Around the League Part 9: The Post-Tavareslyptic Hellscape

[Stickpucker]

I can see Bob testing Ufa bc I think he'll want to get paid and CBJ will need money for all their youngins.

 

[GoldiFox]

I can see Bob testing Ufa bc I think he'll want to get paid and CBJ will need money for all their youngins.

That is a good news, bad news scenario.

Good because he’d be available. Bad because he’d be asking for $9+ million (Price comparable). And he will probably get close to it.

Top goalies just rarely ever make it to UFA. They are just too important to team success and too scary to replace.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Buyouts and retention are one thing, Arizona is doing something nobody else does. Pronger, Datsyuk and Hossa type situations aren’t landing here.



Wouldn’t know if they did. Anyway, I never said that this happened. I said I’d raise an eyebrow if the organization told me they couldn’t find change in the couch cushions,while serially picking up contracts of players who would never step on the ice.

They're both ways of getting you to, or just past, the floor. Like I said, of course they've done it to a larger degree, but between Bickell, and that, I don't think we are much better considering we're usually just above the floor in recent years. And I don't see how these situations would be any less likely to affect negotiations. Though I don't really expect either has affected them much.

 

[Joe McGrath]

That is a good news, bad news scenario.

Good because he’d be available. Bad because he’d be asking for $9+ million (Price comparable). And he will probably get close to it.

Unless he has a down year which is always possible.

 

[Stickpucker]

Anyone with a sub who can post some snippets?

A deep look at Noah Hanifin and what he brings to the Flames...

 

[vorbis]

Anyone with a sub who can post some snippets?

A deep look at Noah Hanifin and what he brings to the Flames...

Conclusion
Hanifin is a bit of a curious case. His list of comparables in the league is short and features some stars and superstars. It also has more than a few “merely competent” middle rotation defenders, many of whom Hanifin is closer to in terms of his first three years worth of results than to the stars.
That is mostly due to Hanifin’s first couple of seasons in the league which were just okay. His third season, however, showed a big spurt of progress, albeit in a very sheltered role. He’s a guy who has shown a penchant for transitioning the puck effectively but struggled to contribute to shots in the offensive zone and prevent zone entries at this own blueline.
What matters to the Flames is if Hanifin can continue to show further development in top-four circumstances.

most of the analysis is stuff that was explored frequently on this board. yes he has skills. yes he's excellent at zone entries/exits. yes he was heavily sheltered. yes his list of comparables includes stars and superstars, but also JustAGuys like Bogosian and Jonas Brodin. here is a chart used in the article. funnily enough it paints Hanifin in a poor light relative to the other successful young defensemen, but Justin Faulk comes out pretty well! https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/upl...n-Shot-2018-07-11-at-11.48.07-AM-1024x753.png

 

[Lempo]

Anyone with a sub who can post some snippets?

A deep look at Noah Hanifin and what he brings to the Flames...

If what you make your SM slaves do is reading and reporting Calgary hockey articles, you're 50 shades of shady.

 

[Stickpucker]

@vorbis ty senor.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yeah, I'm glad we avoided a 5-6 year, 25-30 mill deal with Lindolm. Guy's great, but not worth that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Eh, he seems like a certainty to be useful 6 years from now, and by that time $5M deals are going to be standard for middle-6ers.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Yeah, I'm glad we avoided a 5-6 year, 25-30 mill deal with Lindolm. Guy's great, but not worth that.

A little high. Not franchise-crippling, but it does feel good knowing that’s the number we traded away.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This upcoming season will be his 6th in the league. Now, if he really was being held back offensively by the various coaches we've had during that time, then sure, that's a safe bet.

But if what he's shown thus far is all the result of his play and his decisions, then I don't see why the following 6 would be any different than his first 6.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Eh, he seems like a certainty to be useful 6 years from now, and by that time $5M deals are going to be standard for middle-6ers.

A little high. Not franchise-crippling, but it does feel good knowing that’s the number we traded away.

Yeah, that's how I see it. With Rask getting $4M/year two years ago, you knew Lindholm was going to ask for at least $4.5. This might be a little high, but not overly.

If Ferland has another 20 goal season (and I'm not sure he will given that last season was by far a career year for him), you can bet he's going to ask for the same in free agency. Not sure it's going to be a savings in the long run, but we'll see.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Eh, he seems like a certainty to be useful 6 years from now, and by that time $5M deals are going to be standard for middle-6ers.

I agree with this too. But if it’s standard 6 years from now, it’s high now.

Unless he hits the potential very few at this point think he has, it’s hard to picture this ever being a “bargain”. And not every contract needs to end up a bargain, but when it’s signed it should have some potential to be.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't think it's crazy out of line, but I'm okay with us not giving it to him.

 

[Brock Anton]

That's a bullet dodged. I just don't see this untapped potential that many see, dude is a 40-point top 9 player.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree with this too. But if it’s standard 6 years from now, it’s high now.

Unless he hits the potential very few at this point think he has, it’s hard to picture this ever being a “bargain”. And not every contract needs to end up a bargain, but when it’s signed it should have some potential to be.

I don’t think he’s ever going to be anywhere near his draft potential. He hasn’t even shown a flash of it.

That said, he’s a guy you wouldn’t feel terrible having as the 3rd best guy on your top line, next to star players. It’s entirely possible that Flames fans are crowing about their “top line winger” this time next year, with him having scored a bunch of points he didn’t necessarily create. I think $5M is pretty close to market price for that sort of player, even now.

Reminds me a lot of the Jordan Staal contract. People flipped out at the time because he got point-scorer money without being a point scorer. But as time goes by, it’s proven to be a fair deal for what he actually brings to a hockey team.

 

[HisIceness]

Yeah, I'm glad we avoided a 5-6 year, 25-30 mill deal with Lindolm. Guy's great, but not worth that.

Sheesh. I'm sure Lindholm will benefit from playing with Johnny G and Monahan but here? Yeah at that price I'll pass. He isn't getting any better in a Hurricanes sweater and for being drafted 5th overall he often played more like a late 1st/2nd rounder.

We probably stunted his development by rushing him into the league, but seeing Monahan taken right after him and be more impactful player, yeah that stung.

Dude was really close to being labeled as a bust in 2016. He turned it around but he's also in many ways a perfect epitome of why this team has not made the playoffs in 9 years. Soft, inconsistent, and shows up in spurts.

 

[DaveG]

I don’t think he’s ever going to be anywhere near his draft potential. He hasn’t even shown a flash of it.

That said, he’s a guy you wouldn’t feel terrible having as the 3rd best guy on your top line, next to star players. It’s entirely possible that Flames fans are crowing about their “top line winger” this time next year, with him having scored a bunch of points he didn’t necessarily create. I think $5M is pretty close to market price for that sort of player, even now.

Reminds me a lot of the Jordan Staal contract. People flipped out at the time because he got point-scorer money without being a point scorer. But as time goes by, it’s proven to be a fair deal for what he actually brings to a hockey team.

Yeah that was my thought honestly.

I've been getting a good laugh at Flames fans saying that Ryan's going to be their #4 center and projecting Lindholm as their #2. We all know how that song goes by now. The flip side of that is I can EASILY see Lindholm riding shotgun to Monahan and Gaudreau which IMHO means 60 point forward Elias Lindholm, even if he's flat out a passenger on that line.

 

[cptjeff]

Yeah, that's easily a million bucks too much for Lindholm. He's an okay scorer who brings very, very little else to the table. He's whatever defensively, has no physicality whatsoever, and his main virtue was that at center, he wasn't as concrete footed as Rask, so he could open up more space than Rask for his linemates. Not really a high bar, and I ain't paying $5 million for that unless he has a season that proves that bad coaching was 100% of what was holding him back.


On another note, with this Schmaltz talk, are we sure we would trust Darling around a guy whose name is a synonym for rendered chicken fat?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Some sad news, looks like Ray Emery has passed away...

 

[HisIceness]

Oh my God. That's horrible.

 

[cptjeff]

Well, that really sucks. Way too young.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Not seeing any confirmed reports on the Emery story yet.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not sure how confirmed / official this is.

Former NHL goalie Ray Emery dies in apparent drowning