus and Anaheim. 2017-18 with Vegas, 78 points in 82 games with 43 goals - nearly matching his career points in goals! 2018-19 with Vegas, 30 points in 45 games.

Granted, those players were traded for and largely represent the exception not the rule. However...

Pontus Aberg, 2017-18 played for Nashville and was claimed off waivers by Edmonton. 16 points in 53 games. Signed by Anaheim to a league minimum contract (650k) in 2018-19, 19 points in 37 games, T-1st in team goals, T-5th in team points. Strangely enough tied on both accounts with Ondrej Kase, who did it in 25 games, making 2.6m...

Michael Grabner, June 2010 traded to the Panthers from the Canucks. Waived out of training camp by Florida, claimed by the Islanders - proceeds to put up 52 points in 76 games in the 2010-11 season.

***Rich Peverley, signed by Nashville as a free agent, put up 20 points in 73 games over 2007-09. Claimed off waivers by Atlanta Thrashers and puts up 35 points in 39 games. Only played for 1 team prior to break out after waivers claim.***

You never know who will have a fire lit under their ass by being waived, or not being re-signed and go on to have a respectable or very impactful season elsewhere when rejected, given away or being given up on by their team.

Thanks for the information. I started a thread a while ago asking the question -what NHL players have caught fire late in their careers? Other than a couple of goalies, I couldn't think of anyone. I didn't get many responses at the time, but you gave some good examples here.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The seat under Randy Carlyle should be on fire after last night. You get one of your better defensemen back, you're at home, Ottawa is coming to town, the Sens have been horrible on the road and Duchene isn't in the lineup, ... and you lose 2-1 in OT to help them end their 8-game losing streak and push yours to 9.

 

[Brockon]

Thanks for the information. I started a thread a while ago asking the question -what NHL players have caught fire late in their careers? Other than a couple of goalies, I couldn't think of anyone. I didn't get many responses at the time, but you gave some good examples here.

That wasn't exactly the criteria I was using for my examples, but thanks!

If you're looking for late bloomers there's definitely more players that fit than the 2 team waiver criteria I was trying to stick to (or at the very least, success with 3rd team, or after a waiver claim).

Off the top of my head, Alex Burrows, Brian Gibbons (his first 1/2 of the season was nothing short of incredible last year, especially with his work on the PK) and McEhlney (spelling?) all come to mind as late bloomers that made highly unexpected impacts in the "later" stages of their career - mostly due to being undrafted, and having to work their way up from the ECHL to the AHL and then the NHL.

Jacob MacDonald is looking like another guy trending that way as a 25 y/o Dman playing for Florida in the AHL currently. I've also got my eye on Alex Iafallo with LA as a 25 y/o forward showing all the signs of a successful undrafted forward - he's been respectable stat wise, I'm expecting him to show an uptick in production in another 2 years.

 

[Ranksu]

I love Torts.

 

[Dbrownss]

So you love Tortz because he does what our Coach/GM does in a less diplomatic way? Seems our guys get roasted by fans because they won't speak in detail.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So you love Tortz because he does what our Coach/GM does in a less diplomatic way? Seems our guys get roasted by fans because they won't speak in detail.

I do like when coaches call out reporters for dumb questions.

 

[Dbrownss]

I do like when coaches call out reporters for dumb questions.

I dont mind it. But I just see a guy not answering a question that here would be "how dare they not answer it"!!!!!!! Sometimes fans arent privy to shit

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Buffalo fans have been a lot quieter and not coming around here as much since it became clear the Sabres aren’t a playoff team yet after all. They’ve fallen out of the wildcard spot.

If I were a Buffalo fan, I’d want the Blues picking 11th this year, which isn’t that far from where they are right now. So maybe they have a silver lining.

 

[Blueston]

Buffalo fans have been a lot quieter and not coming around here as much since it became clear the Sabres aren’t a playoff team yet after all. They’ve fallen out of the wildcard spot.

If I were a Buffalo fan, I’d want the Blues picking 11th this year, which isn’t that far from where they are right now. So maybe they have a silver lining.

Would be funny if the pick they get from us is after their own pick.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It’s conceivable the Blues could make the playoffs with less points than Buffalo, who miss. Maybe likely even.