Around the League delayed season edition

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KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Seeing as how this apparently went on for years, I blame the kid's parents as much as the kid himself.
If he grew up without parents, that kind of explains how he went down the wrong path.
I agree, but at some point you reach an age where some semblance or your own morals take over and you understand the difference between right and wrong. It isn't always by the age of 14 years old though, or even 17.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Well, this famously happened to those Harvard applicants who had their acceptance revoked for posting inappropriate things online. That wasn't even scholarships, just acceptance into the university.
Yes, and deemed as inappropriate by who? Certainly not anyone who advocates free speech, or considers those who disagree with them in any way to be human beings as well with their own hopes and aspirations.
 
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kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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I actually disagree with this move by the Coyotes, it's even worse. They already acknowledged he had a history and they wanted to help him improve. Now they're backing away from it on public backlash? Unless there's even more behind the scenes or Miller told them no, I don't care, how much more can this franchise f*** up?

I don't know, I think you're kind of playing both sides here now. If this was LA, I'd much rather the Kings acknowledge that they made a mistake by drafting him and choose to correct it swiftly and decisively.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
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Disagree. There have been plenty of other examples. Just ask Amy Cooper , who had a job at Franklin Templeton.
I'd consider that a white collar job

There's other examples as well
Some forms of social media have become a cancer in our society. I can think of no good reason to have a Facebook or Instagram account. If you are a relative or friend of mine and you want to send me a note or a cute picture of your kid, text it to me.

Oh, and I am not convinced that the storybook life you seem to be leading based on your social media posts is reality.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
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I don't know, I think you're kind of playing both sides here now. If this was LA, I'd much rather the Kings acknowledge that they made a mistake by drafting him and choose to correct it swiftly and decisively.

Like I said, if they're acting on new information, that's different.

But otherwise it's coming off as "sorry we got caught" just like Miller.

Their statement has their GM distancing himself from their draft even. They went from "we thought we could provide a stronger environment for him" to "f*** this kid" upon backlash is the appearance.
 

Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
Sep 13, 2018
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Some forms of social media have become a cancer in our society. I can think of no good reason to have a Facebook or Instagram account. If you are a relative or friend of mine and you want to send me a note or a cute picture of your kid, text it to me.

Oh, and I am not convinced that the storybook life you seem to be leading based on your social media posts is reality.
Indeed

Twitter being the absolute worst. Calling it is cesspool would actually be a compliment
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
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Like I said, if they're acting on new information, that's different.

But otherwise it's coming off as "sorry we got caught" just like Miller.

Their statement has their GM distancing himself from their draft even. They went from "we thought we could provide a stronger environment for him" to "f*** this kid" upon backlash is the appearance.

Exactly. On a scale of 1-10 for principled action, the Coyotes earn a zero on this one.
 
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kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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Like I said, if they're acting on new information, that's different.

But otherwise it's coming off as "sorry we got caught" just like Miller.

Their statement has their GM distancing himself from their draft even. They went from "we thought we could provide a stronger environment for him" to "f*** this kid" upon backlash is the appearance.

Exactly. On a scale of 1-10 for principled action, the Coyotes earn a zero on this one.

I totally agree, but it's still a good thing. I'd still rather Arizona distance themselves from this kid for the good of the NHL. The Coyotes look dumb for having drafted him and they look dumb for now cutting ties with him, but I'd rather they look dumb and do the right thing rather than the wrong thing. I think the boy's mother coming out and saying the issue still hasn't been resolved was the real nail in the coffin there.
 

Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
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for the good of the NHL..
This part of your post got me thinking.

Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

I wonder if Bettman played a role in the renouncing of this rights. The Yotes' tone totally changed over the last 24 hours.
The NHL is taking this very seriously as seriously as any other league and is VERY image conscious
 
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Statto

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Pawn, I agree with you often but not here. No matter the reason, denying someone the opportunity to play in the NHL prohibits him from competing at the highest level of his profession. That is undeniable.
He hasn’t been denied playing in the NHL, at this point at least. Arizona have relinquished their claim. He could still sign as a free agent at a later date, presumably he won’t get that chance unless he properly atones and changes. He still has an opportunity if he chooses to take it.
 
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KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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I totally agree, but it's still a good thing. I'd still rather Arizona distance themselves from this kid for the good of the NHL. The Coyotes look dumb for having drafted him and they look dumb for now cutting ties with him, but I'd rather they look dumb and do the right thing rather than the wrong thing. I think the boy's mother coming out and saying the issue still hasn't been resolved was the real nail in the coffin there.
For the good of the NHL? There was a guy who played for years in the NHL after being convicted of vehicular manslaughter. The NHL never even came close to getting the lid on his coffin.
 
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TwzKing

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So with the first pick (4th round), they threw it away. I'm curious if they didn't do their homework or if they knew and hoped it didn't make news?
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Pawn, I agree with you often but not here. No matter the reason, denying someone the opportunity to play in the NHL prohibits him from competing at the highest level of his profession. That is undeniable.

I appreciate the candor and class. I agree that he will have a much harder road ever playing in the NHL. You're right, that's undeniable.

But it's still not life ending. He can still have a very good life. He can still play professional hockey.

Not singling you out, but for all the people saying "he was only 14!" He is still only 18 to decide what he wants in life. Lousy circumstances and an error in judgment on my part (nothing criminal, but I was betrayed by someone reputable in my field I trusted with my life) killed my initial hopes of getting my first career. Two career changes later, I'm happy.

If his life is only valuable by his ability to play in the NHL, then he has two conversations to be had: the value of the life of others as well as the value of his own life.
 

bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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Disagree. There have been plenty of other examples. Just ask Amy Cooper , who had a job at Franklin Templeton.
I'd consider that a white collar job

There's other examples as well

She screwed herself and I wouldn't want that garbage representing my organization either.

But her actions caught the eyes and ears of the public who have made it known that such behavior will no longer be tolerated - all right smack in the middle of the public's outcry against these actions. Since she bent herself over, she's got to deal with the ramificstions of her ignorance.

Second chances are earned, not assumed.
 

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
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Some forms of social media have become a cancer in our society. I can think of no good reason to have a Facebook or Instagram account. If you are a relative or friend of mine and you want to send me a note or a cute picture of your kid, text it to me.

Oh, and I am not convinced that the storybook life you seem to be leading based on your social media posts is reality.

Guitar porn. Lots and lots of guitar porn.
 

RaymondReddington

Registered User
Sep 21, 2020
543
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Do something awful, there will be consequences.

I don't feel sorry for Voynov one bit. The ramifications of his actions damaged and embarrassed his employer. He hasn't been banned, other employers chose not to give a chance, which is their absolute right.
Bland, I think this is not fully accurate. But I am on a break from work and don't have the time right now so others in the know may want to chime in now.
He was absolutely banned from the NHL for awhile, even after he served his legal sentences if my memory is correct.
Also I am sure he was banned, also after serving his sentence, from international competition.
What was not taken into account in his situation is California would not let his wife drop the charges whereas athletes in other states have avoided this situation when charges were never filed or dropped.
My main point is that he has been made an example of in ways out of proportion to previous (and other) NHLers.
 

ScoreZeGoals

Boooorrrrriiiinnnnng
Jun 29, 2010
17,491
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They Coyotes are a mess, but it's easy to see what "changed" here. Ownership stepped in and said get rid of the kid. Some scouts/people who approved that pick will be fired in the not too distant future
 
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Stimpythecat

Registered User
Jul 1, 2015
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Bland, I think this is not fully accurate. But I am on a break from work and don't have the time right now so others in the know may want to chime in now.
He was absolutely banned from the NHL for awhile, even after he served his legal sentences if my memory is correct.
Also I am sure he was banned, also after serving his sentence, from international competition.
What was not taken into account in his situation is California would not let his wife drop the charges whereas athletes in other states have avoided this situation when charges were never filed or dropped.
My main point is that he has been made an example of in ways out of proportion to previous (and other) NHLers.

Voynov would have been suspended by the NHL. No question. He was not banned. US immigration tried to deport him so he left voluntarily instead. (Leaving voluntarily would make an eventual return easier than being deported.) He still got an US entry ban for a couple years. If a foreign citizen can't enter the US, he can't play NHL hockey.
 

Brodeur

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Feb 27, 2002
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So with the first pick (4th round), they threw it away. I'm curious if they didn't do their homework or if they knew and hoped it didn't make news?

They were aware but they (along with any other NHL team) didn't contact the victim's family. I think they were hoping the PR problem wouldn't arise to this level. If people on the prospects board were talking about this months before the draft, NHL teams certainly were aware. Seemed like a good chunk of teams were unimpressed after interviewing him and had him as a 'do not draft' according to Frank Seravelli. I just find it odd that it took three weeks after the Draft for the story to get traction in the mainstream.

From a pure talent perspective, some thought Miller had 2nd round ability so the Arizona scouts were thinking of it as a value pick. One article noted that Arizona's list under Chayka had Miller as a DND but something changed when new scouts were brought in with the regime change. I'd be curious how much input their incoming GM was aware of the list. Since they hired Bill Armstrong from St. Louis this close to the draft, there was an agreement that he would have no involvement with Arizona's picks. I like to picture a scenario where he was watching only to be angered by the pick that he didn't support privately but would now have to feign support publicly.
 
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kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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For the good of the NHL? There was a guy who played for years in the NHL after being convicted of vehicular manslaughter. The NHL never even came close to getting the lid on his coffin.

Is this a gotcha? The NHL has made a lot of mistakes in the past, let’s celebrate making the right choices moving forward.

I hope that the Meyer-Crothers family can find some justice knowing their child’s tormenter isn’t rewarded for his abhorrent behaviors.

I hope that Mitchell Miller learns that his actions have consequences and seeks help for why he felt and acted the way that he did. He’s still young, and I hope his actions don’t follow him for the rest of his life. I think forgiveness can be earned.

I hope the NHL and its teams continues to root out bad behavior. I supported Voynov returning to LA for a long time, but I’ve changed my opinion on that, too. Having a platform is a privilege that should not be taken lightly. Abusing that privilege should come with swift, decisive action. I’m not saying that Miller and Voynov are or will always be bad people, and I agree that they made mistakes and deserve second chances, but those chances don’t need to be in the National Hockey League. They can go back to school or find a job like the rest of us. Their hockey talent doesn’t grant them free passes to do bad things.

We aren’t cancelling anyone, they’re cancelling themselves, and that can’t be overstated.
 

Stimpythecat

Registered User
Jul 1, 2015
3,167
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No question that what Mitchell Miller did to Isaiah Meyer-Crothers was horrific and shocks the conscience. Others have more eloquently stated how disgusting those acts are.

I choose to believe Isaiah's mom when she says the taunting continued until at least 2 years ago. Why? Because the initial police report states that Mitchell Miller lied about committing those undefensible acts. That is a prior instance of material falsehood about the abuse. There is no such indication that the victim's family has ever lied.

While I believe in second chances, I also believe that such chances have to be earned. There is no indication whatsoever that Miller has earned it. By all accounts, he has consistently done only the minimum required of him by the criminal court. He has shown by all accounts no remorse. The court judge found that he was just sorry he was caught.

The letters he sent to all 31 teams was to me extremely self serving. Even the statement he had issued through the Coyotes still indicates a refusal to take full responsibility for his actions and the extreme harm he committed against Isaiah.

"I am extremely sorry about the bullying incident that occurred in 2016 while I was in eighth grade. I was young, immature and feel terrible about my actions. At the time, I did not understand the gravity of my actions and how they can affect other people.
“I have issued an apology to the family for my behavior, completed cultural diversity and sensitivity training and volunteered within my community with organizations such as Little Miracles. Over the past four years, I have had a lot of time to reflect and grow and I am very grateful to the Arizona Coyotes for taking a chance on me. I promise not to let them down.
“Moving forward, I want to be a leader for this cause and help end bullying and racism."

[emphasis added]

Coyotes prospect addresses disturbing racism, bullying incidents

I have emphasized a couple things.

First, to call it an incident completely minimizes what happened. He's not owning up to it. This was criminal abuse, racism, and assualt. It occurred over a period of 7-9 years. It was not a one off as the word "incident" implies. It was premeditated and would have continued had Miller not been caught.

Second, he states he wants to be a leader for the cause and to help end bullying and racism. Such a statement is on the surface plausible. But then to be a leader means fully acknowledging his actions, feeling remorse, and above all be willing to discuss such behavior and say how wrong it was.



From the above report, Miller was simply not willing to talk about what he had done to Isaiah. And it wasn't just one team saying this. It was multiple teams. Reports are at least 1/3 of teams had him as a Do Not Draft. That's not being a leader against bullying and racism.

Thus, his statement to me reads that he was simply telling people what he thought they wanted to hear.

Miller minimizing what he had done to Isaiah, showing no remorse, telling teams what he thinks they want to hear, writing letters to teams apologizing but not to Isaiah... It's not a 14 year old doing this but a fully legally recognized adult.

Miller is not being denied a career. He has any other fields he could go into. His hockey career isn't even over. Plenty of NHL players go through the college route and then sign on with a team after graduation. More players do it that way than are drafted in rounds 3-7.

He has those 4 years of college to prove has changed, to prove he has remorse, to do more than just the minimum required, to prove he is a better person than what he has shown so far.
 
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