Around the League | Reckoning

[Peter Griffin]

I think it’s time to acknowledge that this is a Canadian culture issue within our sport. It’s not just rich American prep school kids.

It’s our hockey players being alpha boy kings wherever they go and being told they can do and say whatever they want because they play a sport well. And a huge infrastructure and apparatus that enables it, riddled with people who have come through that same system themselves.

It’s akin to high school football players in the USA. The whole Friday Night lights deal.

 

[MS]

I think it’s time to acknowledge that this is a Canadian culture issue within our sport. It’s not just rich American prep school kids.

It’s our hockey players being alpha boy kings wherever they go and being told they can do and say whatever they want because they play a sport well. And a huge infrastructure and apparatus that enables it, riddled with people who have come through that same system themselves.

I don't think it's really anything to do with hockey in particular. To me it's a teenage thing where you have kids with lots of hormones and not a lot of empathy or critical thinking skills.

I don't think there's anything specific to hockey that makes it different than a group of kids in any other sport or your redneck shop kids or whatever. I remember a couple sketchy things happening when I was back in HS and it wasn't the sports kids that were involved - it was much more the redneck party crowd.

It just makes the news when it's hockey players because these guys are celebrities. If the same thing happened involving a HS swimming team from Saskatoon, none of us would even be aware of it.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I don't think it's really anything to do with hockey in particular. To me it's a teenage thing where you have kids with lots of hormones and not a lot of empathy or critical thinking skills.

I don't think there's anything specific to hockey that makes it different than a group of kids in any other sport or your redneck shop kids or whatever. I remember a couple sketchy things happening when I was back in HS and it wasn't the sports kids that were involved - it was much more the redneck party crowd.

It just makes the news when it's hockey players because these guys are celebrities. If the same thing happened involving a HS swimming team from Saskatoon, none of us would even be aware of it.

Yeah, this stuff happens in every realm, and there have historically been little consequences.

The major issue is when you have higher ups comprised of executives who are "respected sports ambassadors" doing the best they can to cover up allegations under the rug. These guys will probably face little repercussions. This is a culture of sports that's being called into question.

Now what's ironic is seeing a tweet mentioning todays news, and right under....seeing a recommended tweet with a Lebrun article talking about the masterclass job Cheveldayoff has done in Winnipeg. Damn.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Just hope justice prevails and the victim gets peace

 

[m9]

Each has their role. Thus good on TSN to have a Rick Westhead on board, to counter what the likes of a Bob McKenzie/Dreger/LeBrun etc. does.

I don't expect the latter to dig into the stuff Westhead does. But, when it comes to light, just shows how "surface" their reporting truly is. They are reporters/media, not journalists..... So long as they keep that distinction that they don't have the same title as Westhead, that's fine....

Exactly.

The people that get mad at Friedman or whoever for not reporting enough on this are out to lunch. Bring to light the people/journalists/investigators who are the ones doing the work. That should be the "hockey insider" job in this situation and for the most part they do it just fine.

 

[Ernie]

Apparently CGY noted that Dube's leave was related to mental health and wished him well/hoped he will get better. With Hart, the Flyers didn't say anything besides "no comment". Dube might not be involved.

Hart, Formenton, Mcleod, and Foote appear to be four of the five, almost certainly.

The timing seems like way too much of a coincidence if Dube isn't involved in some fashion. Not a good look for the Flames trying to reframe it this way.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Seravalli is just like a Reddit shitposter who gets a paycheque

 

[Timmer44]

Each has their role. Thus good on TSN to have a Rick Westhead on board, to counter what the likes of a Bob McKenzie/Dreger/LeBrun etc. does.

I don't expect the latter to dig into the stuff Westhead does. But, when it comes to light, just shows how "surface" their reporting truly is. They are reporters/media, not journalists..... So long as they keep that distinction that they don't have the same title as Westhead, that's fine....

This is a good take.

I believe Westhead is doing an incredible job investigating what most of the hockey "media" have intentionlly avoided. That being said, you can't deny Westhead's career has been positively affected by these same investigations.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I think it’s time to acknowledge that this is a Canadian culture issue within our sport. It’s not just rich American prep school kids.

It’s our hockey players being alpha boy kings wherever they go and being told they can do and say whatever they want because they play a sport well. And a huge infrastructure and apparatus that enables it, riddled with people who have come through that same system themselves.

This is absolutely an issue. While there are lots of players who are humble or 'good natured' or whatever, there are also a ton of players who act like entitled shits.

I used to work in the bar and restaurant industry, and I got to deal with a LOT of NHL players, and some junior players.

One notable story was in December, close to the Christmas break. Members of the Calgary Hitmen came in to my establishment for a team dinner. Since this is a junior hockey team, there were minors. Many of them were asking/demanding to be served booze, were acting like little pissants, and actually did significant damage in our restrooms.

I get that part of it is an age/maturity issue, but they weren't the only younger patrons I had to deal with, but they definitely were, as a collective group, the worst I had to deal with.

Lots of other instances, but I know that this board is strict on 'hearsay', so I'll refrain.

I think part of it, too, is that you have players acting like they've accomplished something great/amazing or whatever when they haven't done jack shit, and you also had asshole firebreathing coaches who would keep these younger players in line. The Crawfords/Babcocks have been squeezed out (largely) but there hasn't been a significant tonal shift on the players side of things.

I'm not sure what the solution is, given these kids are venerated, have potentially millions of dollars coming their way, etc.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I don't think it's really anything to do with hockey in particular. To me it's a teenage thing where you have kids with lots of hormones and not a lot of empathy or critical thinking skills.

I don't think there's anything specific to hockey that makes it different than a group of kids in any other sport or your redneck shop kids or whatever. I remember a couple sketchy things happening when I was back in HS and it wasn't the sports kids that were involved - it was much more the redneck party crowd.

It just makes the news when it's hockey players because these guys are celebrities. If the same thing happened involving a HS swimming team from Saskatoon, none of us would even be aware of it.

I don't think it's quite that simple. On the one hand, you're right - this sort of assault and behaviour is not the exclusive dominion of hockey.

That said, when something happens enough at all levels of the sport, I think we have to acknowledge a systemic issue within the sport, similar to how a systemic problem was identified within the Catholic church, for example.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Time like this is where you can tell who are the real journalists and who are just hockey insiders.

Shame on reporters who kept talking about the Utah expansion BS this morning yet wouldn’t bring up the WJC incident, I’m talking about LeBrun

 

[credulous]

seravelli is such a hack. reported dube and hart weren't involved and then deleted the tweets when it became apparent they were

 

[StreetHawk]

Time like this is where you can tell who are the real journalists and who are just hockey insiders.

Shame on reporters who kept talking about the Utah expansion BS this morning yet wouldn’t bring up the WJC incident, I’m talking about LeBrun

Is it just coincidence that the NHL releases a statement on Utah expansion interest when multiple players from that 2018 team have to take a leave of absence in a span of like 30 hours? Hmmm.. Get those talking heads something else to discuss.

Not like the Delta Center is fit for NHL hockey. It's like the Suns and Nets arena with around 13K unobstructed seats.

 

[PG Canuck]

All these players are future Blackhawks btw

 

[supercanuck]

All these players are future Blackhawks btw

McDavid would welcome them with open arms

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Comtois issued one of the strongest denials of any player on that team. Highly doubt he was involved.

I mean, Dube and Foote released denials too. But it does look like he is not one of the 5 at this point.

Interestingly, Boris Katchouk and Drake Batherson never issued denials either (along with Formenton and McLeod). I wonder if there are more charges to come.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

I mean, Dube and Foote released denials too. But it does look like he is not one of the 5 at this point.

Interestingly, Boris Katchouk and Drake Batherson never issued denials either (along with Formenton and McLeod). I wonder if there are more charges to come.

Mods please delete if not allowed

It has been long speculated that Batherson is cooperating with the police investigation. One player on the team walked in, said wtf and immediately left.

 

[Diversification]

The timing seems like way too much of a coincidence if Dube isn't involved in some fashion. Not a good look for the Flames trying to reframe it this way.

Dube hiding behind mental illness is chickenshit as all get out. Not sure if Flames as an organization is to blame however. They could just have taken the player's health claims at face value. But gross if it ends up Dube's one of the 5.

 

[MS]

I don't think it's quite that simple. On the one hand, you're right - this sort of assault and behaviour is not the exclusive dominion of hockey.

That said, when something happens enough at all levels of the sport, I think we have to acknowledge a systemic issue within the sport, similar to how a systemic problem was identified within the Catholic church, for example.

I think it's a huge over-exaggeration to compare this to the thousands of assaults by the same people in power over decades in the Catholic Church and the systemic cover-up.

There have been probably 10 000 age 16-20 teenage guys (the rapiest, most assholey demographic on the planet no matter what the specifics about them are) who have played CHL hockey in the last decade. And with any sample size that large ... you're going to get some issues. But I don't know if the 4 or 5 unconnected assaults/alleged assaults in that timeframe involving CHL players represent a 'systemic problem' or even a statistical problem.

Obviously any incident happening is bad and the goal should be 0, even if that isn't achievable. And striving to be better is obviously a good thing and should happen. But I'm not seeing any sort of rapey statistical outlier involving teenage hockey players happening here. I think mostly it's just that these are the assaults we hear about because the sport and its players are so ingrained in the national consciousness.

 

[supercanuck]

 

[MS]

I mean, Dube and Foote released denials too. But it does look like he is not one of the 5 at this point.

Interestingly, Boris Katchouk and Drake Batherson never issued denials either (along with Formenton and McLeod). I wonder if there are more charges to come.

Mods please delete if not allowed

It has been long speculated that Batherson is cooperating with the police investigation. One player on the team walked in, said wtf and immediately left.

Yeah, if you go to the Ottawa boards it seems like they're all pretty aware that Batherson is the guy who got messaged to come to their room to party, walked in ... ate a slice of pizza, and then got the hell out of there.

The fact that Melnyk's daughters banned Formenton from playing for Ottawa but Batherson was considered fine to continue his career should tell you he's OK.

 

[Vector]

 

[Wisp]

I don't think it's really anything to do with hockey in particular. To me it's a teenage thing where you have kids with lots of hormones and not a lot of empathy or critical thinking skills.

I don't think there's anything specific to hockey that makes it different than a group of kids in any other sport or your redneck shop kids or whatever. I remember a couple sketchy things happening when I was back in HS and it wasn't the sports kids that were involved - it was much more the redneck party crowd.

It just makes the news when it's hockey players because these guys are celebrities. If the same thing happened involving a HS swimming team from Saskatoon, none of us would even be aware of it.

Well, it's a hockey thing in the way the adults who have responsibility over these players failed to model good behaviour, set expectations, and allowed them to roam unchecked this way. Hockey Canada bears a lot of responsibility here for that reason.

 

[Vector]

Word of warning to people, a forum I posted on had a poster get sued by Brian Burke over them spreading rumours about him there. Not saying anyone here is anywhere close to that here but be careful.

 

[F A N]

I don't think it's really anything to do with hockey in particular. To me it's a teenage thing where you have kids with lots of hormones and not a lot of empathy or critical thinking skills.

I don't think there's anything specific to hockey that makes it different than a group of kids in any other sport or your redneck shop kids or whatever. I remember a couple sketchy things happening when I was back in HS and it wasn't the sports kids that were involved - it was much more the redneck party crowd.

It just makes the news when it's hockey players because these guys are celebrities. If the same thing happened involving a HS swimming team from Saskatoon, none of us would even be aware of it.

Of course the "celebrities" involved make people pay attention. And mind you, the players involved were more University/College aged than HS. Given that we heard about the Harvard freshman sexually assaulted girls, I think many of us would hear if a HS swim team from Saskatoon assaulted a girl.

Not sure why you often downplay these things as kids would be kids.