Around the League Part 9: The Post-Tavareslyptic Hellscape

[MinJaBen]

Over/under on # of teams Elias plays for during this contract?

I'd take the over on 2.5.

Odds that one of those teams is us? I'm guessing greater than zero because Canes.

 

[Joe McGrath]

There’s nothing wrong with that contract. Lindholm’s floor is a useful utility forward who puts up about 40 points. That’s worth probably $4 mil on the open market. If he finally hits that next level this becomes an absolute steal of a contract.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't know if I would have loved that length, but for buying out several UFA years, it's fair even if he's roughly what we've seen.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I think Lindholm could make that contract a steal but not on a Bill Peters coached team

 

[Dishface]

As the years go on, Jordan Staal's contract inches more towards the mean of a middle six center.

 

[AeroFishOne]

One thing you can’t compare with Ferland and Lindholm is your getting a different type of player. We have plenty soft on the body scorers on this team. With Ferland your getting a guy that can play the rough game which this team has been missing for several years while also producing fairly well at the same time. If we can get another 20 goal year or so out of Ferland while playing his game then I would much rather pay that price then what Lindholm offered. That’s just me though and I know some may disagree.

 

[cptjeff]

Right, which is why I think the contract stuff by Waddell was a smoke screen. They didn't want to commit to these guys long term, which is fine, but they didn't need to act like tough salary negotiations in mid June was why.

Why can't it be that Waddell was open to signing both Hanifin and Lindholm long term, but was a lot less sanguine about their production than they or their agents were? I'd have signed Lindholm long term at 3.5 million in a heartbeat. I would be very hesitant to sign him at all at 5 million. Refusing to pay players substantially more than they're worth does not make you cheap.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

One thing you can’t compare with Ferland and Lindholm is your getting a different type of player. We have plenty soft on the body scorers on this team. With Ferland your getting a guy that can play the rough game which this team has been missing for several years while also producing fairly well at the same time. If we can get another 20 goal year or so out of Ferland while playing his game then I would much rather pay that price then what Lindholm offered. That’s just me though and I know some may disagree.

I hope you're right, I just don't see us getting another 20+ goal season out of Ferland now that he's away from Gadreau and Monahan. I think his production will suffer a lot

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why can't it be that Waddell was open to signing both Hanifin and Lindholm long term, but was a lot less sanguine about their production than they or their agents were? I'd have signed Lindholm long term at 3.5 million in a heartbeat. I would be very hesitant to sign him at all at 5 million. Refusing to pay players substantially more than they're worth does not make you cheap.

I didn't think it was about being cheap, I think they wanted to shake things up and move some guys they felt had value, but weren't completely sold on. That's fine as both those players have their warts, but they made it a point to talk about the contract excessively with the press and it was still early June as if to say "we had to trade them because their contract demands were too egregious". Negotiations take time and there was no hurry to be forcing the issue IMO. Lindholm got about what I'd expect he'd get in this market so if the Canes weren't willing to pay market value, then so be it, but that's not on the player or his agent.

None of us will know for sure, but I think it was more of a smoke-screen in that regards.

I'm not complaining about the trade though, just talking about the contract negotiations statements.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm just hoping Ferland will be a Scott Walker type for us. If he plays with our skill guys, which I'd do, I think he can put to another solid offensive season. If he plays more third line minutes, I still think he can be another McGinn for us, which is solid enough.

 

[geehaad]

In terms of using the body, I have a feeling Ferland will disappoint in the regular season, but would come alive in the playoffs if they get there.

 

[emptyNedder]

I think Lindholm could make that contract a steal but not on a Bill Peters coached team

I am a little concerned that Peters becomes a lesser hockey version of Belichick. They both assisted under a well-respected head coach. Both are really committed to their system. Both had less than successful first runs as a head coach.

I don't wish BP any failure, though I also don't want him to win multiple Stanley Cups. But I do have a suspicion that he will find more success in Calgary. With that success, I expect Lindholm to be better such that this contract looks like a great deal in 2-3 years.

 

[emptyNedder]

In terms of using the body, I have a feeling Ferland will disappoint in the regular season, but would come alive in the playoffs if they get there.

My guess is that Ferland has been oversold because of how he scored the first half of last season. I expect he will be a physical player who puts up 10g/15a. Actually that would be decent as he shouldn't be on the power play because Svechnikov, Zykov, and Necas all need their share of time.

 

[Joe McGrath]

In terms of using the body, I have a feeling Ferland will disappoint in the regular season, but would come alive in the playoffs if they get there.

IDK, new team, contract year. Seems like a good time to showcase everything you’ve got.

 

[geehaad]

IDK, new team, contract year. Seems like a good time to showcase everything you’ve got.

Agreed, but 82 games is a long time to have your body in harm's way. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. It just seems to me that he's a physical grinder whose true value is in being a bitch to play against because of his physical nature, but after finding scoring success last year, I wonder if he's got it in his mind that he's a scorer. Who knows, maybe he truly is.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Agreed, but 82 games is a long time to have your body in harm's way. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. It just seems to me that he's a physical grinder whose true value is in being a ***** to play against because of his physical nature, but after finding scoring success last year, I wonder if he's got it in his mind that he's a scorer. Who knows, maybe he truly is.

You’re right. It’s up to him. Maybe they can bring in Chad to illustrate to him what your career looks like as a grinder who thinks he’s a scorer and stops playing physically.

 

[geehaad]

You’re right. It’s up to him. Maybe they can bring in Chad to illustrate to him what your career looks like as a grinder who thinks he’s a scorer and stops playing physically.

Yeah. Definitely extended Chad's career about 500%.

 

[DaveG]

My guess is that Ferland has been oversold because of how he scored the first half of last season. I expect he will be a physical player who puts up 10g/15a. Actually that would be decent as he shouldn't be on the power play because Svechnikov, Zykov, and Necas all need their share of time.

And you know what, we need a guy like that who can chip in that kind of stat line from the 3rd/4th line while playing that kind of nasty physical game that the team (outside of McGinn) simply lacks. If anything I think McGinn truly shows himself to be our new Scott Walker this year, a guy that can consistently put up a 20/20 type stat line that's good for a handful of fights per season and has no qualms about just laying a physical beating on someone cleanly and entirely within the rules of the game.

 

[bleedgreen]

We really need to sign Ferland for this to be a good trade for us, even if he isn't a big offensive guy. He's a big part of the "culture change" to me, he plays the physical game we lacked and is a "fighter" in all aspects of hockey - not just fisticuffs. Hamilton hasn't been a winner, and is obviously known to be introverted. I'm fine with all that but if they were looking for culture change in the room then Ferland is the guy they traded for.

 

[CandyCanes]

I wonder if Canes & Ferland have talked contract extension already.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I thought I read that Ferland was a guy that the Canes really wanted in this deal so I would think they would really want him for more than 1 season.

 

[GoldiFox]

I’d like to see what a contract year, motivated Ferland coming off a career season can do. Would be more interested in paying up for results than potential unless it is a Calle Jarnkrok (multi year x $2 million) type deal.

 

[bleedgreen]

Wouldn’t make sense to add him otherwise. They probably could’ve pushed for Bennett.

 

[Stickpucker]

I had an interesting thought the other day:

What if instead of doing the Calgary trade, Hanifin got dealt, with say, a 2nd pick, to BUF for ROR. Assuming we still end up with de Haan...(maybe not if he doesn't have the prospect of playing opposite Hamilton...)

Teravainen-ROR-Aho
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Svechnikov-Necas-Lindholm
Skinner-Rask-Martinook

Slavin-Pesce
de Haan-Faulk
Fleury-TVR

Does that team look better that what we have now? Down the middle, there's no contest...but there's a gamble on Faulk being better than last year and Skinner probably is still on the block...

I was thinking along the same lines. A few small nags. Aho plays more on the LW, TT on the RW. Svech is also a RW.

Gives us RW of TT, Svech, Lindholm, and Williams.....a bit of a waste unless Lindy played C here but with ROR, Staal, Necas, and Rask not sure he would've gotten that season at C we wanted to see.

I don't think the trade was about $$ but about moving out people who are "underachievers". Either way we look at it we had high hopes for Hanifin and Lindy and they let us down.

 

[Stickpucker]

I am a little concerned that Peters becomes a lesser hockey version of Belichick. They both assisted under a well-respected head coach. Both are really committed to their system. Both had less than successful first runs as a head coach.

I don't wish BP any failure, though I also don't want him to win multiple Stanley Cups. But I do have a suspicion that he will find more success in Calgary. With that success, I expect Lindholm to be better such that this contract looks like a great deal in 2-3 years.

I'm having a hard time predicting what will happen in Calgary next year.

On one hand Carolina actually outscored Calgary last year....funnily Calgary fans think their forward core is much >>> ours. I don't see anything that special after Gadreau and we are much deeper on the wings. Some might guess that their scoring will go down under Peters. Them swapping Dougie for Hanny will make them weaker offensively and defensively on the back end for a couple of years. I think that Smith will have his worst year as Peters system will leave him out to dry on 2 on 1s repeatedly and I would be surprised if he breaks .910 next season.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Calgary finishes with 80 points next year. This year they scored 218 goals I think next year roughly 208. Their 248 ga goes up to 260.