Around The League; Offseason

[MarkT]

Some heads should drop for this and probably will. Truly sad situation.

If the owner had any moral cojones, he would fire everyone who works for the team who was with the team at the time, then instruct the new GM to trade any players on the roster from that era. That's honestly the only way anyone should be able to feel okay with cheering for that franchise. I can tell you this is one of those few things that would make me stop cheering for the Avs (ignore the Carey Price avatar - I'm still pissed at Bednar for playing Nemeth).

 

[missionAvs]

I don't know why you're telling me that nobody is victim-blaming, considering I never accused anyone of that. My main issue is the lack of empathy I have seen. I understand that many people are raised to respond to situations like this with violence. I personally was not raised this way although I responded to bullying with violence many times, so I understand the urge. The problem is there are people in this thread who seem to believe the only acceptable response to this situation is violence, and are then judging the player for not taking this avenue. To me, that smacks of a lack of empathy.

What I'm trying to explain is that for many people, "nothing comes above personal health of yourself and your family, no matter what", but not everyone ranks personal health of themselves as high. I think based on what happened, we can assume being a pro hockey player was more important to the victim than anything that happened to him personally. Despite how people in this thread want to describe that, it is not a character flaw or something worthy of criticizing him for. Just because he had different priorities and values than someone else doesn't mean that person is better than him.

I'm not including you in that, except that last paragraph. Honestly, to me, all the looking for what he should or could have done instead comes across as attempts to either place blame on him for what happened (in addition to Alritch) or in some way lessen how much support or compassion he should be given. The darker motive though might be to infer that he actually wanted to go along with Aldrich, and thus isn't even a victim after all, but a willing participant - after all, if he didn't want to do it, he should have fought back or "found some other way to remove himself from that immediate situation and seek assistance", right?

In a different context, say in a discussion about self-defence or how to respond to sexual coercion, these kinds of comments might be appropriate. But as the primary comment in response to a story of someone being sexually assaulted? Even if you have perfectly noble motives, you can't blame anyone for accusing you of victim-blaming or other negative motives.

I never meant to accuse you of saying people are victim blaming so I'm sorry if my message came across as such. The main point of quoting you is that I don't believe people to be necessarily judging the player as weak or lesser. It's just that people have different ways of perceiving stimuli and how to react to them. You said it yourself, not everyone values there own personal health and will routinely put things above that in order to achieve some other motive/goal. My argument wasn't meant to judge people of that mindset moreso to promote that people SHOULD be more willing to put their own well being above other things. Like I mentioned before though, that's easier said than done and one can only hope that said player is able to overcome any psychological/emotional trauma that came as a result of this.

These situations unfortunately always have an unfortunate ending but the result is always the same and involves trying to educate people that they are important and that they do have the strength to survive and overcome a situation like the one presented here. Should the player have kicked the coaches ass or not shouldn't be the question asked here because that's extremely subjective. I think the failure here is that there was a player out into a vulnerable position and a POS took advantage of it. Unfortunately, the organization seemed to turn their heads which leads to the next issue and that's making sure these kinds of things don't happen by doing our best to educate people that they can overcome. I'm of the opinion that you are your own best advocate/defender. Some people don't believe that or have some barrier to it and that's what needs to be overcome. Obviously this doesn't hold true in some situations (children/elderly/special needs, etc) but for the most part that's the message is sent out and that I feel makes the biggest difference to get people to overcome.

Anyways, that's my two cents and like I said, the Hawks and that shitbag should get all the punishment in the world. Truly despicable stuff.

 

[CharlesPuck]

I don't know why you're telling me that nobody is victim-blaming, considering I never accused anyone of that. My main issue is the lack of empathy I have seen. I understand that many people are raised to respond to situations like this with violence. I personally was not raised this way although I responded to bullying with violence many times, so I understand the urge. The problem is there are people in this thread who seem to believe the only acceptable response to this situation is violence, and are then judging the player for not taking this avenue. To me, that smacks of a lack of empathy.

What I'm trying to explain is that for many people, "nothing comes above personal health of yourself and your family, no matter what", but not everyone ranks personal health of themselves as high. I think based on what happened, we can assume being a pro hockey player was more important to the victim than anything that happened to him personally. Despite how people in this thread want to describe that, it is not a character flaw or something worthy of criticizing him for. Just because he had different priorities and values than someone else doesn't mean that person is better than him.

I'm not including you in that, except that last paragraph. Honestly, to me, all the looking for what he should or could have done instead comes across as attempts to either place blame on him for what happened (in addition to Alritch) or in some way lessen how much support or compassion he should be given. The darker motive though might be to infer that he actually wanted to go along with Aldrich, and thus isn't even a victim after all, but a willing participant - after all, if he didn't want to do it, he should have fought back or "found some other way to remove himself from that immediate situation and seek assistance", right?

In a different context, say in a discussion about self-defence or how to respond to sexual coercion, these kinds of comments might be appropriate. But as the primary comment in response to a story of someone being sexually assaulted? Even if you have perfectly noble motives, you can't blame anyone for accusing you of victim-blaming or other negative motives.

Good post and I will add that safety is a larger picture. It's easy to say he should have fought back or called the cops etc. But that ignores the larger impact these sexual assaults have. The victim has to look out for his long term ability to provide and he was probably banking on an NHL career for that. In order to be safe, we need the income to provide that security. If he fights back, which assumes his flight/fight/freeze response allowed that, he could have damaged his ability to keep himself safe for the long term. It's the same issue with a person in power abusing an intern. The victim wants/needs that career to provide for themselves and keep a level of living that allows them to have personal safety.


The bigger issue with a sexual assault is the psychological manipulation the attacker has over the victim. People often think that in all cases the victim used their raw strength and muscle to control the victim. It's often more psychological than physical power though that the attacker will use. Also, sexual assault usually has nothing to do with sexual wants, but rather wanting power. The attacker abused the victim to exhort power and control over him. Those psychological manipulations will wear away at the psyche of the victim and cause them to do whatever keeps them "safe."

 

[MarkT]

I never meant to accuse you of saying people are victim blaming so I'm sorry if my message came across as such. The main point of quoting you is that I don't believe people to be necessarily judging the player as weak or lesser. It's just that people have different ways of perceiving stimuli and how to react to them. You said it yourself, not everyone values there own personal health and will routinely put things above that in order to achieve some other motive/goal. My argument wasn't meant to judge people of that mindset moreso to promote that people SHOULD be more willing to put their own well being above other things. Like I mentioned before though, that's easier said than done and one can only hope that said player is able to overcome any psychological/emotional trauma that came as a result of this.

These situations unfortunately always have an unfortunate ending but the result is always the same and involves trying to educate people that they are important and that they do have the strength to survive and overcome a situation like the one presented here. Should the player have kicked the coaches ass or not shouldn't be the question asked here because that's extremely subjective. I think the failure here is that there was a player out into a vulnerable position and a POS took advantage of it. Unfortunately, the organization seemed to turn their heads which leads to the next issue and that's making sure these kinds of things don't happen by doing our best to educate people that they can overcome. I'm of the opinion that you are your own best advocate/defender. Some people don't believe that or have some barrier to it and that's what needs to be overcome. Obviously this doesn't hold true in some situations (children/elderly/special needs, etc) but for the most part that's the message is sent out and that I feel makes the biggest difference to get people to overcome.

Anyways, that's my two cents and like I said, the Hawks and that shitbag should get all the punishment in the world. Truly despicable stuff.

That's all great, but nobody in this thread has indicated in any sense that they themselves are victims of sexual assault or are in need of advice about what to do if it happens to them. Since this is a hockey forum, it seems to me the appropriate conversation is to discuss how this affects the Blackhawks, the NHL, and hockey in general, along with a healthy dose of shock/condemnation. I see no reason or need for a discussion on the best ways to deal with situations like this, especially since it's nearly impossible to do so without (inadvertently?) casting the victim's actual behavior in a negative light.

Good post and I will add that safety is a larger picture. It's easy to say he should have fought back or called the cops etc. But that ignores the larger impact these sexual assaults have. The victim has to look out for his long term ability to provide and he was probably banking on an NHL career for that. In order to be safe, we need the income to provide that security. If he fights back, which assumes his flight/fight/freeze response allowed that, he could have damaged his ability to keep himself safe for the long term. It's the same issue with a person in power abusing an intern. The victim wants/needs that career to provide for themselves and keep a level of living that allows them to have personal safety.


The bigger issue with a sexual assault is the psychological manipulation the attacker has over the victim. People often think that in all cases the victim used their raw strength and muscle to control the victim. It's often more psychological than physical power though that the attacker will use. Also, sexual assault usually has nothing to do with sexual wants, but rather wanting power. The attacker abused the victim to exhort power and control over him. Those psychological manipulations will wear away at the psyche of the victim and cause them to do whatever keeps them "safe."

Well said.

 

[Mr Zappalanche]

How the org is handling this is even more astonishing in 2021... You'd think they'd at least attempt to be PC, or have a semblance of a soul.

Anyone see their excuse for keeping their name and logo?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that name or logo.

 

[missionAvs]

That's all great, but nobody in this thread has indicated in any sense that they themselves are victims of sexual assault or are in need of advice about what to do if it happens to them. Since this is a hockey forum, it seems to me the appropriate conversation is to discuss how this affects the Blackhawks, the NHL, and hockey in general, along with a healthy dose of shock/condemnation. I see no reason or need for a discussion on the best ways to deal with situations like this, especially since it's nearly impossible to do so without (inadvertently?) casting the victim's actual behavior in a negative light.



Well said.

Hey I'm with ya. This is a hockey forum. I was never inferring that anyone here has posted that they themselves have found themselves to be a victim of a situation like the one here. I don't even think the player's dealing of the situation is wrong here, it's just the way it went down. I also see no reason to have the discussion of how the player should have reacted here but it's part of the discussion being had so I wanted to share my thoughts. I think we can all come to terms that the Hawks and the coach deserve every measure of punishment that's hopefully coming them. Hawks owner should just nut up and can everyone.

 

[Pokecheque]

Coach Quenneville was looking the other way?

I have a ton of respect for Q so this leaves me conflicted. I don't give a shit about the rest of them but Q, I like. But if indeed he knew and said nothing (and I have a VERY HARD TIME believing he didn't) then he needs to pay along with the rest of them.

Toews is the whiniest little bitch I've ever seen on skates (and that counts Tonya Harding) so he and Kane can go to hell.

 

[MarkT]

I think an interesting part of this is how much blame does each person on the Hawks at the time really deserve?
There's the people in the meeting with Vincent - they had direct knowledge of the situation and we can probably assume they would know the whole story of how this was handled.
Then there's the rest of the organisation and the players. We know based on reporting that it was widely known; an "open secret", so I don't think anyone can claim total ignorance. But since the coach was fired soon after all this happened (not soon enough), most if not all of them probably assumed that management handled it properly. The way guys like Sopel have responded makes me suspect they assumed Aldritch was fired with cause and certainly not given a positive reference.
But then there's this accusation of the players bullying the player(s) afterward, so that's a whole separate thing to be outraged over.

 

[Pokecheque]

Seriously, this.

I feel really bad for the dude but wtf. You’ve gotta be pretty weak to just let a dude whip his dick out and tell you to suck it without smashing his f***ing face in.

I just imagine myself in a closed door situation and some coach did that… good lord he would never walk again.

Yeah you talk a big game but truth of the matter is you've likely never been in a situation where someone was holding a weapon and threatening you in an enclosed area. You'd be like most people and probably shitting your pants. I know I would be.

What people are also forgetting is that not only did he threaten violence against this man (WITH A GODDAMNED BASEBALL BAT) he threatened his career as well. I realize a bunch of you Internet Tough Guys are probably thinking nothing is worth that, but based on how much the team went out of its way to cover for him, they would've taken Aldrich's side and that player would've been drummed out quicker than Jonathan Toews screams at the ref between whistles.

I work in mental health where people come in all the time dealing with trauma of this nature. It happens way more often than people think, and I imagine those people are not only dealing with the obvious trauma of sexual assault but also beating themselves up as to what they would have or could have done differently in those situations.

Show some f***ing sympathy. No one is impressed by your machismo.

 

[CharlesPuck]

Yeah you talk a big game but truth of the matter is you've likely never been in a situation where someone was holding a weapon and threatening you in an enclosed area. You'd be like most people and probably shitting your pants. I know I would be.

What people are also forgetting is that not only did he threaten violence against this man (WITH A GODDAMNED BASEBALL BAT) he threatened his career as well. I realize a bunch of you Internet Tough Guys are probably thinking nothing is worth that, but based on how much the team went out of its way to cover for him, they would've taken Aldrich's side and that player would've been drummed out quicker than Jonathan Toews screams at the ref between whistles.

I work in mental health where people come in all the time dealing with trauma of this nature. It happens way more often than people think, and I imagine those people are not only dealing with the obvious trauma of sexual assault but also beating themselves up as to what they would have or could have done differently in those situations.

Show some f***ing sympathy. No one is impressed by your machismo.

Exactly and the the trauma is a huge part of these assaults.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Yeah you talk a big game but truth of the matter is you've likely never been in a situation where someone was holding a weapon and threatening you in an enclosed area. You'd be like most people and probably shitting your pants. I know I would be.

What people are also forgetting is that not only did he threaten violence against this man (WITH A GODDAMNED BASEBALL BAT) he threatened his career as well. I realize a bunch of you Internet Tough Guys are probably thinking nothing is worth that, but based on how much the team went out of its way to cover for him, they would've taken Aldrich's side and that player would've been drummed out quicker than Jonathan Toews screams at the ref between whistles.

I work in mental health where people come in all the time dealing with trauma of this nature. It happens way more often than people think, and I imagine those people are not only dealing with the obvious trauma of sexual assault but also beating themselves up as to what they would have or could have done differently in those situations.

Show some f***ing sympathy. No one is impressed by your machismo.

Do me a favor.

I don’t make assumptions about you, you don’t make assumptions about me.

Cool?

 

[Pokecheque]

Do me a favor.

I don’t make assumptions about you, you don’t make assumptions about me.

Cool?

Then don't make an ass of yourself online and belittle a victim of sexual abuse.

Cool?

 

[Islay1989]

Who about what a guy who racially abused the captain of his favorite soccer club about other people's sensitivity.

 

[Balthazar]

Just to make something clear here it's perfectly ok to say that you'd not suck a dick because you fear for your career. Most guys wouldn't.

I see people wondering why an adult hockey player had unvoluntary sex with another man (and it appears that it happened more that once) and it's a perfectly legit question.

The answer to that question is predators know how to pick their victims. That shit wouldn't have worked on 90% of the rest of the team but that particular victim was vulnerable and he took advantage of it. That's what predators do.

Stop wondering why he didn't kick his ass.

 

[Pokecheque]

If the owner had any moral cojones, he would fire everyone who works for the team who was with the team at the time, then instruct the new GM to trade any players on the roster from that era. That's honestly the only way anyone should be able to feel okay with cheering for that franchise. I can tell you this is one of those few things that would make me stop cheering for the Avs (ignore the Carey Price avatar - I'm still pissed at Bednar for playing Nemeth).

Rocky Wirtz was chief among the enablers here. He needs to pay a steep price as well.

Whatever the case, if this does not at least end with Stan Bowman resigning then there is absolutely no justice in this world. Thing is, I think it'll stop there and we won't see others punished, but more importantly we won't see reforms put in place that don't allow this to happen ever again.

This is not an isolated incident. There are still stories about what happened when Harold Ballard owned the Maple Leafs, and it wasn't that long ago that a Chicago-area youth hockey coach was finally brought to justice only after many, many, MANY years where the organizations and parents who knew damned well what kind of monster he is, and yet still let him have free and easy access to children.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you exactly who needs to pay and how much each of them should pay...but at the very least I sure as f*** hope they remove Aldrich's name from the Cup.

 

[Pokecheque]

Just to make something clear here it's perfectly ok to say that you'd not suck a dick because you fear for your career. Most guys wouldn't.

I see people wondering why an adult hockey player had unvoluntary sex with another man (and it appears that it happened more that once) and it's a perfectly legit question.

The answer to that question is predators know how to pick their victims. That shit wouldn't have worked on 90% of the rest of the team but that particular victim was vulnerable and he took advantage of it. That's what predators do.

Stop wondering why he didn't kick his ass.

Spot-on post.

 

[Metallo]

Just to make something clear here it's perfectly ok to say that you'd not suck a dick because you fear for your career. Most guys wouldn't.

I see people wondering why an adult hockey player had unvoluntary sex with another man (and it appears that it happened more that once) and it's a perfectly legit question.

The answer to that question is predators know how to pick their victims. That shit wouldn't have worked on 90% of the rest of the team but that particular victim was vulnerable and he took advantage of it. That's what predators do.

Stop wondering why he didn't kick his ass.

My guess is John Doe is gay. That’s the leverage Aldrich had. I don’t think a video coach has enough pull to do that much on the hockey side.

 

[S E P H]

My guess is John Doe is gay. That’s the leverage Aldrich had. I don’t think a video coach has enough pull to do that much on the hockey side.

That’s something which makes more sense and he hasn’t come out/wants to keep things private.

 

[Pokecheque]

My guess is John Doe is gay. That’s the leverage Aldrich had. I don’t think a video coach has enough pull to do that much on the hockey side.

All due respect, let's not make that assumption.

Balthazar is absolutely right in that sexual predators will pick out and sometimes groom their targets. It's a process. Doesn't mean the person in question was closeted, there are other factors they take into consideration. There's a great scene in the movie "Spotlight" where a man who was victimized talks about the grooming process. They find things out like your willingness to keep a secret, whether or not you're okay with raucous or even lewd humor, etc. Sexuality is not necessarily a factor when the monster in question cares nothing about consent, and in fact might get a rise out of the fact that it's not consensual.

FTR all of us are more vulnerable to this sort of thing than we would ever want to believe.

 

[Metallo]

All due respect, let's not make that assumption.

Balthazar is absolutely right in that sexual predators will pick out and sometimes groom their targets. It's a process. Doesn't mean the person in question was closeted, there are other factors they take into consideration. There's a great scene in the movie "Spotlight" where a man who was victimized talks about the grooming process. They find things out like your willingness to keep a secret, whether or not you're okay with raucous or even lewd humor, etc. Sexuality is not necessarily a factor when the monster in question cares nothing about consent, and in fact might get a rise out of the fact that it's not consensual.

FTR all of us are more vulnerable to this sort of thing than we would ever want to believe.

Why not make that assumption? It’s probably the most obvious. There was leverage and I do believe it’s not hockey related or not all hockey related. So there is something else at play.

 

[Metallo]

Not a legal expert so I’ll ask: Why is the plaintiff John Doe now and when will he be identified?

 

[Pokecheque]

Why not make that assumption? It’s probably the most obvious. There was leverage and I do believe it’s not hockey related or not all hockey related. So there is something else at play.

There's no real correlation between sexual orientation and sexual assault. Don't just assume that's what made him vulnerable. There could be other factors that weigh far more heavily than that.

Also, while I think Balthazar is right in what he says, there may not have been ANYTHING about the young man in question that made him more vulnerable than the others, other than the fact that he wasn't a star player with a big voice in the organization. It may have just been a crime of opportunity.

 

[Pokecheque]

Not a legal expert so I’ll ask: Why is the plaintiff John Doe now and when will he be identified?

If and when he wants to be.

 

[Zih]

I don't know why you're telling me that nobody is victim-blaming, considering I never accused anyone of that.

That was the fault of my dumb ass, sorry. I don't know why I felt the need to comment when you've been killing it this thread.

 

[Metallo]

There's no real correlation between sexual orientation and sexual assault. Don't just assume that's what made him vulnerable. There could be other factors that weigh far more heavily than that.

Also, while I think Balthazar is right in what he says, there may not have been ANYTHING about the young man in question that made him more vulnerable than the others, other than the fact that he wasn't a star player with a big voice in the organization. It may have just been a crime of opportunity.

What did he blackmail him about then?