As someone who watches a lot of hawks games, I ain't touching that with a ten foot pole even if it rids us of Abby. Seabrook is toast, almost as toast as Abby. Dude might get press boxed a bit this year. Give me Abby at 4.25x4 over Seabrook at 6.9x5.
Around the NHL 2019-2020 | Offseason Edition
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Chicago is well aware, if you don't recall they acquired Maata and deHaan this off-season to go with Keith and Gustafsson to round out their top 4.
Man, what happened to have him so gassed at 34? Keith is still going strong and several years older.
He can still stretch the ice with his pass and still has a good shot, but he lost a step his game couldn't afford to lose.
The Zetterberg Era
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I would say that Keith has declined as well. It isn't the cliff that happened to Seabrook, but Norris caliber Keith and that team is in the postseason last year. Still a quality player, not one of the first 15 dman I am naming as best. I could see Keith rebounding to outright elite. The time off has probably been good for him big picture wise in terms of giving his body a little more rest.
Luckily Keith had somewhat of a "bounce-back" year last season that gives me hope that he can. He looked pretty pedestrian a couple years ago.
Yikes.... hope isn't the right word.
Yikes.... hope isn't the right word.
obey86
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- Jun 9, 2009
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And in case you didn't notice, the Blackhawks have missed the playoffs and been a bottom tier team two seasons in a row now, and the major reason for that is the decline of their blue line and still having to depend on a player like Seabrook to play 19 min a game.
Your first sentence said "I'd take a 2nd pairing defender (assumingly Seabrook) over Abby" and then your last sentence said "Don't confuse this statement for me thinking swapping those deals is a good idea" - definitely somewhat conflicting ideas, and you never outright said you necessarily wouldn't swap deals, just that we shouldn't assume your previous statement necessarily mean it's a good idea. Just wanted some clarification because it wasn't quite clear when reading that paragraph as one, no need to be a dick about it with a snarky quote title.
Aw, you noticed. And here I was worried the effort would be lost.
Hammettf2b
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Leafs trading for Clarkson. They must be getting desperate making moves like that in order to sign Marner.
What a strange world we live in where trading for dead contracts might actually help you with cap space?
MBH
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His skating ability is diminishing and it affects his game a lot. I wouldn't want to spend 2.5 million extra dollars per season and 6.8 an extra season for his superior hockey ability over Abby.
MBH
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I disagree. But regardless, at the end of the day, Seabrook is being paid the contract he earned for helping Chicago win 3 cups. Abdelkader is being paid a contract he never earned, for helping Detroit do nothing.
Great. I don't care what got him overpaid, I don't want a 7 million dollar bottom pair D.
He's a lesser player than Danny Dekeyser at this point.
MBH
Players Play
One, you can't look at these contracts in a vacuum. Seabrook earned his. Abdelkader didn't.
Two, Abdelkader is literally one of the worst regular playing forwards in the NHL. 2nd worst in goals/60. 6th worst in points/60. (out of 235 NHL forwards with 10 minutes a night at 5 on 5.)
His CF% is only bottom 30.
Three, if Danny Dekeyser can do what he did last year - but do it over 75-82 games - he's easily worth his salary.
That has nothing to do with Seabrook's current state. I'd rather pay Abby 4.25 for 4 years than Seabrook 6.88 for 5.
I'd be the first one to tell you about Dekeyser's season, but he's a middle pair D man when playing at that level. Seabrook is a bottom pair D-man that could see press box time as soon as this season. You are thinking of 3 cup Seabrook, he ain't it.
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MBH
Players Play
One, Seabrook can easily play 20 minutes a night and could produce close to 40 points were he still playing big powerplay minutes.
Two, I'd rather overpay a 3-time cup winning, fairly effective defenseman than an effective fourth liner, one of the 10 worst forwards in the game, a guy who never won anything and who is most know for, in clutch situations, stupid penalties.
No, he can't. I watch this guy play hockey regularly and in his 78 games averaging 19 mins a night (because he can't keep up with the pace of play anymore - 15:21 at even strength - 6th on D for Hawks that played 40 games) and 1:38 average PP time he had 28 points with 10 on the PP - this on a team that scored the 8th most goals in the league. His minutes have diminished over the past 2 years and the Hawks haven't exactly been running out the best blue line after Keith and Gustafsson. There's a reason the Hawks went out and got 2 established players in the league even though they have Keith/Gustafsson/and a slew of D prospects (not to mention Connor Murphy for 3 more years).
I'm not saying Abby is good, but Seabrook at that term and cap hit is less palatable. The guy won't be able to keep up for 5 years and his only contribution will be "I won cups on my old team" in practice while he sits in the presser for 7 million.
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MBH
Players Play
Abdelkader isn't simply not good.
He's terrible. He's bottom 6 in the NHL. The ENTIRE NHL.
Seabrook's 5 on 5 stats.
14-15 4-11-15
15-16 6-9-15
16-17 1-18-19
17-18 4-11-15
18-19 3-12-15
What's changed is his PP numbers.
14-15 - 4-11-15
15-16 - 6-9-25
16-17 - 2-12-14
17-18 - 2-6-8
18-19 - 2-8-10
If you were to give him the 232 minutes he got in 15-16, instead of the 127 minutes he got last year, you'd see 19 points instead of 10 points on the powerplay.
And what do Seabrook's stats look like then?
Something like 7-30-37.
The bottom line is that Seabrook's 5 on 5 production (.78) is about what it's been in six of the last seven years. He's playing fewer minutes, so his points are down.
On the PP, his points/60 were 4.72 last year. third highest of his career.
But his minutes are about 60 percent of what they once were.
Compare that to Keith. 1.59 points per 60 on the PP. Easily the worst of his career.
Keith's 5 on 5 production did jump back up to 1.29/60. But Keith also gets a lot more 5 on 5 offensive zone starts.
Keith was also WAY more likely to play with Toews, Kane or Debrincat.
Okay give him those minutes again and he'll produce, I don't know why the hawks didn't think of that.
I'm not going to ever think he's worth 7 million over the next 5 years. No matter what you say. I watch him play hockey. I'd rather have the contract that runs out sooner and is less expensive. Abby could be scratched every day until the deal is done and I'd rather keep him.
I'm not going to ever think he's worth 7 million over the next 5 years. No matter what you say. I watch him play hockey. I'd rather have the contract that runs out sooner and is less expensive. Abby could be scratched every day until the deal is done and I'd rather keep him.
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deca guard
Registered User
good read from an old james neal article .
What You Don't Know About: Being a Sniper | By James Neal
What You Don't Know About: Being a Sniper | By James Neal
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I can understand how some here aren’t big fans of DD, but overall he’s been 1 of our better Dmen these past few seasons...Yeah - he’s a guy playing more minutes in Detroit than what he should, but even then - on just about every team in the NHL DD would slot in anywhere from #4 to #6 on the depth chart.
MBH
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I watch lots of Hawks games. I also look at data.
Seabrook is still a solid hockey player.
MBH
Players Play
Last year, Dekeyser at 5on5
18:09/game - career high
1.08 points/60 - career high
His CF% was only 48.33 - which isn't bad for Detroit.
His GoalsFor/60 were a career best 2.73.
His goalsagainst/60 were 2.29 (great numbers on this team).
His GF% was 54.43.
He managed this despite a career low offensive zone starts and a career high defensive zone starts.
Let's put these numbers in context
Dekeyser's 1.08 points/60 -- better than 4 out of Lidstrom's 5 last years.
His GF of 54.43 matches 2 of Lidstrom's 5 final seasons.
Dekeyser's play would have been just fine on the top 4 of those late 2000s, early 2010s defenses.
But here's the thing. Dekeyser needs to show us which Dekeyser is real. Because after two solid seasons to start his career, Dekeyser took a major step back for three years.
His production died. His defense died.
He made some gains, defensively, in 2017-18 after a brutal 16-17 - a year he didn't look like he belonged in the NHL
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