Around the League Thread part V

[King'sPawn]

"Erik Rasmussen and Derek Armstrong and plugging them into top 6 roles".

you say that like it was a bad thing.

Bless Jim Fox, but wasn't this also the time when he said the Kings have 9 top-6 forwards?

 

[Herby]

I saw Rasmussen at a wedding a few years ago. He was so terrible as a King I didn’t even bother to introduce myself as a Kings fan because I thought it would trigger bad memories for the poor guy.

Taylor always loved reclamation projects and giving last chances to failed prospects. I think they thought Rasmussen had an untapped scoring potential.

 

[Sol]

Damn this is cold-blooded.

This is best thing I’ve ever seen

 

[BigKing]

Big disagree on this part. This trade was done because of two good weeks. They went on a 9 game unbeaten streak right before the deadline. Prior to that I think they were 14th in the Conference and like the 3rd worst team in the NHL. The cracks were showing BIG TIME and that winning streak came at an awful time. They should have unloaded Stoll and Williams and taken a few 1sts in return. It was the 2nd worst choice (after the Lucic one) and back to backs like that are devastating.

Still missed the playoffs by one point and I think had the most points of a team to miss the playoffs ever, or at least close to it. A completely insane OT/SO record that any sort of regression to the mean would have meant playoffs.

They 100% deserved to have DL be all-in on them. It was also easy to chalk that season up to bad-luck and go all-in again the next season. Wrong move but not even remotely crazy at the time. Can't forget that they had been on a real heater when it came to drafting outside of the 1st so losing the 1st round picks doesn't seem as crazy when they are feeling themselves. The Lucic trade comes off of their last 1st round pick hopping over to Manchester from Sweden to pot a bunch of goals and help them win the Calder Cup. The Lucic trade comes after the bad decision to keep Richards and the Sekera trade. Gaborik contract is not an issue at the time as he just came off a 27 goal season. DL's W/L record at that time over the past 4-5 seasons was awesome. I've said it before but there was some definite hubris involved in the Lucic trade and that over-confidence plus belief in the team sans a bunch of real leaders led to his quick demise.

DL believed in "The Core 4", the supporting pieces and the organization. Kind of feels like all of those things ultimately let him down as evidenced by basically every key member of the 2017 team going on to have career years after that season and/or get traded and all of a sudden be good again. That is not absolving him of any blame: he's running the show so it ultimately falls on him. I can guarantee that it would have been a very small minority on here that would have been happy to just hold the 1st rounder and watch Williams walk out the door with no replacement. This was still a very confident group on this board even when missing the playoffs in 2015 and was just as confident during 2016 until it fell apart at the end. Shit...most of us thought they would win that SJ series.

 

[Bandit]

Damn this is cold-blooded.

Surprised it got that far off the ground.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Crash on takeoff and then there was a fire.

Winnepeg hockey.

 

[crassbonanza]

Still missed the playoffs by one point and I think had the most points of a team to miss the playoffs ever, or at least close to it. A completely insane OT/SO record that any sort of regression to the mean would have meant playoffs.

They 100% deserved to have DL be all-in on them. It was also easy to chalk that season up to bad-luck and go all-in again the next season. Wrong move but not even remotely crazy at the time. Can't forget that they had been on a real heater when it came to drafting outside of the 1st so losing the 1st round picks doesn't seem as crazy when they are feeling themselves. The Lucic trade comes off of their last 1st round pick hopping over to Manchester from Sweden to pot a bunch of goals and help them win the Calder Cup. The Lucic trade comes after the bad decision to keep Richards and the Sekera trade. Gaborik contract is not an issue at the time as he just came off a 27 goal season. DL's W/L record at that time over the past 4-5 seasons was awesome. I've said it before but there was some definite hubris involved in the Lucic trade and that over-confidence plus belief in the team sans a bunch of real leaders led to his quick demise.

DL believed in "The Core 4", the supporting pieces and the organization. Kind of feels like all of those things ultimately let him down as evidenced by basically every key member of the 2017 team going on to have career years after that season and/or get traded and all of a sudden be good again. That is not absolving him of any blame: he's running the show so it ultimately falls on him. I can guarantee that it would have been a very small minority on here that would have been happy to just hold the 1st rounder and watch Williams walk out the door with no replacement. This was still a very confident group on this board even when missing the playoffs in 2015 and was just as confident during 2016 until it fell apart at the end. Shit...most of us thought they would win that SJ series.

I absolutely did not like the Lucic trade at the time because I thought the cost was much too high for an upcoming UFA, but he played damn well with the Kings. That team just dominated possession wise, with a 56.37 CF%, tops in the league ahead of the Pens who had a 52.72%. Lucic fit so well with Toffoli and I loved his post win celly's with Martinez. They had the 3rd most ROW that season and looked like they were back after the unlucky season the year before. Wasn't that the season where they blew out the Bruins 7-0? I think we are all in agreement that the Cernac trade and Lucic one were bad, but expecting a GM to go full rebuild and trade the core when they were just dominating all the underlying statistics just doesn't make sense. I mean, hell it took Blake consecutive seasons at the bottom of the division before finally trading the peripheral pieces and going for a retool.

 

[Bandit]

but he played damn well with the Kings.

I dunno, my most vivid memories of his tenure involve him failing to chip the puck out of the D zone on the boards about 150,000 times.

 

[Kudelski37]

I dunno, my most vivid memories of his tenure involve him failing to chip the puck out of the D zone on the boards about 150,000 times.

This. Lucic was productive, but was rarely in the right place or making the right play. He was the one bad player on the good beer league team. The Sharks funneled the puck to him and got him to turn the puck over to neuter the Kings top line. Too bad Sutter didn't change strategies.

 

[crassbonanza]

I dunno, my most vivid memories of his tenure involve him failing to chip the puck out of the D zone on the boards about 150,000 times.

I guess we all remember what we want to. My most vivid memory was how surprisingly fast he was on the rush with Toff and Carter. Also, the post win celebrations I mentioned earlier.

 

[crassbonanza]

This. Lucic was productive, but was rarely in the right place or making the right play. He was the one bad player on the good beer league team. The Sharks funneled the puck to him and got him to turn the puck over to neuter the Kings top line. Too bad Sutter didn't change strategies.

Maybe my memory is wrong, but I don't remember Lucuc on the top line a whole lot. I remember him playing with Toffoli and Carter. I could be wrong though. Anyways, he put up 20 goals and 55 points and was a +26. It's kind of bullshit to call him the bad player. For reference Danault just put up 51 points with a +14 and he is the greatest player this team has ever had according to some on here. Obviously there is more to it than that, but saying he was bad with us just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Maybe my memory is wrong, but I don't remember Lucuc on the top line a whole lot. I remember him playing with Toffoli and Carter. I could be wrong though. Anyways, he put up 20 goals and 55 points and was a +26. It's kind of bullshit to call him the bad player. For reference Danault just put up 51 points with a +14 and he is the greatest player this team has ever had according to some on here. Obviously there is more to it than that, but saying he was bad with us just doesn't sit well with me.

He was very good with us, just had some very obvious exploitable weaknesses. Doesn't make him a bad player but when you're such a low offense team used to HOF two-way players, 'flawless' is the only metric for 'good defensively.'

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't know what to make of the Jets. I'm also thinking the Pac might send 5 teams to the playoffs this time.

That's how cheap AEG was under Tim Leiweke and Kevin Gilmore. Thanks to them, the Kings nickel and dimed every player when it came to contract negotiations, thus the "Dumpster Dave" moniker came to existence. They lowballed Rob Blake, Luc Robitaille, Philippe Boucher, and signed the likes of Steve Heinze and Randy Robitaille, among other low budget free agent signings the Kings would make year-after-year (like replacing Stu Grimson with Ken Belanger).

When a big name would become a free agent, fans would get excited about the possibility of adding a big name, like Sergei Fedorov or Bill Guerin, but instead they'd wind up trading for the likes of Erik Rasmussen and Derek Armstrong and plugged them into top six roles.

The Kings were a small market team. Without the cap, they never get Richards and Carter. Philly just adds Bryzgalov to those two, along with something else.

 

[Kudelski37]

Maybe my memory is wrong, but I don't remember Lucuc on the top line a whole lot. I remember him playing with Toffoli and Carter. I could be wrong though. Anyways, he put up 20 goals and 55 points and was a +26. It's kind of bullshit to call him the bad player. For reference Danault just put up 51 points with a +14 and he is the greatest player this team has ever had according to some on here. Obviously there is more to it than that, but saying he was bad with us just doesn't sit well with me.

He was with Kopitar from December through the playoffs. He was the "even a broken clock is right twice a day" player. He got points on the few plays that the right things happened and was an anchor the rest of the time. Kopitar was really awesome and able to compensate for that anchor.

I will freely admit that Lucic is one of those players that I never liked, even when he was helping Boston beat Vancouver. Needless to say, I was not happy when he was traded to LA.

 

[crassbonanza]

He was very good with us, just had some very obvious exploitable weaknesses. Doesn't make him a bad player but when you're such a low offense team used to HOF two-way players, 'flawless' is the only metric for 'good defensively.'

I mean if his weaknesses were so obvious, it is surprising that opposing coaches were not able to exploit them more. He had a 57.59 xGF% that season, 3rd most among regular skaters on the Kings, despite playing nearly twice as many minutes as the two guys ahead of him(Shore and Gaborik). His xGA/60 was just 1.99 that season, so it wasn't all offense driving his xGF. Again, obviously there are matchups to consider and zone starts, but over the course of a season you would think opposing coaches would find a way to exploit his weaknesses if they were so obvious.

He was with Kopitar from December through the playoffs. He was the "even a broken clock is right twice a day" player. He got points on the few plays that the right things happened and was an anchor the rest of the time. Kopitar was really awesome and able to compensate for that anchor.

I will freely admit that Lucic is one of those players that I never liked, even when he was helping Boston beat Vancouver. Needless to say, I was not happy when he was traded to LA.

How were his analytics so good then? Was the clock just constantly right when he was on the ice? I remember him being very good and most of the underlying statistics seem to back that memory up.

Also, check out the WOWY for Kopi and Looch that season, you may be shocked to see that Kopitar was significantly better with Looch on his line.

 

[Fishhead]

There's always a lot of discussion about how the Kings should add a player who can put up points even if they aren't a wizard defensively or a solid 2-way player. There is also constant pining for players who play with balls and stick up for their teammates. That's exactly what Lucic was. Opportunistic, good numbers overall, can drop the gloves, good teammate. Outside of the actual cost of the trade, I don't see anything to complain about from a hockey standpoint, really. I mean, his points were right there with Gaborik, who has always been considered a really solid pickup around here.

 

[Schrute farms]

There's always a lot of discussion about how the Kings should add a player who can put up points even if they aren't a wizard defensively or a solid 2-way player. There is also constant pining for players who play with balls and stick up for their teammates. That's exactly what Lucic was. Opportunistic, good numbers overall, can drop the gloves, good teammate. Outside of the actual cost of the trade, I don't see anything to complain about from a hockey standpoint, really. I mean, his points were right there with Gaborik, who has always been considered a really solid pickup around here.

Ironically, I feel like that 2015 version of Lucic is exactly the kind of player the Kings could use right now.
But he was not something that was needed on the 2015 Kings. That Kings needed youth, skill, sniper goal scoring -- not more size/beef/balls.

 

[Fishhead]

Ironically, I feel like that 2015 version of Lucic is exactly the kind of player the Kings could use right now.
But he was not something that was needed on the 2015 Kings. That Kings needed youth, skill, sniper goal scoring -- not more size/beef/balls.

Yeah I agree. I think a lot of the negative opinions on Lucic stem from exactly this. We were so used to that kind of player it's human nature to want something different. Also his back condition makes him look like an old bruiser perfect for the old NHL. And some people just don't like him because of some of the things he's done and his style. Totally get that part. Same thing now, the team has shifted fully away from that and now he'd be perfect. Hopefully we move towards a balance in that regard.

On paper he was quite effective though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean if his weaknesses were so obvious, it is surprising that opposing coaches were not able to exploit them more. He had a 57.59 xGF% that season, 3rd most among regular skaters on the Kings, despite playing nearly twice as many minutes as the two guys ahead of him(Shore and Gaborik). His xGA/60 was just 1.99 that season, so it wasn't all offense driving his xGF. Again, obviously there are matchups to consider and zone starts, but over the course of a season you would think opposing coaches would find a way to exploit his weaknesses if they were so obvious.



How were his analytics so good then? Was the clock just constantly right when he was on the ice? I remember him being very good and most of the underlying statistics seem to back that memory up.

Also, check out the WOWY for Kopi and Looch that season, you may be shocked to see that Kopitar was significantly better with Looch on his line.

In the playoffs he got ripped apart. 2nd most forward minutes next to Kopitar and has the worst fenwick on the team by 5%, the 2nd worst CF%, and a 33% GF%.

He was great all regular season, I liked the trade like Lucic and like what he did here but he got nailed

 

[crassbonanza]

In the playoffs he got ripped apart. 2nd most forward minutes next to Kopitar and has the worst fenwick on the team by 5%, the 2nd worst CF%, and a 33% GF%.

He was great all regular season, I liked the trade like Lucic and like what he did here but he got nailed

I agree that he had a rough playoffs, but he did also have the lowest ozone faceoff% on the team at 48.72. It's kind of similar to Danault having the second highest xGA/60 last season, his zone starts play a factor. Anyways, Looch played 1179 minutes of 5 on 5 in the regular season and absolutely dominated for the Kings, he didn't play well in the playoffs, but that was just 67 minutes. The sample size gets tough when discussing things like that, I believe there is a difference between the playoffs and regular season, but it could have also just been a bad stretch of games for him.

 

[BigKing]

He wasn't good in the playoffs but the team tanked going into said playoffs and continued that run.

Lucic wasn't the problem on that team: the problem was on defense. I fully believe Lombardi thought they were going to get Voynov back. He makes the Lucic deal. Summer moves on and Voynov gets deported. Kings could not afford injuries on the blue line but they got them in Matt Greene and then Martinez late. Same issue with the 2018 team: no chance with Muzzin out and Phantomberg eating minutes.

Here are the games played by Kings defenseman in the 2016 playoffs:

Doughty - 5
Muzzin - 5
McNabb - 5
Schenn - 5
Scuderi - 5
McBain - 4
Martinez - 1

That's a disgusting group. Scuderi would never play another NHL game. McBain would play only three more and he was only 28 years old.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

 

[All The Kings Men]

He wasn't good in the playoffs but the team tanked going into said playoffs and continued that run.

Lucic wasn't the problem on that team: the problem was on defense. I fully believe Lombardi thought they were going to get Voynov back. He makes the Lucic deal. Summer moves on and Voynov gets deported. Kings could not afford injuries on the blue line but they got them in Matt Greene and then Martinez late. Same issue with the 2018 team: no chance with Muzzin out and Phantomberg eating minutes.

Here are the games played by Kings defenseman in the 2016 playoffs:

Doughty - 5
Muzzin - 5
McNabb - 5
Schenn - 5
Scuderi - 5
McBain - 4
Martinez - 1

That's a disgusting group. Scuderi would never play another NHL game. McBain would play only three more and he was only 28 years old.

and muzzin was never as effective as his proponents would insist on

EDIT: And frankly I never liked Lecavalier's play that much. They made the trade for Lecavalier and Schenn in like what ealy January? Then basically coasted into the playoffs and coasted right out of them.

never liked that trade

 

[Steve Zissou]

Now Vegas is dicking around Nicolas Hague.

 

[BigKing]

and muzzin was never as effective as his proponents would insist on

EDIT: And frankly I never liked Lecavalier's play that much. They made the trade for Lecavalier and Schenn in like what ealy January? Then basically coasted into the playoffs and coasted right out of them.

never liked that trade

Gaborik got hurt in the stupid World Cup, I believe, and then got the knee injury against the Rangers when it looked like he was starting to get back into form.

102 point season but it felt like a real missed opportunity: both on the ice and then the other way if Lombardi didn't go all-in.