Around the League 38: It was 3 to 1...

[tarheelhockey]

Fair enough. Curious what’s your thoughts on Patrice Bergeron making it to the HHOF?

He’s in the Dave Keon class of players. Not just the five Selkes, but also being a Triple Gold guy (with 6 gold medals in 5 different major world tournaments, so more than just Triple really) and being the soul of the Bruins during a very long stretch of success. When the NHL did their All Decade team for the 2010s they had him on the second line and nobody thought that was crazy. It will make him look better when he retires just as the Bruins fall off. He doesn’t check every single box (won’t hit 500 goals for example) but he’s become what Toews was hyped to be. Like an Yzerman he has such a universal level of respect that it’s hard to imagine anyone voting against him, so his induction will be a rubber stamp.

 

[ndp]

He’s in the Dave Keon class of players. Not just the five Selkes, but also being a Triple Gold guy (with 6 gold medals in 5 different major world tournaments, so more than just Triple really) and being the soul of the Bruins during a very long stretch of success. When the NHL did their All Decade team for the 2010s they had him on the second line and nobody thought that was crazy. It will make him look better when he retires just as the Bruins fall off. He doesn’t check every single box (won’t hit 500 goals for example) but he’s become what Toews was hyped to be. Like an Yzerman he has such a universal level of respect that it’s hard to imagine anyone voting against him, so his induction will be a rubber stamp.

While I think it’s somewhat of a minor stat, when looking up both players stats for comparison I was kind of shocked at Rod’s career -39 vs Bergeron’s +289. That’s a pretty staggering difference.

I imagine if you asked 10 different people not named Hank 9/10 would take Bergeron if being forced to pick between the two. I’m personally taking Bergeron 10/10 times.

I think based solely off some of the other, what I would consider borderline HOF members, that Rod should probably be included. But I also see the case for having him in the “hall of very, very good” category.

 

[AD Skinner]

Bergeron might get in just on the strength of being the only likable bruin for like a decade until pastrnak came along

 

[Derailed75]

While I think it’s somewhat of a minor stat, when looking up both players stats for comparison I was kind of shocked at Rod’s career -39 vs Bergeron’s +289. That’s a pretty staggering difference.

I imagine if you asked 10 different people not named Hank 9/10 would take Bergeron if being forced to pick between the two. I’m personally taking Bergeron 10/10 times.

I think based solely off some of the other, what I would consider borderline HOF members, that Rod should probably be included. But I also see the case for having him in the “hall of very, very good” category.

Eh, Rod's plus minus is directly tied to the fact the Karmanos only really spent money on a few seasons

 

[tarheelhockey]

Eh, Rod's plus minus is directly tied to the fact the Karmanos only really spent money on a few seasons

Surprisingly, he was also a net-minus player in Philly. The Flyers weren’t good in the early 90s, despite having a bunch of “name” players on paper. The only seasons of his career where Rod had a strong +/- were his rookie year in St Louis and ‘96 when the Flyers were firing on all cylinders.

I don’t put any weight at all into +/-, though. It’s just a very circumstantial stat.

 

[Derailed75]

Surprisingly, he was also a net-minus player in Philly. The Flyers weren’t good in the early 90s, despite having a bunch of “name” players on paper. The only seasons of his career where Rod had a strong +/- were his rookie year in St Louis and ‘96 when the Flyers were firing on all cylinders.

I don’t put any weight at all into +/-, though. It’s just a very circumstantial stat.

So like most players he only had a good +/- when he was on a good team.


Not surprisingly the Canes only had 2 players this year that finished with a - number. Good teams out score their opponents the +/- stat is absolute trash, unless you want to know if the team a guy is on is good or not.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The reasons why a player shouldnt be in the HHOF articles was written for the Athletic.

For Rod: second liners shouldnt make the HHOF (admits one is in there and they shouldnt be) and the only time he was a top 10 finalist for the Selke were the 2 times he won it. Basically not enough quality seasons to get in.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So like most players he only had a good +/- when he was on a good team.


Not surprisingly the Canes only had 2 players this year that finished with a - number. Good teams out score their opponents the +/- stat is absolute trash, unless you want to know if the team a guy is on is good or not.

Exactly. At some point they’ll stop publishing +/-, but today is not that day.

 

[Derailed75]

The reasons why a player shouldnt be in the HHOF articles was written for the Athletic.

For Rod: second liners shouldnt make the HHOF (admits one is in there and they shouldnt be) and the only time he was a top 10 finalist for the Selke were the 2 times he won it. Basically not enough quality seasons to get in.

In retort. This would make him 130ish all time as he is on the list of 30 players snubbed from the top 100 of all time.

NHL Top 100: 30 Debatable Omissions That Narrowly Missed Out

NHL Top 100: The Debate Has Begun Over Those Who Weren't Named to the Top 100, Here are 30 Names That Either Deserved to Hear Their Name Called or...

puckprose.com

Wiki says there 293 players in the HOF. So Rod being around 130 in the top 100 of all time puts him in with ease

 

[Lempo]

Exactly. At some point they’ll stop publishing +/-, but today is not that day.

Today is the day when ELC players with individually negotiated Performance Bonuses get up to $250.000 for the category of:

Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) forwards* on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

* or defensemen if you play that position

 

[tarheelhockey]

Today is the day when ELC players with individually negotiated Performance Bonuses get up to $250.000 for the category of:

Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) forwards* on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

* or defensemen if you play that position

Man, what a good reason to leap onto the bench if the other team gets a breakaway.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Continuing the HOF discussion: which of the players listed below should be in the Hall:

 

[tarheelhockey]

Depends on when they played. 484 goal guy would be the obvious choice, but 484 in this era is a lot more impressive than 484 for an 80s player.

Of course it also depends a lot on their defensive and playoff resume.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Depends on when they played. 484 goal guy would be the obvious choice, but 484 in this era is a lot more impressive than 484 for an 80s player.

Of course it also depends a lot on their defensive and playoff resume.

Only the first one won the SC but yet the other 3 are in the HOF (and 2 of them played in the post expansion/higher scoring era). 2 of 3 played in Canadian cities, Toronto & Ottawa which I believe helped

RBA
Sittler
Alfredsson
Federko

(Being an old person, I've seen all 4 play quite often.)

 

[DaveG]

Depends on when they played. 484 goal guy would be the obvious choice, but 484 in this era is a lot more impressive than 484 for an 80s player.

Of course it also depends a lot on their defensive and playoff resume.

beat me to it. I take the numbers of someone that played the vast majority of their career in the early expansion era and the 80s with a grain of salt compared to someone that played in the Dead Puck Era. That said Sittler still has the most impressive stat of the group even given that (484 goals in under 1100 games is pretty f***ing impressive no matter when you played).

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Post-season awards are an antiquated notion anyway. A product from before widespread television, where the people who watched most/all of the games and talked with others who also watched most/all games of different teams were the media.

Chip Alexander gets a vote. I have nothing against him, but he isn't high on the list of people I go to if I want a ranking of the best defensive forwards in the game.

Honestly the All Star Game is also antiquated, but that's morphed into the yearly NHL Festival, which is awesome.

 

[Chrispy]

Post-season awards are an antiquated notion anyway. A product from before widespread television, where the people who watched most/all of the games and talked with others who also watched most/all games of different teams were the media.

Chip Alexander gets a vote. I have nothing against him, but he isn't high on the list of people I go to if I want a ranking of the best defensive forwards in the game.

Honestly the All Star Game is also antiquated, but that's morphed into the yearly NHL Festival, which is awesome.

On the one hand, I agree it's a fun celebration.

Then I realize that 20 years from now, someone is going to be going through Andre Svechnikov's HOF resume and argue "He was the NHL's Fastest Skater!"

So there's a downside to the spectacle as well.

 

[tarheelhockey]

On the one hand, I agree it's a fun celebration.

Then I realize that 20 years from now, someone is going to be going through Andre Svechnikov's HOF resume and argue "He was the NHL's Fastest Skater!"

So there's a downside to the spectacle as well.

“Gather round, children, and I will tell you tales of Svech… the man who was faster than McDavid!”

 

[WreckingCrew]

“Gather round, children, and I will tell you tales of Svech… the man who was faster than McDavid!”

"but slower than poor snubbed Marty Nachos"

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Habs re-signed Monahan for another year.

Glad he’s not an option for us this summer.

 

[chaz4hockey]

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Pens, Knights would be impacted.

 

[HisIceness]

Habs re-signed Monahan for another year.

Glad he’s not an option for us this summer.

Just wait until July 1st, 2024

 

[cptjeff]

Continuing here.