Around the NHL 2023-2024

[STL fan in MN]

ya im glad charlie is not having to deal with this shitshow here tbh. hes a winner and does not need to put up with nonsense from the kyrous and krugs of the world.

i feel bad for binner and sunny having to deal with it though

If a 92 point Blues team = shitshow, what does that say about a 91 point Capitals team?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Both Joshua and Lindgren were offered contracts, both players declined stating that they wanted to test free agency, both players bet on themselves and won.

Lindgren was offered a 1-year deal from the Blues, can't recall if it was 1-way or not. He knew he was going to get more than 1 year from other teams, all 1-way.

Not a difficult choice. Good for him. Still no guarantee what he did elsewhere, he'd have done here like someone wants to beat the table and claim. Quit lamenting whether he's here or not, it's not changing anything.

It's why I always tell people to play the cards they have and make the best of that, don't try playing the cards they think they would have had or wish they had. One of those will get you farther along in life.

 

[PocketNines]

If people are feeling bad that a new destination had to wake up Joshua's game, recall that once upon a time the Chicago Blackhawks actually waived Bob Bassen and then we claimed him!

 

[PocketNines]

Oh man I am only on page 11 after starting at page 7 but the Avs GDT from yesterday is going to be next level ...

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, Mark Stone is back and ready for game 1

 

[STL fan in MN]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, Mark Stone is back and ready for game 1

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Generally speaking I don’t have any problems with the teams being able to activate players from LTIR right before the playoffs. Because those are the rules. But this is becoming ridiculous. Three consecutive years Stone has gone on LTIR. And three straight years they’ve been able to make a major acquisition because they were in LTIR, only for Stone to miraculously be ready for the playoffs.

It’s such a blatant violation of the spirit of the rule. But I’m sure the league will do absolutely nothing about it

 

[Xerloris]

he has more playoff goals than kyrou has the past 2 seasons

Who are you even talking about?

ya im glad charlie is not having to deal with this shitshow here tbh. hes a winner and does not need to put up with nonsense from the kyrous and krugs of the world.

i feel bad for binner and sunny having to deal with it though

Don't you have to win something before you can be regarded as a "winner"?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Generally speaking I don’t have any problems with the teams being able to activate players from LTIR right before the playoffs. Because those are the rules. But this is becoming ridiculous. Three consecutive years Stone has gone on LTIR. And three straight years they’ve been able to make a major acquisition because they were in LTIR, only for Stone to miraculously be ready for the playoffs.

It’s such a blatant violation of the spirit of the rule. But I’m sure the league will do absolutely nothing about it

Nitpick: he came back with 9 games left in 2022 and Vegas didn't make the playoffs.

 

[stl76]

Sounds like the sabres are hiring Lindy Ruff for another go round. Surprising, to say the least…

 

[Brian39]

I don't have a problem with what Vegas has done with LTIR the last few years.

Injuries cost them a playoff spot in 2021/22, so if they were intentionally sandbagging for cap gain then they massively screwed up and were very adequately punished.

For the last 2 years, I see guys with legitimate injuries. Stone looked like a 40 year old man to start the playoffs last year and is recovery timeline on the lacerated spleen this year is pretty well within the normal range form my limited medical knowledge. All in all, I very much view these situations as a player being willing to play through an injury he probably shouldn't in the playoffs rather than deciding to sit out when he should be playing in the regular season.

Every year, we see guys play through things in the playoffs that everyone agrees would be a valid reason to be on LTIR. The standard absolutely can not be that a guy has to be taken off LTIR if he is physically capable of playing in an NHL game. Matthew Tkachuk finished a game and then played another after breaking his sternum in the Cup Final. It would be ludicrous to prohibit that from being an LTIRable injury because a guy is physically capable of playing through it.

I genuinely don't know how to legislate when a guy is or isn't 'fit to play' better than the current standard which focuses on whether or not there truly is a medical issue impacting a guy's ability to play.

I think what we have seen from Vegas much closer to the intended purpose of LTIR than it is the exploitation of a loophole. I also don't see a super easy fix. The NHLPA will absolutely not support a rule where injured guys are forced back into the lineup early for cap purposes. Forcing teams to be 'cap compliant' in the playoffs would require a complete and total overhaul of how the salary cap is calculated that would probably have a bigger impact on teams banking cap space for deadline acquisitions than it would LTIR shenanigans.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Nitpick: he came back with 9 games left in 2022 and Vegas didn't make the playoffs.

True, but why did Stone return with a few games left in that season. My take is the original plan that season was to keep him on LTIR until the playoffs but once they dropped in the standings and were at risk of missing the playoffs (which ultimately happened), they scrambled to make moves to be able to take him off LTIR so he could help try to get them in the playoffs. Can I prove it? No, but Stone and Vegas have lost all shred of goodwill with me.

Generally speaking I don’t have any problems with the teams being able to activate players from LTIR right before the playoffs. Because those are the rules. But this is becoming ridiculous. Three consecutive years Stone has gone on LTIR. And three straight years they’ve been able to make a major acquisition because they were in LTIR, only for Stone to miraculously be ready for the playoffs.

It’s such a blatant violation of the spirit of the rule. But I’m sure the league will do absolutely nothing about it

Actually, if any player is on LTIR but is actually healthy enough to play, they are breaking the rules. That’s the part the NHL isn’t enforcing. That said, I can see why as how do you definitively determine a guy is recovered from something like a bruised spleen or concussion? The NHL created a big grey area based on the honor system here for themselves…

 

[stl76]

I think it’s important to mention that in a few interviews here, he mentioned how he really needed a reality check, he had a wake up moment, which is one of the biggest reasons for his incredible season.

It’s not like he could do it for the blues, but he went through a ton of growth, having a guy like tochett really helped.

Didn’t Tocchet basically call Joshua out for being out of shape physically?

EDIT:

Canucks’ Joshua using wake-up call from Tocchet as learning experience – Sportsnet.ca

Yeah this is what I was thinking about ^^^

 

[Ted Hoffman]

True, but why did Stone return with a few games left in that season. My take is the original plan that season was to keep him on LTIR until the playoffs but once they dropped in the standings and were at risk of missing the playoffs (which ultimately happened), they scrambled to make moves to be able to take him off LTIR so he could help try to get them in the playoffs. Can I prove it? No, but Stone and Vegas have lost all shred of goodwill with me.

That's exactly the point. You can take a guess as to what was going on, but you can't prove anything. Which, you should know that hypothesize all you want but what matters is what you can prove. By the same token, there was a decent argument that Vegas could have pulled him off LTIR early this season to make sure it locked down a playoff spot ... but, it didn't. Why not? Again, we're left with guessing and speculating without any proof.

Back to 2022: when Stone came off LTIR, Vegas was 2 points out. It had been out of a playoff spot as far back as March 22, so they flirted around with being in/out of the playoffs for 3 weeks before Stone came back. Even with Stone in for those last 9 games, they went 3-2-4 to miss and were eliminated on the 27th - game 81 - when they went to OT against Chicago in what would be their 3rd consecutive SO loss. If they were worried about making the playoffs, you'd think they would have brought Stone back a lot earlier.

That’s the part the NHL isn’t enforcing.

This is the entire point right here. If the NHL knows there's a problem, it's choosing not to enforce the rules that exist. That leaves everyone trying to create "solutions" to "fix" that problem that have all kinds of unintended consequences that they want to ignore because "we're fixing the problem, everyone!" and ignores that the real solution, the simplest solution, is for the league to do its job in the first place.

 

[Thallis]

True, but why did Stone return with a few games left in that season. My take is the original plan that season was to keep him on LTIR until the playoffs but once they dropped in the standings and were at risk of missing the playoffs (which ultimately happened), they scrambled to make moves to be able to take him off LTIR so he could help try to get them in the playoffs. Can I prove it? No, but Stone and Vegas have lost all shred of goodwill with me.


Actually, if any player is on LTIR but is actually healthy enough to play, they are breaking the rules. That’s the part the NHL isn’t enforcing. That said, I can see why as how do you definitively determine a guy is recovered from something like a bruised spleen or concussion? The NHL created a big grey area based on the honor system here for themselves…

This isn't what's happening though. The real issue is hockey's warrior culture that mythologizes guys playing through injury, so they take an unholy cocktail of pain killers for the playoffs and the doctors/franchises let them. It's not worth doing that to your body for regular season games, so they don't unless it's absolutely needed. Two seasons ago stone got back surgery immediately after the season; he delayed that so he could come back. Last season he was still injured and upset at guys targeting his back. The drug use is one of the worst kept secrets in the NHL and it's encouraged by all parties.

 

[Xerloris]

I don't have a problem with what Vegas has done with LTIR the last few years.

Injuries cost them a playoff spot in 2021/22, so if they were intentionally sandbagging for cap gain then they massively screwed up and were very adequately punished.

For the last 2 years, I see guys with legitimate injuries. Stone looked like a 40 year old man to start the playoffs last year and is recovery timeline on the lacerated spleen this year is pretty well within the normal range form my limited medical knowledge. All in all, I very much view these situations as a player being willing to play through an injury he probably shouldn't in the playoffs rather than deciding to sit out when he should be playing in the regular season.

Every year, we see guys play through things in the playoffs that everyone agrees would be a valid reason to be on LTIR. The standard absolutely can not be that a guy has to be taken off LTIR if he is physically capable of playing in an NHL game. Matthew Tkachuk finished a game and then played another after breaking his sternum in the Cup Final. It would be ludicrous to prohibit that from being an LTIRable injury because a guy is physically capable of playing through it.

I genuinely don't know how to legislate when a guy is or isn't 'fit to play' better than the current standard which focuses on whether or not there truly is a medical issue impacting a guy's ability to play.

I think what we have seen from Vegas much closer to the intended purpose of LTIR than it is the exploitation of a loophole. I also don't see a super easy fix. The NHLPA will absolutely not support a rule where injured guys are forced back into the lineup early for cap purposes. Forcing teams to be 'cap compliant' in the playoffs would require a complete and total overhaul of how the salary cap is calculated that would probably have a bigger impact on teams banking cap space for deadline acquisitions than it would LTIR shenanigans.

Ya, Stone just happens to get an injury every year that takes from the TDL till opening of the playoffs to heal. I don't think he's actually even been injured.

 

[Majorityof1]

Generally speaking I don’t have any problems with the teams being able to activate players from LTIR right before the playoffs. Because those are the rules. But this is becoming ridiculous. Three consecutive years Stone has gone on LTIR. And three straight years they’ve been able to make a major acquisition because they were in LTIR, only for Stone to miraculously be ready for the playoffs.

It’s such a blatant violation of the spirit of the rule. But I’m sure the league will do absolutely nothing about it

For those complaining about Vegas and LTIR, how do you fake a lacerated spleen? He has to be legitimately injured. The league's doctors have to approve it. I mean, maybe he times his recovery a little longer than it needs or he comes back a little earlier. But there needs to be a legit injury and bad enough the league approves him being on LTIR. I don't see how you could fake a lacerated spleen. Sounds painful as hell.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

For those complaining about Vegas and LTIR, how do you fake a lacerated spleen? He has to be legitimately injured. The league's doctors have to approve it. I mean, maybe he times his recovery a little longer than it needs or he comes back a little earlier. But there needs to be a legit injury and bad enough the league approves him being on LTIR. I don't see how you could fake a lacerated spleen. Sounds painful as hell.

I’m not questioning the legitimacy of the ruptured spleen. That’s something that could legitimately be life threatening in the right circumstances. And frankly I’m not even questioning that he’s had injuries that led to the need to put him on LTIR.

I find it plausible that this situation could happen every now and again. But happening three years on the trot for the same player? Sorry that’s just suspiciously convenient for the team to me. Again, not questioning that he’s actually been injured. I just don’t trust that the situation wasn’t manipulated to Vegas’ advantage.

 

[Brockon]

I’m not questioning the legitimacy of the ruptured spleen. That’s something that could legitimately be life threatening in the right circumstances. And frankly I’m not even questioning that he’s had injuries that led to the need to put him on LTIR.

I find it plausible that this situation could happen every now and again. But happening three years on the trot for the same player? Sorry that’s just suspiciously convenient for the team to me. Again, not questioning that he’s actually been injured. I just don’t trust that the situation wasn’t manipulated to Vegas’ advantage.

To the bolded, of course it was manipulated to Vegas' advantage - that's quite literally what a good GM does... Sees something within their power to do and capitalize on it.

Whether it's shrewd trading, maximizing cap space with paper moves to bank cap space for TDL acquisitions, utilizing LTIR to the fullest extent or contract negotiating. Its why an organization pays these guys the big bucks.

The Berglund trade exploiting the bungled NTC by Bergy's agent, bringing in ROR. McCrimmon taking teams behind the woodshed in the Vegas expansion draft. Tampa's various LTIR machinations over the past few years etc...

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Vegas "cheats"

So fitting for that shitty town in the desert

 

[Blueston]

I’m not questioning the legitimacy of the ruptured spleen. That’s something that could legitimately be life threatening in the right circumstances. And frankly I’m not even questioning that he’s had injuries that led to the need to put him on LTIR.

I find it plausible that this situation could happen every now and again. But happening three years on the trot for the same player? Sorry that’s just suspiciously convenient for the team to me. Again, not questioning that he’s actually been injured. I just don’t trust that the situation wasn’t manipulated to Vegas’ advantage.

Vegas is clearly using the rules in place to their advantage, but I've yet to see any actual evidence they are violating the rules. As someone else said, it seems far more likely that Stone is again racing back for playoffs than he wasn't actually hurt. They knew he would be out until playoffs so they spent his money elsewhere, but that is how the rules were meant to be used.

Personally, I'd like to see requirement that teams must dress cap compliant team each game of the playoffs (no cap for your roster, just for who you dress) but that is something that will have to be collectively bargained. I don't see league views this as major problem but if enough people clamor for change, league will go along if players want it changed but I don't see Bettman pushing for change from something that most owners don't have problem with.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Shatty on the PK in a playoff game is wild lol

 

[TheDizee]

Shatty on the PK in a playoff game is wild lol

hes such a liability, even on their 3rd pairing. its almost as sad as watching Krug

 

[STL fan in MN]

For those complaining about Vegas and LTIR, how do you fake a lacerated spleen? He has to be legitimately injured. The league's doctors have to approve it. I mean, maybe he times his recovery a little longer than it needs or he comes back a little earlier. But there needs to be a legit injury and bad enough the league approves him being on LTIR. I don't see how you could fake a lacerated spleen. Sounds painful as hell.

This is the part that if true, absolutely violates the current rule as written. As Blueston correctly points out though, there’s no definitive proof out there (at least not available to us) but I mean come on, it’s fishy as heck.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

And Stone scores 1.5 minutes in lmao