Around the NHL - 2023 offseason edition

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

The contract makes complete sense if you look at what other goalies have historically made.

There aren’t a ton of higher paid goalies so there’s less to go on but that also means the market is always pretty strong for them.

But then there was a rumor that Hellebuyck’s alleged salary ask, which I don’t even believe really was a thing, turned GMs off.

This led to weird HFBoard theories that no GMs would pay him close to his market value price.
All the projections were bizarrely low on term and salary.

He won a Vezina and was a finalist twice, including last season. He carries his team. He wasn’t taking a slightly better deal than what Grubauer (6 years/5.9m) or Markstrom (6 years/6m) got under a lower, frozen cap.

Sorokin got 8 years/8.25m on a deal that also starts in 2024-25. He’s younger but hasn’t won anything.

I thought Helly might go to 7 years/8m for us (or another contender) but I had a hard time seeing anyone getting anything better than that. If we got more of a discount, that would be the discount. If you don’t want to pay the price, don’t trade for him.

I don’t think he got traded because Chevy never wanted to trade him. If someone made it worth his while with a big enough offer, then sure, but that was always unlikely.

Getting a couple of roster players for PLD probably made the re-signed guys happier. Maybe buying out Wheeler eased tensions, who knows. (The Jets have outdone the Habs in goofy, confusing locker room drama lately and that’s hard to do.)

I do think it's possible NJ wasn't interested in signing this contract at all and had a hard line on term they wouldn't cross. And many FOs would simply never consider such a deal, but yeah that was the market price I agree.

 

[MartyOwns]

You realize that this is precisely why the NHLPA is taking this action, right? So that anyone that now doesn't do something, like in this case use the special tape for the night, doesn't automatically get labeled an "intolerant piece of shit" and raked over the coals by the media and social media.

Speaking of intolerance though...

yes, i realize the PA is taking this action to protect the feefees of delicate p***yes, that’s why it’s a disgrace. f*** them for kowtowing to religious bigotry.

and yes, i’m intolerant of homophobes, racists, and anyone else who feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally. i would never deny that.

i was hoping to buy a few tickets this year to see the devils in denver- f*** that. i’ll vpn stream and the league won’t get a dime. i’m sure that won’t matter to their bottom line, but it’s all i can do.

 

[JrFischer54]

If there are multiple years left and a goalie collapses it can be difficult. Look at what happened with John Gibson, the years left make that contract unmoveable. Look at what happened here with Schneider.

Listen I’m no doom and gloomer. Sure injuries can happen and the player can drop off but also neither can happen. Just go out get the best possible team now to win now and the immediate future then you adjust in the coming years to whatever presents itself.

 

[Guadana]

I dug up some old posts in the Hellebuyck trade
board thread.

View attachment 750465

View attachment 750462

Insider!

 

[JrFischer54]

yes, i realize the PA is taking this action to protect the feefees of delicate p***yes, that’s why it’s a disgrace. f*** them for kowtowing to religious bigotry.

and yes, i’m intolerant of homophobes, racists, and anyone else who feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally. i would never deny that.

i was hoping to buy a few tickets this year to see the devils in denver- f*** that. i’ll vpn stream and the league won’t get a dime. i’m sure that won’t matter to their bottom line, but it’s all i can do.

I say to each their own. I think they should do the nights and those that don’t want to partake in it don’t have to. I’m not going to think anything different of them because I don’t really care about what they think or do off the ice. Just like those that do want to support the night I don’t think anything different of them either. As long as you are good at hockey and aren’t breaking the law I don’t care about your personal beliefs.

 

[Guadana]

Listen I’m no doom and gloomer. Sure injuries can happen and the player can drop off but also neither can happen. Just go out get the best possible team now to win now and the immediate future then you adjust in the coming years to whatever presents itself.

There are no good goalies after 33 years mostly. Devils signed all of their top players, most of actual and future leaders are very young, window is big and this deal can hurt future deals of Nemec or Nico. Its a astronomically bad deal(at least for Devils), you cant deny it by "want to win now". There are way bigger chance you will win nothing "now"(especially with defensive line with two rockies and one pretty unexpirienced Bahl) than you will regret about this deal after second or even first year.
Retention for one year would be much smarter.

 

[HBK27]

Oh no, poor persecuted straight man may be forced to answer questions in something other than hockey cliches. For a sport that prides itself on toughness there sure are some colossal p***yes in it.

Why should we expect NHL players to have to share their beliefs on LGBTQ+ issues in the first place?

Were any of the players that didn't wear pride jerseys last season vocal on these issues prior to being called out by the media and social media because they opted out of doing something that was supposed to be optional? It's not like these guys were looking for the spotlight to espouse their views on the subject. They got thrust into it because they didn't do something you think they should've done.

So, why should they be subjected to having to answer for...opting out of participating in something that was supposed to be optional?

At what point are people going to at least recognize and appreciate some of the progress that's been made that we're at the point where nearly every single NHL player deciding to wear pride jerseys and the few that didn't stuck out? Certainly doesn't mean that things are perfect now, but honestly if there wasn't so much media and social media coverage of the handful of guys that didn't wear the jersey for whatever reason...and demands that they answer for their "non-actions"...and viscous attacks on their character based nothing but on this one decision of theirs...then I really don't think they would have eliminated the pride warm up jerseys.

 

[MadDevil]

Hey guys, we did it! Only a few bigots boycotted pride jerseys last year! Mission accomplished! Now we can just get rid of it!

f*** all the way off with that nonsense.

 

[HBK27]

yes, i realize the PA is taking this action to protect the feefees of delicate p***yes, that’s why it’s a disgrace. f*** them for kowtowing to religious bigotry.

and yes, i’m intolerant of homophobes, racists, and anyone else who feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally. i would never deny that.

i was hoping to buy a few tickets this year to see the devils in denver- f*** that. i’ll vpn stream and the league won’t get a dime. i’m sure that won’t matter to their bottom line, but it’s all i can do.

I don't think that there is any possibility of having a rational conversation with you on this topic is your starting point is that the NHL is "kowtowing to religious bigorty" and every player that opted out of wearing a pride jersey during warm-ups is a "religious bigot", "homophobe", racist" and or "feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally".

So, we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

Ready for the season to start.

 

[JrFischer54]

There are no good goalies after 33 years mostly. Devils signed all of their top players, most of actual and future leaders are very young, window is big and this deal can hurt future deals of Nemec or Nico. Its a astronomically bad deal(at least for Devils), you cant deny it by "want to win now". There are way bigger chance you will win nothing "now"(especially with defensive line with two rockies and one pretty unexpirienced Bahl) than you will regret about this deal after second or even first year.
Retention for one year would be much smarter.

They should have a forced retirement age for goalies.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I do not care about the rainbow stick tape

 

[Captain3rdLine]

and yes, i’m intolerant of homophobes, racists, and anyone else who feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally. i would never deny that.

I think the leagues gone too far with this but this shit is exactly the problem and why this is happening. Because the few players simply not participating and saying something goes against their beliefs (no matter how stupid those beliefs) apparently means that they don’t believe all humans should be treated equally. Like that’s an absurd jump and isn’t a remotely reasonable conclusion. It’s completely f***ed up and backward logic that is the completely opposite of progression.

These movements are pushing for respect, acceptance, and tolerance no? You don’t get that by berating and abusing anyone who’s grown up with different views. Tolerance isn’t about agreeing about everything and living the same way. It’s about recognizing the differences and accepting and treating them equally no matter how different or even stupid they may seem to you.

I don’t care what anyone else thinks or does in their own life as long as it doesn’t infringe on others.

 

[Bleedred]

I usually don’t think about this type of thing, but I wonder if this contract for Helllebuyck is literally fresh off the prices and if Fitz did discuss anything with him and just didn’t wanna give him this deal, which Winnipeg agreed to give him, then it was signed. Probably not quite, since Scheifele also re-upped the same day, but it’s certainly interesting that it was announced just hours after the report that Fitz is still interested in a goalie.

And after this, I’m not quite sure who I’d want or if there really is anything to really look at. Everyone that is truly was either just locked up or isn’t going anywhere, other than maybe Saros. Maybe if Nashville flails around this year they’ll wanna trade Saros? Other than that I just don’t know.

Anyone other than the most local Russian goalies and maybe Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck and Saros just aren’t really more than a marginal upgrade to what we have. The goalie position is truly more average now than it was 8 or 10 years ago, where it was often said that the position is average and the difference between just good and whatever isn’t as wide as the difference between great and good.

 

[Hisch13r]

Gang rape - fine

Rainbow tape - bad

Hey guys, we did it! Only a few bigots boycotted pride jerseys last year! Mission accomplished! Now we can just get rid of it!

f*** all the way off with that nonsense.

Very reminiscent of the book bans. All coming from the #FreeSpeechAdvocates too

 

[Guadana]

I usually don’t think about this type of thing, but I wonder if this contract for Helllebuyck is literally fresh off the prices and if Fitz did discuss anything with him and just didn’t wanna give him this deal, which Winnipeg agreed to give him, then it was signed. Probably not quite, since Scheifele also re-upped the same day, but it’s certainly interesting that it was announced just hours after the report that Fitz is still interested in a goalie.

And after this, I’m not quite sure who I’d want or if there really is anything to really look at. Everyone that is truly was either just locked up or isn’t going anywhere, other than maybe Saros. Maybe if Nashville flails around this year they’ll wanna trade Saros? Other than that I just don’t know.

Anyone other than the most local Russian goalies and maybe Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck and Saros just aren’t really more than a marginal upgrade to what we have. The goalie position is truly more average now than it was 8 or 10 years ago, where it was often said that the position is average and the difference between just good and whatever isn’t as wide as the difference between great and good.

I believe Nashville will start to talk about trading Sarоs only after Askarov will show something legit and sustainable on nhl level. Or other goalie prospect from the system.

 

[Bleedred]

No one should mandated to do anything, but I think that’s BS if a player isn’t allowed to use rainbow tape if he so chooses.

 

[Guttersniped]

I do not care about the rainbow stick tape

Then you shouldn’t care if individual players voluntarily use it before one game, which is what happened for years and years before the NHL decided to shit it pants over the issue and ban it.

At no point were players forced to use this tape.

Many players were in fact very enthusiastic about showing support to people they know and care about by this little gesture and now they can’t because the NHL will not let them do it.

Players themselves planned what their teams did on Pride nights and now the NHL is preventing them from doing anything.

So, yes, this is the NHL completely shitting its pants, it’s f***ing cowardly and pathetic, and people have every right to criticize them for it.

It’s not like these criticisms will do any good, this is just adding to awful original pre-game auction jerseys decision, so they’re dead set on leaning in on being spineless cowards/ right wing assholes.

So if you like this move, congrats you and the NHL’s decision makers are simpatico. (The “you” here is rhetorical and not you specifically @SteveCangialosi123 . I just happened to respond to your post. I’m not yelling at/referring to you in particular here at all.)

 

[Bleedred]

I believe Nashville will start to talk about trading Sara’s only after Askarov will show something legit and sustainable on nhl level. Or other goalie prospect from the system.

Yeah, I should have elaborated on that more.

Askarov isn’t even on the NHL team for this year, so we could be several years away from when they potentially agree to sell of Saros.

If Lankinen does badly I guess it’s very possible they’d waive him and go to Askarov. And same thing if Lankinen is injured. But coming into this season the odds are low that we get a good look at Askarov at the NHL level.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Then you shouldn’t care if individual players voluntarily use it before one game, which is what happened for years and years before the NHL decided to shit it pants over the issue and ban it.

At no point were players forced to use this tape.

Many players were in fact very enthusiastic about showing support to people they know and care about by this little gesture and now they can’t because the NHL will not let them do it.

Players themselves planned what their teams did on Pride nights and now the NHL is preventing them from doing anything.

So, yes, this is the NHL completely shitting its pants, it’s f***ing cowardly and pathetic, and people have every right to criticize them for it.

It’s not like these criticisms will do any good, this is just adding to awful original pre-game auction jerseys decision, so they’re dead set on leaning in on being spineless cowards/ right wing assholes.

So if you like this move, congrats you and the NHL’s decision makers are simpatico. (The “you” here is rhetorical and not you specifically @SteveCangialosi123 . I just happened to respond to your post. I’m not yelling at you in particular here at all.)

Think they’ve gone too far with this but suggesting this is them being right wing is just really stupid. It’s about protecting their players.

 

[JrFischer54]

I believe Nashville will start to talk about trading Sara’s only after Askarov will show something legit and sustainable on nhl level. Or other goalie prospect from the system.

Buck 7 years at age 31 boooooooo
saros 7 years at age 30 yaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

 

[Bleedred]

Buck 7 years at age 31 boooooooo
saros 7 years at age 30 yaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

At that point I’m probably not interested in Saros, at least not as more than a couple of year rental. I haven’t even checked his contract status to see when he’s a UFA.

 

[Guadana]

Yeah, I should have elaborated on that more.

Askarov isn’t even on the NHL team for this year, so we could be several years away from when they potentially agree to sell of Saros.

If Lankinen does badly I guess it’s very possible they’d waive him and go to Askarov. And same thing if Lankinen is injured. But coming into this season the odds are low that we get a good look at Askarov at the NHL level.

Yap. And it’s not like it is a bad thing or strange thing. There were only 9 players from 2020 draft who played 40+ games last season. There is way too early for players from this draft. It works for Holtz too. And goalies are taking way more time now. I really liked Hart last season, he was really good overall, but he is 25 yo now and he had a lot of ups and down through his career and it’s not like we can fully agree on him as a solid nhl level starter. If Askarov will be nhl solid starter in his 23, it would be pretty great for him and even quite early. But he is 21 only now. So may be we should wait Saros on the trade market on the next year trade deadline.

Buck 7 years at age 31 boooooooo
saros 7 years at age 30 yaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Where I said I want to give him long term? Where I said I don’t? I talked about his potential status for a trade only.
For me he is interesting rental option.

 

[MartyOwns]

I don't think that there is any possibility of having a rational conversation with you on this topic is your starting point is that the NHL is "kowtowing to religious bigorty" and every player that opted out of wearing a pride jersey during warm-ups is a "religious bigot", "homophobe", racist" and or "feels not all humans should be treated and represented equally".

So, we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

Ready for the season to start.

yes lol, if you completely misinterpret what i said there’s little left to discuss.

nobody is telling players to suck a dick twice a year. pride nights are literally just the league telling a historically marginalized group that they are welcome to check out the sport because it’s awesome. the league has now effectively said that they are not welcome. f*** that

 

[My3Sons]

So what I thought, all players over 30 are going to turn to dust in a year.

This happens to most people. They hit 30 and by 32 they literally decay on their birthday. Some turn to a pile of dust and some become mummified or burst into flames. It’s horrifying and I am scared for when I turn 30. The few lucky enough to survive the transition have to feed on the blood of the living in an undead state. You older posters need to be wary.

 

[Guttersniped]

Think they’ve gone too far with this but suggesting this is them being right wing is just really stupid. It’s about protecting their players.

They’re protecting their brand.