Around the League Thread part V

[Statto]

I can't help but roll my eyes when the access media (which you are now, no offense) laments the social media/YT/blogosphere not having editorial standards.

Mainstream media, news, analysts and broadcasters are lazy too and get stuff wrong all the time. Always have.

If you've ever seen a subject that you know intimately covered in the news, it's usually inaccurate to a degree. Gell-Mann Amnesia - Epsilon Theory

I don't mean to come off like a jerk here (I've been listening to you and enjoying your content for years), but the reason it gets on your nerves when a YouTuber says the Kings have 1.5M in cap probably isn't because he's wrong, it's probably because he's competition.

I think the issue isn’t the YouTuber, it’s that people use that as a legitimate source and repeat the error made by the online blogger. It’s that they get treated as sources of the truth, rather than something that needs verifying.

I wouldn’t use Wikipedia as a source when writing a formal document in a business proposal. I might use it for ideas, but I’d absolutely go and verify anything on there. In the main Wikipedia is 100x a more reliable source than a YouTuber. I don’t knock them, they often provide useful insight and entertainment but nobody should be using them as a valid source of fact. The fact the YouTuber is wrong in of itself doesn’t matter.

 

[DoktorJeep]

After Times Square, the Vegas Strip and Hollywood, LA Live is the biggest entertainment district in the US. The statues are there because people take pictures in front of them and post them to social media.

It’s free advertising and it’s not limited to just Kings fans. Some family from Botswana may just happen to stand in front of the Brown statue and the Kings could be trending on Twitter on the continent of Africa. A girl twerking in front of the Robitaille statue would get more video views than Kopitar scoring the Michigan goal.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

While I appreciate the big picture discussion it really just boils down to people outside the LA market dont' know shit about this franchise

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

While I appreciate the big picture discussion it really just boils down to people outside the LA market dont' know shit about this franchise

To be fair, 75% of the people INSIDE the LA market doesn't know shit about the franchise....

 

[cyclones22]

What in the world, folks are still talking about the statue? Here's my 2 cents. I was able to go to a Season Ticketholder signing event. I had 1 shot to get my 2012 commemorative book signed and they split the top players. I chose the group with Brown in it and had him sign the page authored by him. Lots of history made and he was the Captain when it happened. FYI, he was no longer the Captain when he signed it, but I didn't give an F.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I can't help but roll my eyes when the access media (which you are now, no offense) laments the social media/YT/blogosphere not having editorial standards.

Mainstream media, news, analysts and broadcasters are lazy too and get stuff wrong all the time. Always have.

If you've ever seen a subject that you know intimately covered in the news, it's usually inaccurate to a degree. Gell-Mann Amnesia - Epsilon Theory

I don't mean to come off like a jerk here (I've been listening to you and enjoying your content for years), but the reason it gets on your nerves when a YouTuber says the Kings have 1.5M in cap probably isn't because he's wrong, it's probably because he's competition.

No offense taken HOWEVER

I don't care about competition and that's part of the entire issue for me.

There are people who want to cover this stuff because they like covering stuff. They enjoy telling stories. They like learning things and explaining them to others.

Then there are some people who like being in the spotlight. They count how many followers they have, how many likes they get, how many subscribers their channels get.

When I started doing this 15 years ago I had a disagreement with my partner at the time about how to approach it. He wanted to seek monetization immediately.

I didn't. I wanted to make the product as good and as reliable as possible in the hopes that someday the quality would be rewarded.

I don't care if a youtube, podcaster, blogger gets something wrong. Mistakes happen. I care when they get it wrong and it would have taken 30 seconds of self editing to see if they were right or wrong.

Because if you're constantly repeating things that are wrong and everybody repeats them then it becomes part of the public discourse which is then flawed and then everybody gets bent out of shape about things that aren't even true and then you have me fighting with my relatives on facebook about lizard people from the moon putting chemicals in the water.

It's a leap but THAT'S why I get bent out of shape. I don't care about "competition".

Well, yeah, and you just did what I described. We have to build a defense for it when the subject comes up because yes, it is a low-bar threshold thing because Brown just doesn't have the "esteem" that the general public thinks should be reserved for that kind of honor. Honor means different things to different people, and those who get nutty over these sorts of things likely still place value in statues like that having more prestige - and Brown ain't held in that regard outta town.

I agree with you, its just picture fodder for those who care and for those out of towners to deride at their leisure. So what. But nobody is "wrong" here, its like giving Adam Sandler an honorary Oscar. Sure, lots of fans and a ton of ticket sales, but... that guy? That's how it comes across, the decision caused a reaction and to the folks out of market it was a kind of peculiar choice and strange enough to talk about.

who cares?

You're spending way more time trying to convince me that I'm " making excuses" than I am actually stating my case.

 

[Bandit]

What the hell is this devil sorcery!?

It's what happens when you forget hockey is a contact sport.

 

[Herby]

I'm personally more of the belief that Hall of Fame inductions and statues out front of stadiums and arenas should be for the best of the best. Like in Chicago they have Jordan, Hull and Mikita outside and a couple of smaller ones inside the arena. I wish Staples had gone with a similar thing.

If I go to Canton, Cooperstown or Toronto I don't really want to see Frank Gore, Harold Baines and Glenn Anderson. But it is what it is. Two are in and one is likely to be in despite never being a Top 5 player at his position in any of his 800 NFL seasons.

That being said, with the amount of statues out front of Staples there is no shame on having Dustin Brown's out in front. If there were 1 or 2 statues maybe its different, but Brown will be what the 12th one assuming Kobe is added very soon?

 

[Steve Zissou]

Hague > Chychrun

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hague > Chychrun

Hague, Sanheim, Soucy all > Chychrun from a value perspective.

AZ's gonna get stuck holding the bag and I'm here for it. Unless someone panics at the deadline. I'll give credit to Blake for one thing right now, he's not a panic move guy--he might be TOO conservative but he's not gonna shit his pants for Chychrun like AZ expects. They've already lost a deadline and an offseason...their next best hope is this deadline but his value will be dwindling if he keeps getting banged up.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's what happens when you forget hockey is a contact sport.

I'm sure corporate would rather this be the highlight than Stevens knocking Lindros out. They're trying all they can, within the confines of multiple interests, to get the physical stuff out of the game. We can see what the NFL and the Dolphins are going through the last week.

I'm personally more of the belief that Hall of Fame inductions and statues out front of stadiums and arenas should be for the best of the best. Like in Chicago they have Jordan, Hull and Mikita outside and a couple of smaller ones inside the arena. I wish Staples had gone with a similar thing.

If I go to Canton, Cooperstown or Toronto I don't really want to see Frank Gore, Harold Baines and Glenn Anderson. But it is what it is. Two are in and one is likely to be in despite never being a Top 5 player at his position in any of his 800 NFL seasons.

That being said, with the amount of statues out front of Staples there is no shame on having Dustin Brown's out in front. If there were 1 or 2 statues maybe its different, but Brown will be what the 12th one assuming Kobe is added very soon?

Individual teams can do what they want. Hang whatever numbers you want up. Put up whatever banners you want. Statues, rings of honor, whatever. Those mean something to the franchise itself. You don't want to over-do it and make it meaningless, but I think you get some leeway.

The actual HoF? That needs to be reserved for the truly elite.

 

[All The Kings Men]

The actual HoF? That needs to be reserved for the truly elite.

Just to spin this conversation completely out of control...

I don't think the sports world has properly adapted to the idea that there are 30+ teams in every sport.

It's pretty simple to say a guy is elite when there's 6 teams or 12 teams or your New York Yankees and Montreal Canadiens are clowning on subservient franchises for 80 years but what do you do when guys move teams in their mid 20s, nobody wins a championship more than 3 or 4 times every 30 years...

I asked someone recently if the Hockey Hall of Fame should expand it's annual inductee list because there's 8 times as many teams as there was for the first 50 years of the league...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Just to spin this conversation completely out of control...

I don't think the sports world has properly adapted to the idea that there are 30+ teams in every sport.

It's pretty simple to say a guy is elite when there's 6 teams or 12 teams or your New York Yankees and Montreal Canadiens are clowning on subservient franchises for 80 years but what do you do when guys move teams in their mid 20s, nobody wins a championship more than 3 or 4 times every 30 years...

I asked someone recently if the Hockey Hall of Fame should expand it's annual inductee list because there's 8 times as many teams as there was for the first 50 years of the league...

It's the same thing as, how many 1D are there in the league? Is it 32? Is it 7? Does it depend on what you think a 1D would and should do?

 

[tbrown33]

. Some day I fully expect Bob Miller to be there right along side Chick Hearn. Two would have been enough.

There is a Bob Miller statue

 

[Herby]

Just to spin this conversation completely out of control...

I don't think the sports world has properly adapted to the idea that there are 30+ teams in every sport.

It's pretty simple to say a guy is elite when there's 6 teams or 12 teams or your New York Yankees and Montreal Canadiens are clowning on subservient franchises for 80 years but what do you do when guys move teams in their mid 20s, nobody wins a championship more than 3 or 4 times every 30 years...

I asked someone recently if the Hockey Hall of Fame should expand it's annual inductee list because there's 8 times as many teams as there was for the first 50 years of the league...

It depends on what your standards are.

I am more in the Deion Sanders group that the Hall of Fame should be for the truly elite of the elite. Let teams individually honor the Hall of Very Good with their own team stuff, whether it be statues, jersey retirements, ring of honors, team hall of fames.

I just have a hard time seeing how you put guys like Baines, Gore, Dave Andreychuk, Mark Recchi, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers into Hall of Fames.

Because they all played a really long-time at a good level and accumulated counting stats? None of these guys were ever close to being considered the best players at their positions at any point in their careers.

 

[All The Kings Men]

It depends on what your standards are.

I am more in the Deion Sanders group that the Hall of Fame should be for the truly elite of the elite. Let teams individually honor the Hall of Very Good with their own team stuff, whether it be statues, jersey retirements, ring of honors, team hall of fames.

I just have a hard time seeing how you put guys like Baines, Gore, Dave Andreychuk, Mark Recchi, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers into Hall of Fames.

Because they all played a really long-time at a good level and accumulated counting stats? None of these guys were ever close to being considered the best players at their positions at any point in their careers.

That's a fine standard to pretend to adhere to and I don't have a list of guys in the hall of fame off the top of my head but I'm willing to bet there's plenty of guys already in the Halls of Fame that were never considered the best players at their positions at any point in their careers

 

[21Dog]

It depends on what your standards are.

I am more in the Deion Sanders group that the Hall of Fame should be for the truly elite of the elite. Let teams individually honor the Hall of Very Good with their own team stuff, whether it be statues, jersey retirements, ring of honors, team hall of fames.

I just have a hard time seeing how you put guys like Baines, Gore, Dave Andreychuk, Mark Recchi, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers into Hall of Fames.

Because they all played a really long-time at a good level and accumulated counting stats? None of these guys were ever close to being considered the best players at their positions at any point in their careers.

May present Don Sutton and Phil Niekro?

 

[lumbergh]

Because they all played a really long-time at a good level and accumulated counting stats? None of these guys were ever close to being considered the best players at their positions at any point in their careers.

Anze Kopitar? I don't think he's been in the top 5 in scoring for centers once in his career.

 

[Herby]

Anze Kopitar? I don't think he's been in the top 5 in scoring for centers once in his career.

He'd be right on the fringe of what I consider a Hall of Fame player if I were sports dictator.

1 season as a Hart Trophy finalist helps his cause. Clearly a season he was Top 1-5 player in the entire NHL
2x Selke winner in an era dominated by the best defensive center of all-time in Bergeron.
2x Stanley Cup winner while being the best or 2nd best player those seasons.
14x leading his team in scoring

 

[bland]

No offense taken HOWEVER

I don't care about competition and that's part of the entire issue for me.

There are people who want to cover this stuff because they like covering stuff. They enjoy telling stories. They like learning things and explaining them to others.

Then there are some people who like being in the spotlight. They count how many followers they have, how many likes they get, how many subscribers their channels get.

When I started doing this 15 years ago I had a disagreement with my partner at the time about how to approach it. He wanted to seek monetization immediately.

I didn't. I wanted to make the product as good and as reliable as possible in the hopes that someday the quality would be rewarded.

I don't care if a youtube, podcaster, blogger gets something wrong. Mistakes happen. I care when they get it wrong and it would have taken 30 seconds of self editing to see if they were right or wrong.

Because if you're constantly repeating things that are wrong and everybody repeats them then it becomes part of the public discourse which is then flawed and then everybody gets bent out of shape about things that aren't even true and then you have me fighting with my relatives on facebook about lizard people from the moon putting chemicals in the water.

It's a leap but THAT'S why I get bent out of shape. I don't care about "competition".


who cares?

You're spending way more time trying to convince me that I'm " making excuses" than I am actually stating my case.

I am not talking about "you" at all, no need to be so defensive - and two posts ain't a lot of time.

Literally every single time the statue comes up we see the same thing, out of towners, including media types, all responding with incredulity. They don't get it, so every time WE respond it is by defending and excusing the decision.

And apparently you did care enough to be exasperated by the whole topic in the first place, Jesse.

 

[All The Kings Men]

And apparently you did care enough to be exasperated by the whole topic in the first place, Jesse.

That's my brand bland

 

[lumbergh]

He'd be right on the fringe of what I consider a Hall of Fame player if I were sports dictator.

1 season as a Hart Trophy finalist helps his cause. Clearly a season he was Top 1-5 player in the entire NHL
2x Selke winner in an era dominated by the best defensive center of all-time in Bergeron.
2x Stanley Cup winner while being the best or 2nd best player those seasons.
14x leading his team in scoring

As a huge Kopitar fan, I've been saying that Kopi is a borderline case for a while, but most everyone else thinks he's a slam dunk first-ballot candidate.

 

[Herby]

As a huge Kopitar fan, I've been saying that Kopi is a borderline case for a while, but most everyone else thinks he's a slam dunk first-ballot candidate.

I don't know about first ballot, but by the current standards he is certainly a lock.

If Dave Andreychuk and Mark Recchi are Hall of Famers, Kopitar certainly is.

I just disagree completely with the standards set in basically every sport. There are to many Hall of Very Good players in the Hall of Fame.

Players who hang around and accumulate counting stats are given to much credit and deemed HOF worthy, while their primes and how dominant they were are not taken into consideration enough.

Gore, Andreychuk and Baines being perfect example of this.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know it's mostly a philosophical disagreement but I think longevity has to count for something.

I don't care to parse it that hard right now but I feel like if a guy plays at a very high level in any league for 18+ years, it's more than just compiling.

But agreed on the peaks need to be examined more, given more weight.

 

[Bandit]

I'm sure corporate would rather this be the highlight than Stevens knocking Lindros out. They're trying all they can, within the confines of multiple interests, to get the physical stuff out of the game. We can see what the NFL and the Dolphins are going through the last week.



Individual teams can do what they want. Hang whatever numbers you want up. Put up whatever banners you want. Statues, rings of honor, whatever. Those mean something to the franchise itself. You don't want to over-do it and make it meaningless, but I think you get some leeway.

The actual HoF? That needs to be reserved for the truly elite.

Not hitting a guy at all and seding him to the hospital aren't the only two options in contact sports.