Around the NHL 2020-21

[Legionnaire11]

Trading for him and buying him out would have basically the same affect on the cap but then you'd also be paying real money and giving up and asset.

Depends on when it happens. It would only make sense to do that in the final two seasons, otherwise it is a wash. Best case obviously is still LTIR or just playing out the contract.

 

[Armourboy]

Weber wil either retire in Montreal or go on LTIR in Montreal. Him being here doesn't change anything for us.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Weber wil either retire in Montreal or go on LTIR in Montreal. Him being here doesn't change anything for us.

Only exception is if he gets traded here and plays a season or two before retiring, which would reduce the total recapture penalty.

 

[Armourboy]

Only exception is if he gets traded here and plays a season or two before retiring, which would reduce the total recapture penalty.

Which I don't really see happening.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Weber wil either retire in Montreal or go on LTIR in Montreal. Him being here doesn't change anything for us.

it does depending on the timing.

If Weber retires in the final season, we would face a $24M penalty which would be spread out over 3 seasons with the spare change in a fourth. However, if we traded for him and bought him out, we face only a one year cap hit. Similar situation two years before the contract ends, in which we would buy him out and only have two seasons of cap hit from it compared to three. Anything before that and it doesn't matter.

And of course it would depend on the asking price from Montreal. I don't think it would cost much either. I know MTL fans have this fantasy where they bend us over, but the benefit to acquiring him is so low after the penalty change, that anything more than a mid-round pick or two would not be worth it. We're not getting any cash advantage, only protecting $7.2M on our cap for one or two seasons, hardly worth what their fans think it's worth.

 

[Armourboy]

it does depending on the timing.

If Weber retires in the final season, we would face a $24M penalty which would be spread out over 3 seasons with the spare change in a fourth. However, if we traded for him and bought him out, we face only a one year cap hit. Similar situation two years before the contract ends, in which we would buy him out and only have two seasons of cap hit from it compared to three. Anything before that and it doesn't matter.

And of course it would depend on the asking price from Montreal. I don't think it would cost much either. I know MTL fans have this fantasy where they bend us over, but the benefit to acquiring him is so low after the penalty change, that anything more than a mid-round pick or two would not be worth it. We're not getting any cash advantage, only protecting $7.2M on our cap for one or two seasons, hardly worth what their fans think it's worth.

I still think Poile knows something we don't. I mean he's already been on record saying it's not something he's concerned about.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I still think Poile knows something we don't. I mean he's already been on record saying it's not something he's concerned about.

Well yeah, he said that Bettman told him it would be treated like a trade since the contract was signed by Philly and that the Preds don't have to worry about it. But after all this time and one radio interview with Poile being the only source on that, it's definitely concerning. There's been so much speculation across NHL media over the years, why hasn't Bettman ever just spoken up and easily shut down all that? Why hasn't Poile ever mentioned it again when he's been questioned about this situation? Why change the rule at all if there was nothing to worry about?

I'm going to operate under the assumption of the worst case scenario in which Weber retires in the final season with Montreal and the Preds take the full $7.857 penalty for three seasons. Any relief from that is just a bonus, but until it's put out there definitively, you assume the worst.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I still think Poile knows something we don't. I mean he's already been on record saying it's not something he's concerned about.

Agreed. Although I understand how an outside onlooker could come in and just say "well, what's he supposed to say, that he's really worried, so that jacks up the price Montreal tries to extract from him?" etc etc.

But per all the other threads on this topic, I just feel like it would be monumentally "unjust" for the Preds to be charged on this. From the predatory offersheet, to our franchise circumstances at the time, to our subsequent status as a team that was always further below the Cap than any "benefit" accrued from Philly's structuring of that contract, to the retroactive nature in which the penalty was instituted... it would just really be a miscarriage of any rational sense of justice to penalize us for that contract.

 

[Armourboy]

Well yeah, he said that Bettman told him it would be treated like a trade since the contract was signed by Philly and that the Preds don't have to worry about it. But after all this time and one radio interview with Poile being the only source on that, it's definitely concerning. There's been so much speculation across NHL media over the years, why hasn't Bettman ever just spoken up and easily shut down all that? Why hasn't Poile ever mentioned it again when he's been questioned about this situation? Why change the rule at all if there was nothing to worry about?

I'm going to operate under the assumption of the worst case scenario in which Weber retires in the final season with Montreal and the Preds take the full $7.857 penalty for three seasons. Any relief from that is just a bonus, but until it's put out there definitively, you assume the worst.

Well Poile generally doesn't rehash things. If you listen to him you can hear his voice change when he has too. Betteman has no reason to mess with it tbh, he can deal with it at the appropriate time. Could also be he's wating to see if it more or less fixes itself. It's gotten less destructive over the years on its own.

 

[jumb0]

But per all the other threads on this topic, I just feel like it would be monumentally "unjust" for the Preds to be charged on this. From the predatory offersheet, to our franchise circumstances at the time, to our subsequent status as a team that was always further below the Cap than any "benefit" accrued from Philly's structuring of that contract, to the retroactive nature in which the penalty was instituted... it would just really be a miscarriage of any rational sense of justice to penalize us for that contract.

This all day.

If I'm driving down Old Hickory today and the speed limit is 45, but tomorrow it's lowered to 35 you cannot go back and give me a ticket because the rules are different now.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think they should just charge any recapture to Philly. Maybe we can get an extra 1st thrown in when we trade Ellis to them.

 

[herzausstein]

This all day.

If I'm driving down Old Hickory today and the speed limit is 45, but tomorrow it's lowered to 35 you cannot go back and give me a ticket because the rules are different now.

I guess i never really understood how the league could really go through it with any of the teams. The league had to Ok the contracts to begin with. The league previously rejected a 17 year deal with Kovalchuk b/c it was cap circumvention. The league could've rejected these deals but instead let them go on and then decided to go back and punish teams for doing something that the league had previously given their consent to. It just never sat well with me.

 

[LCPreds]

I don’t even see a reason to worry about the recapture. If he retires early the Preds will either get hammered or they won’t. I’m more concerned with whether we can ice a competitive squad next season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Suter and Parise Cap Recapture is pretty similar to Weber's. A teensy bit lower. But almost $20M each. Maybe Minnesota was yanking that potentially apocalyptic scenario out of their hands as much as anything. If they both decided to retire in the last year and forego their $1M salary, that was going to be a $40M hit, which would have had to be spread out over... well quite a while.

And Minnesota engineered those contracts entirely themselves, so they can't have any Get Out Of Jail Free card like we hope that we do.

Maybe just taking those huge buyout dings now is also part of their way of avoiding that whole Cap recapture scenario. Or at least, taking control of it themselves instead of leaving it at the whim of declining hockey players.

 

[jumb0]

Suter and Parise Cap Recapture is pretty similar to Weber's. A teensy bit lower. But almost $20M each. Maybe Minnesota was yanking that potentially apocalyptic scenario out of their hands as much as anything. If they both decided to retire in the last year and forego their $1M salary, that was going to be a $40M hit, which would have had to be spread out over... well quite a while.

And Minnesota engineered those contracts entirely themselves, so they can't have any Get Out Of Jail Free card like we hope that we do.

Maybe just taking those huge buyout dings now is also part of their way of avoiding that whole Cap recapture scenario. Or at least, taking control of it themselves instead of leaving it at the whim of declining hockey players.

I just read the "behind the scenes" article on The Athletic and I don't understand the move any more now than before.

Per Bill Guerin "it wasn't because of the expansion draft" and "it's not to free up money for Kaprizov and Fiala". He also states that they both have game left in them and this will give them the opportunity to help another team.

 

[herzausstein]

I just read the "behind the scenes" article on The Athletic and I don't understand the move any more now than before.

Per Bill Guerin "it wasn't because of the expansion draft" and "it's not to free up money for Kaprizov and Fiala". He also states that they both have game left in them and this will give them the opportunity to help another team.

maybe he wanted to take them away from the coach so the coach would be forced to ice young players? IDK feels like i'm stretchin a bit on that one

 

[jumb0]

maybe he wanted to take them away from the coach so the coach would be forced to ice young players? IDK feels like i'm stretchin a bit on that one

He did mention opening up some opportunities for other guys but it was just a weird interview. When asked about money going to Kap/Fiala his answer is literally "nuh-uh"

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

One thing's for sure, whatever the motivations were, it was going to be discussed to death at many levels in that organization. It was not just some random thing Guerin woke up and decided to do with a back of the envelope calculation. That's tens of millions of dollars and franchise-defining for the next 4 years. That's something that would have the whole ownership/board/business people looped into, not just a hockey ops decision.

 

[jumb0]

One thing's for sure, whatever the motivations were, it was going to be discussed to death at many levels in that organization. It was not just some random thing Guerin woke up and decided to do with a back of the envelope calculation. That's tens of millions of dollars and franchise-defining for the next 4 years. That's something that would have the whole ownership/board/business people looped into, not just a hockey ops decision.

He said they had been discussing it for 6-8 months

 

[Viqsi]

It gets better, saw a quote from Suter saying Parise found out first and Suter was with him consoling him, even joked about having a missed call from Guerin... when his phone rang again lol

OMG I needed that laugh badly.

Confirmed in The Athletic, btw:
Wild's stunning Zach Parise and Ryan Suter buyouts could create salary-cap repercussions for years

Bill Guerin called Ryan Suter first, and it went to voicemail.

So, the Wild general manager called Zach Parise, naturally in the middle of a Tuesday morning workout, next.

“I was caught off guard,” the now-former face of the Wild franchise said. “I had a feeling something was gonna happen, but when it does happen, you’re still shocked.”

Parise actually had a pleasant conversation with Guerin.

Parise, the all-time leading goal scorer among Minnesotans in NHL history, hung up and immediately called his longtime comrade in arms, Suter, to inform his 2012 free-agent tag-team partner and fellow nine-year alternate captain that the Wild were buying out the final four years of his contract.

Suter tried to lift Parise’s spirits. He even told him that funny enough he himself had a missed call from Guerin.

That’s when Guerin suddenly called again. The veteran defenseman answered and was blindsided with the exact same news that he, too, was being bought out of the final four years of his contract.

That call with Guerin wasn’t as lengthy … or as friendly.

Suter, never, ever envisioning that the Wild would actually buy out both contracts at the same time, hung up on the GM.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

OMG I needed that laugh badly.

Confirmed in The Athletic, btw:
Wild's stunning Zach Parise and Ryan Suter buyouts could create salary-cap repercussions for years

It's kind of sad that Suter is going to get another pretty nice contract from somebody, probably. And they only had 6+2+1+1 = $10M coming to them in the next 4 years anyway. So getting 2/3rds of that, plus whatever he now signs for, is very likely going to give him more net $$$ than he was already slated to get.

 

[OldFan]

Well Poile generally doesn't rehash things. If you listen to him you can hear his voice change when he has too. Betteman has no reason to mess with it tbh, he can deal with it at the appropriate time. Could also be he's wating to see if it more or less fixes itself. It's gotten less destructive over the years on its own.

You know, talking about something that hasn’t happened, may possibly happen, may not happen

 

[Armourboy]

I don't like Suter at all but frankly I probably would have hung up on him too. The minute you say you are buying me out I no longer work for you so I'm no longer required to listen to your drivel.

 

[OldFan]

Well Poile generally doesn't rehash things. If you listen to him you can hear his voice change when he has too. Betteman has no reason to mess with it tbh, he can deal with it at the appropriate time. Could also be he's wating to see if it more or less fixes itself. It's gotten less destructive over the years on its own.[/QUOTE

 

[NoNecksCurse]

OMG I needed that laugh badly.

Confirmed in The Athletic, btw:
Wild's stunning Zach Parise and Ryan Suter buyouts could create salary-cap repercussions for years

i love it