Around the NHL 20-21 pt. 2: the season ends

[Jim Bob]

Continued from Around the NHL 20-21 pt. 1: the season begins



Section V hockey representing!

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[SundherDome]

Section V hockey representing!

We should have drafted him

 

[Jim Bob]

Bobby Ryan likely done for season; Gusev on unconditional waivers

 

[sabresEH]

BC Hockey League has given notice it wants to leave the CJHL and go it alone - BCHL

Wasn’t sure where to put this. And I’m sure many won’t care. But this move by the BCHL could be game changing for JR hockey. Not too sure yet what this all entails, but at the moment, potentially the BCHL could pay players to play there if they no longer are apart of the CJHL and their rules and regulations.

My first thought is there has to be something, some kind of law, by-law, whatever the f***, I’m no smart guy, that they can’t be paying kids stupid money to go play there. But, I’m no smart guy and have no idea. But this feels like it could potentially change the landscape

 

[Gras]

BC Hockey League has given notice it wants to leave the CJHL and go it alone - BCHL

Wasn’t sure where to put this. And I’m sure many won’t care. But this move by the BCHL could be game changing for JR hockey. Not too sure yet what this all entails, but at the moment, potentially the BCHL could pay players to play there if they no longer are apart of the CJHL and their rules and regulations.

My first thought is there has to be something, some kind of law, by-law, whatever the f***, I’m no smart guy, that they can’t be paying kids stupid money to go play there. But, I’m no smart guy and have no idea. But this feels like it could potentially change the landscape

Why shouldn't kids be paid, its just a job like anything else.

 

[sabresEH]

Why shouldn't kids be paid, its just a job like anything else.

Absolutely. It just surprises me this hasn’t happened before unless there is something that wouldn’t allow it. But I agree, if they’re out of school they should get their payday. I’d hate to see kids skip out of an education to go get a payday before graduating high school.

 

[Gras]

Absolutely. It just surprises me this hasn’t happened before unless there is something that wouldn’t allow it. But I agree, if they’re out of school they should get their payday. I’d hate to see kids skip out of an education to go get a payday before graduating high school.

Does the CJHL monetize the kids in the same way the NCAA does, there are also education options, its not like a kid cant get a HS Diploma while playing Jr Hockey.

 

[sabresEH]

Does the CJHL monetize the kids in the same way the NCAA does, there are also education options, its not like a kid cant get a HS Diploma while playing Jr Hockey.

Absolutely the kid can still get an education while playing. But I'm sure if the kid is making a good salary his attendance will be spotty at best. I would imagine if the BCHL can pay the kids, it would cancel NCAA eligibility, so there's no incentive to get an education. I could say some more things on the matter, I'll PM you later, but I only have my phone and the page consistently crashes if I don't get my message in fast enough.

 

[Buffaloed]

BC Hockey League has given notice it wants to leave the CJHL and go it alone - BCHL

Wasn’t sure where to put this. And I’m sure many won’t care. But this move by the BCHL could be game changing for JR hockey. Not too sure yet what this all entails, but at the moment, potentially the BCHL could pay players to play there if they no longer are apart of the CJHL and their rules and regulations.

My first thought is there has to be something, some kind of law, by-law, whatever the f***, I’m no smart guy, that they can’t be paying kids stupid money to go play there. But, I’m no smart guy and have no idea. But this feels like it could potentially change the landscape

It's the kids that will have to pay to play
Pay-to-Play in the BCHL? That's Plan B For Now
The Death Pool – BCHL Goes Pay To Play

BCHL teams opening “training camp” in the months leading up to the “intended” start of the season will be charging players between $2000 and $3000 per month.

 

[sabresEH]

It's the kids that will have to pay to play
Pay-to-Play in the BCHL? That's Plan B For Now
The Death Pool – BCHL Goes Pay To Play

BCHL teams opening “training camp” in the months leading up to the “intended” start of the season will be charging players between $2000 and $3000 per month.

Those are both articles from 9 months ago when the junior A teams charged to play for COVID. Most years they don’t pay those high of fees if at all. Jr.B always pays. And this year they just doubled the fees of the kids to get them through the year. And then it shut down in December.

 

[TehDoak]

Guess that makes Montour worth a ....5th?

 

[elchud]

Nice value. I wanted Nemeth/Bernier back in December.

 

[Buffaloed]

Those are both articles from 9 months ago when the junior A teams charged to play for COVID. Most years they don’t pay those high of fees if at all. Jr.B always pays. And this year they just doubled the fees of the kids to get them through the year. And then it shut down in December.

I don't see any reports that they're planning to pay players.

 

[sabresEH]

I don't see any reports that they're planning to pay players.

Yeah, I haven’t seen anything either. It’s speculation on my point. But I know one of the prominent BCHL teams has already given cash to get guys to their program.

There’s also the rumour that 4 AJHL teams may join them. Alberta = Oil money. This isn’t a move for the sake of making a move. I think they may be up to something. Obviously we have to wait to see. I’ll speak with a part owner of one of the teams soon and see what he says.

 

[Buffaloed]

Yeah, I haven’t seen anything either. It’s speculation on my point. But I know one of the prominent BCHL teams has already given cash to get guys to their program.

There’s also the rumour that 4 AJHL teams may join them. Alberta = Oil money. This isn’t a move for the sake of making a move. I think they may be up to something. Obviously we have to wait to see. I’ll speak with a part owner of one of the teams soon and see what he says.

Got it, I thought we were getting a scoop.
The speculation I've seen is they want to be free to recruit any Canadian kid and compete directly with the USHL and NAHL. It would be attractive to Canadian kids with the talent to play in the CHL but want to play at US College or are undecided about it. If they play in the CHL they lose NCAA eligibility because they have to sign professional contracts.

 

[sabresEH]

Got it, I thought we were getting a scoop.
The speculation I've seen is they want to be free to recruit any Canadian kid and compete directly with the USHL and NAHL. It would be attractive to Canadian kids with the talent to play in the CHL but want to play at US College or are undecided about it. If they play in the CHL they lose NCAA eligibility because they have to sign professional contracts.

No scoop, all speculation. But the BCHL is already the Canadian comparable to USHL and NAHL. It's been the best Jr.A league in Canada for years and has served as a stepping stone to the NCAA for Canadian and American players.
Edit: As far as I know there’s no jurisdiction rule with the CJHL. If you wanna move to BC to play hockey you’re more than welcome to. Not obligated to play in your home province. Travis Zajac, and all his brothers, are Winnipeg born but all came to Salmon Arm to play Jr.A before college. The, free to get any Canadian, angle doesn’t work since they are already able to. Hell, the BCHL pulls from Cali, minny, and other US states regularly. I think this move is more at competing with the CHL than the USHL.

Possibly this move is to allow a BCHL winner to compete with USHL and NAHL winners for a "CUP" similar to the Memorial Cup or RBC Cup for Jr.A teams in Canada. But I have a hard time believing they've left to compete with those leagues. Canadian ego would have them suggest they're already superior. I believe it could be starting an alternative junior league. One that gives kids money, instead of kids being monetized, while being exposed to NHL scouts.

I could be way off base because not every team has money like the team I know, but this has supposedly been worked on behind the scenes for a bit, before COVID. I think we've seen in other sports, kids finding different avenues of getting paid before going pro and foregoing the traditional routes. I think this has the potential to be something of that ilk.

 

[Gras]

Got it, I thought we were getting a scoop.
The speculation I've seen is they want to be free to recruit any Canadian kid and compete directly with the USHL and NAHL. It would be attractive to Canadian kids with the talent to play in the CHL but want to play at US College or are undecided about it. If they play in the CHL they lose NCAA eligibility because they have to sign professional contracts.

NCAA needs to fix all their dumb rules

 

[Fjordy]

Guess that makes Montour worth a ....5th?

3rd

 

[jfb392]

Got it, I thought we were getting a scoop.
The speculation I've seen is they want to be free to recruit any Canadian kid and compete directly with the USHL and NAHL. It would be attractive to Canadian kids with the talent to play in the CHL but want to play at US College or are undecided about it. If they play in the CHL they lose NCAA eligibility because they have to sign professional contracts.

No scoop, all speculation. But the BCHL is already the Canadian comparable to USHL and NAHL. It's been the best Jr.A league in Canada for years and has served as a stepping stone to the NCAA for Canadian and American players.
Edit: As far as I know there’s no jurisdiction rule with the CJHL. If you wanna move to BC to play hockey you’re more than welcome to. Not obligated to play in your home province. Travis Zajac, and all his brothers, are Winnipeg born but all came to Salmon Arm to play Jr.A before college. The, free to get any Canadian, angle doesn’t work since they are already able to. Hell, the BCHL pulls from Cali, minny, and other US states regularly. I think this move is more at competing with the CHL than the USHL.

Possibly this move is to allow a BCHL winner to compete with USHL and NAHL winners for a "CUP" similar to the Memorial Cup or RBC Cup for Jr.A teams in Canada. But I have a hard time believing they've left to compete with those leagues. Canadian ego would have them suggest they're already superior. I believe it could be starting an alternative junior league. One that gives kids money, instead of kids being monetized, while being exposed to NHL scouts.

I could be way off base because not every team has money like the team I know, but this has supposedly been worked on behind the scenes for a bit, before COVID. I think we've seen in other sports, kids finding different avenues of getting paid before going pro and foregoing the traditional routes. I think this has the potential to be something of that ilk.

There is a rule that prevents players from moving from province to province until they are 18. A few of the Zajacs were able to play in the BCHL when they were younger, as it was prior to the implementation of the new Canadian Development Model in 2006. There are of course waivers available, but the only way you're really able to move province to province if you have midget eligibility left is if there's no high-level junior hockey offered by your branch (see: Newhook, Hockey NL only offers Jr. B). They've indicated that (for now, at least) they are still operating under the jurisdiction of Hockey Canada and BC Hockey, so the CDM will still apply and their ability to recruit players will remain the same.

Speculation from people I've talked to says they want to essentially become the USHL's North Division. I think it'd be a good move for a lot of reasons.

If they left Hockey Canada and became a USA Hockey member, they'd actually gain the ability to recruit 17 year olds from any province, so long as they moved to BC with a parent or guardian (CDM stipulates that in order to transfer your card from HC to USA Hockey, you must be 17 and reside with parent/guardian). Currently, they are barred from recruiting out-of-province 17 year old players (except in rare cases, such as Newhook).

They'd also likely become subsidized by the NHL via USA Hockey. I have no solid numbers, but I was told probably a decade ago now that the NHL pays the USHL a significant chunk of change every year in subsidies for their role in NHL player development, while Hockey Canada receives very little comparatively. Obviously, there's a trickle-down effect here and CJHL teams receive even less than the CHL in the way of aid because of their "Tier II" status. I think the costs have gotten prohibitive for many Jr. A teams and it's hard to stay afloat without a ton of sponsorships and charging players. Having those subsidies available would be huge for BCHL teams.

USHL also covers the full player costs and has a ton of sponsorships, so players get all the newest gear and such. This is a huge recruiting tool. No one wants to pay thousands of dollars to play, only to receive some cheap screen printed jersey that you can only keep if you pay additional money, five Winnwell sticks that are supposed to last you all year, and a pair of Graf skates that make you feel like you're skating in cement.

USHL players also have a ton of leverage when it comes to recruiting. Almost every single USHL player can command a full-ride scholarship (tuition & fees, room and board, meals), even the lower-end ones. Only the high-end BCHL players can command that, from my experience in college recruiting. The rest get varying degrees of aid offered, much like NAHL kids. That's why you see many of the D1 bottom feeders' rosters littered with lower-end BCHL and NAHL kids - they have little leverage and are low-risk commits. Playing in the USHL pretty much guarantees that you end up with hefty scholarship in a good program since the costs are just naturally prohibitive for the bad programs.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I guess they finished experimenting with JJ?

 

[joshjull]

I guess they finished experimenting with JJ?

Probably want a vet in the mix. I think their regular back up is out for a decent amount of time.

 

[sabresEH]

There is a rule that prevents players from moving from province to province until they are 18. A few of the Zajacs were able to play in the BCHL when they were younger, as it was prior to the implementation of the new Canadian Development Model in 2006. There are of course waivers available, but the only way you're really able to move province to province if you have midget eligibility left is if there's no high-level junior hockey offered by your branch (see: Newhook, Hockey NL only offers Jr. B). They've indicated that (for now, at least) they are still operating under the jurisdiction of Hockey Canada and BC Hockey, so the CDM will still apply and their ability to recruit players will remain the same.

Speculation from people I've talked to says they want to essentially become the USHL's North Division. I think it'd be a good move for a lot of reasons.

If they left Hockey Canada and became a USA Hockey member, they'd actually gain the ability to recruit 17 year olds from any province, so long as they moved to BC with a parent or guardian (CDM stipulates that in order to transfer your card from HC to USA Hockey, you must be 17 and reside with parent/guardian). Currently, they are barred from recruiting out-of-province 17 year old players (except in rare cases, such as Newhook).

They'd also likely become subsidized by the NHL via USA Hockey. I have no solid numbers, but I was told probably a decade ago now that the NHL pays the USHL a significant chunk of change every year in subsidies for their role in NHL player development, while Hockey Canada receives very little comparatively. Obviously, there's a trickle-down effect here and CJHL teams receive even less than the CHL in the way of aid because of their "Tier II" status. I think the costs have gotten prohibitive for many Jr. A teams and it's hard to stay afloat without a ton of sponsorships and charging players. Having those subsidies available would be huge for BCHL teams.

USHL also covers the full player costs and has a ton of sponsorships, so players get all the newest gear and such. This is a huge recruiting tool. No one wants to pay thousands of dollars to play, only to receive some cheap screen printed jersey that you can only keep if you pay additional money, five Winnwell sticks that are supposed to last you all year, and a pair of Graf skates that make you feel like you're skating in cement.

USHL players also have a ton of leverage when it comes to recruiting. Almost every single USHL player can command a full-ride scholarship (tuition & fees, room and board, meals), even the lower-end ones. Only the high-end BCHL players can command that, from my experience in college recruiting. The rest get varying degrees of aid offered, much like NAHL kids. That's why you see many of the D1 bottom feeders' rosters littered with lower-end BCHL and NAHL kids - they have little leverage and are low-risk commits. Playing in the USHL pretty much guarantees that you end up with hefty scholarship in a good program since the costs are just naturally prohibitive for the bad programs.

Awesome info, thanks!

 

[joshjull]

 

[joshjull]