OT: Around the NHL 2021-22: Broken Culture Edition

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah the pre-05 lockout pads were getting pretty out of hand.

I remember Garth Snow's massive shoulder pads and five hole flap or whatever it was. Insane.

They all said that the inevitable cut-down would lead to a huge increase in injuries. Still waiting to see that pan out.

Someone referred to Snow's leg pads as surfboards and I cannot ever get that analogy out of my brain

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Sources: NHL unveils enhanced COVID protocols

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol at the league's fans looking around at each other in shock like "I just don't understand how McDrai stopped scoring at a historic rate! Particularly while playing for kind of a shitberg team! We totally expected them to score ~200 points each or whatever!"

It's almost like they don't actually walk on water and a ton of their points were coming on the powerplay.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

lol at the league's fans looking around at each other in shock like "I just don't understand how McDrai stopped scoring at a historic rate! Particularly while playing for kind of a shitberg team! We totally expected them to score ~200 points each or whatever!"

It's almost like they don't actually walk on water and a ton of their points were coming on the powerplay.

Draisaitl even laughed and basically told a reporter off when they mentioned he was on pace for like 80+ goals. He said something to the effect of "You realize that's next to impossible, right? I'm not going to keep scoring a goal a game, don't be dumb."

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This narrative that McDavid just isn't the best in the league (he is) but SO SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of everyone has irritated the shit out of me for years.

And no not just because I'm a Penguins fan.

 

[Al Smith]

Milan Hejduk was a near 100pt guy when Mario put up huge numbers at 38. Bertuzzi too. Some dude named Glen Murray put up 90+. Let's not act like 2002 hockey was a bunch of 1-0 games.

Well . . . no one's acting like that, but fess up: Are you a DPE denier????

Guy was a total athletic freak and in his prime today would dominate like he did in his prime, albeit probably not with the same gaudy absolute numbers. There aren't too many Darren Pangs and his ilk in goal today.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well . . . no one's acting like that, but fess up: Are you a DPE denier????

Guy was a total athletic freak and in his prime today would dominate like he did in his prime, albeit probably not with the same gaudy absolute numbers. There aren't too many Darren Pangs and his ilk in goal today.

Fess up?

The game's sucked for a long periods of time, across multiple eras. Yeah, Lemaire and his Devils almost killed the entire thing with their Dead Puck garbage, and we're seeing it come back little by little in recent years. But Mario was absolutely not an athletic freak like today's athletes. He was big, rangey, strong, and very skilled. He would not put up insane numbers nowadays with how he treated his body and his training back in the 80s and 90s. You're talking from pure nostalgia, and emotional connection.

 

[Al Smith]

I play net, so it's always cool to talk about the position!

I never really believed that the "goalie is the best skater on the team". Do you really think that Grant Fuhr was a better skater than Wayne or Kurri? Was Bill Ranford a better skater than Ray Borque?

Equipment played a HUGE role in this too. I used to have a pair of the old school Arters Irbe pads. They had zero above the knee protection, so going down on your knees was done only with the pads facing down on the ice vs the pads going vertical like you see now. I still do the paddle down technique occasionally because it's been very hard to eliminate that muscle memory in certain situations.

When goalie manufacturers came out with the advanced leg pads they had the knee protection PLUS the landing gear so you could butterfly more easily and the pads went vertical so you could cover more along the ice.

So while shooters got more whippy sticks, the goalies got better protection and got to cover more net. Hell even the goalie masks have gotten tremendously better so goalies don't flinch anymore.

Goalies being the "best skaters" was just, as I said, what people said to say something, perhaps thinking their skating in tight spaces was very good, as opposed to their speed up the ice. But since we never saw a goalie skating without his pads, it's hard to tell. However, I'm guessing that Paul Coffey would have lapped Tom Barrasso or Ken Wregget in pretty short order.

So - what do you think - goaltending today is clearly better than it used to be Is the difference in goalies today size, technique/positioning, equipment, athleticism, combination? They're clearly bigger, but I don't know if they're more athletic or if they need to be because the technique is so different.

 

[Al Smith]

Fess up?

The game's sucked for a long periods of time, across multiple eras. Yeah, Lemaire and his Devils almost killed the entire thing with their Dead Puck garbage, and we're seeing it come back little by little in recent years. But Mario was absolutely not an athletic freak like today's athletes. He was big, rangey, strong, and very skilled. He would not put up insane numbers nowadays with how he treated his body and his training back in the 80s and 90s. You're talking from pure nostalgia, and emotional connection.

I've heard about you DPE deniers - led mostly by former and current NHL refs.

I'm assuming if he competed in today's world, he wouldn't be smoking between periods and would be following modern training regimens, maybe even better than Jay Caufield's program. I think he's just the rare dude you can plug into a different era and he'd be just as dominant. And my opinions are only based on fact and reason - and I'll berate everyone else until I convince myself they agree with me.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've heard about you DPE deniers - led mostly by former and current NHL refs.

I'm assuming if he competed in today's world, he wouldn't be smoking between periods and would be following modern training regimens, maybe even better than Jay Caufield's program. I think he's just the rare dude you can plug into a different era and he'd be just as dominant. And my opinions are only based on fact and reason - and I'll berate everyone else until I convince myself they agree with me.

You're being a weirdo. I flat out admitted and agreed with you on the DPE shit. I grew up in the NJ watching the Devils ruin the game nightly. This whole thing reads like you've developed some weird parasocial, "Mario's my hero" relationship with an athlete (and pretty shitty person based on some shit he's been involved with off the ice). Big yikes.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So long as Mario was willing to play ball re: modern standards of fitness and conditioning I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be clowning other teams.

But I'm a huge, huge Mario fanboy so *shrugs*

 

[Al Smith]

You're being a weirdo. I flat out admitted and agreed with you on the DPE shit. I grew up in the NJ watching the Devils ruin the game nightly. This whole thing reads like you've developed some weird parasocial, "Mario's my hero" relationship with an athlete (and pretty shitty person based on some shit he's been involved with off the ice). Big yikes.

None of the above; mainly just screwing around on a hockey message board instead of focusing on real work.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Mario had size/strength and a shot that allowed him to put the puck anywhere he wanted to if given a look. Wayne had the hockey IQ and the fact that he actually took care of his body and training in an era where guys would fire down beers and smoke between periods, would eat like shit, and generally looked like some kinda caricature of an overweight plumber or mechanic.

I don't think they'd put up the numbers we see from this era's best if they were transported here, but I think this era's best would absolutely shitcan the 80s and 90s every bit as much as that era's greats did, if not better. Hell, I think Geno at his absolute best was a better version of what everyone remembers Mario as.

I know, I know. Hot take, sacrilege, etc. Don't bully the sports idols.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I actually don't think that's SUCH an out-there take. I don't agree with "better" but frankly when you start ticking off some factors like equipment, era, conditioning, diet, goaltending, and especially defensemen it's at least something to think about.

 

[Tender Rip]

Chicago gets 3 goals in 34 seconds against the Caps to take a 3-1 lead. You hate to see it.

 

[66-30-33]

Chicago gets 3 goals in 34 seconds against the Caps to take a 3-1 lead. You hate to see it.

5-4 OT final for Hawks. Ovy ties PPG record and takes the artross lead.

 

[Hockeygod66]

5-4 OT final for Hawks. Ovy ties PPG record and takes the artross lead.

Hes having an amazing year. Hopefully hes wiped out when the playoffs start.

 

[Andy99]

5-4 OT final for Hawks. Ovy ties PPG record and takes the artross lead.

Caps are the kings of the loser point…awful…how other teams keep letting them get to OT is shameful…

 

[66-30-33]

Caps are the kings of the loser point…awful…how other teams keep letting them get to OT is shameful…

We are only 2 losses behind.

 

[caps4cup]

Caps are the kings of the loser point…awful…how other teams keep letting them get to OT is shameful…

Well they do also have the best regulation W% in the NHL. Feeling like another 2nd round Caps/Pens matchup this year.

 

[TNT87]

Sheary was the one that tied it up too with 3 seconds left.

 

[66-30-33]

Well they do also have the best regulation W% in the NHL. Feeling like another 2nd round Caps/Pens matchup this year.

Pens gotta make it out of the 1st round first LOL!

 

[Andy99]

Well they do also have the best regulation W% in the NHL. Feeling like another 2nd round Caps/Pens matchup this year.

if the Pens win a first round matchup again in the Sid era, I’ll be shocked lol

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Milan Hejduk was a near 100pt guy when Mario put up huge numbers at 38. Bertuzzi too. Some dude named Glen Murray put up 90+. Let's not act like 2002 hockey was a bunch of 1-0 games.

Hejduk was playing on a line with one of the best passers in the game and the Art Ross winner that year, on top of being a very good player in his own right. Bertuzzi also played with Naslund that year, Murray played with Thornton....seeing a trend here? When Lemieux had Kovalev on his line he was averaging 2 points per game a third of the way into the season. He finished the season playing with Guillaume Lefebvre (6 points in 12 games, the only points he'd ever score in the NHL, his other 27 games he would go scoreless) and Eric Meloche (5 goals and 6 points in 13 games), both of whom weren't even top 6 players in the AHL, let alone the NHL.

How anybody could watch Lemieux play and say that Crosby or Malkin were just as good is beyond me, and that is certainly no knock to Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Goalies being the "best skaters" was just, as I said, what people said to say something, perhaps thinking their skating in tight spaces was very good, as opposed to their speed up the ice. But since we never saw a goalie skating without his pads, it's hard to tell. However, I'm guessing that Paul Coffey would have lapped Tom Barrasso or Ken Wregget in pretty short order.

So - what do you think - goaltending today is clearly better than it used to be Is the difference in goalies today size, technique/positioning, equipment, athleticism, combination? They're clearly bigger, but I don't know if they're more athletic or if they need to be because the technique is so different.

I would say it's all those that you mentioned:

Size- it's obvious that people today are taller than our predecessors. If you follow the NFL, in the 70's/80's if you had a 300lb lineman that was rare. Now I don't think you can find many who are under that. NHL scouts won't even look at goalies if they are under 6 foot. My nephew also plays goalie. He's not a superstar, but he's solid..currently playing for a Jr team in SC. When he was 16 my brother got a call from a scout and asked how tall he was and he said 5'10. They talked for 45 more seconds and hung up. CDS looks absolutely tiny. The bigger guys are now being put in net.
Technique/positioning - before Roy arrived on scene the butterfly was looked at weirdly, because it basically was "flop around and get in front of the puck" before then. Belfour took off and ran with it before it became the only mainstream technique. That's why a guy like Broduer was so good, because he was different than what was going on- he was a hybrid guy and crossed shooters up. Meanwhile, while all this was going on, in Europe they were teaching something new: V-H and reverse V-H. In the early 2000's you had a bunch of Euro goalies have a ton of success with this new style
Equipment- I mentioned this previously. Having the "landing gear" on the pads saved goalies' knees and allowed them to basically eliminate the bottom of the ice if they were tall enough
Athleticism - Related to the above, but hockey in general has produced a bunch of kids who know how to skate. If you could magically line up a player who is in the NCAA and a dman from the 80's their skating wouldn't even be in the same stratosphere. Mario and Wayne straight up trounced these guys night in and night out. They couldn't do that as easily in today's game.

Appreciate the conversation...the history of the position is something I love to talk about!