Around the League 38: It was 3 to 1...

[Nikishin Go Boom]

man that OEL buyout is brutal. Years 3 and 4, the buyout will eat close to the entire cap growths for those years. ouch.

 

[DaveG]

Is it me or is it kinda effed up that Arizona loses a retention slot because Vancouver made a bad deal and had to buy out OEL?

I mean it's a retention slot they had given up for 4 years as is. The f***ed up part is now doubling that amount. I'm sure Arizona would prefer the whole thing the original 4 years as well since that helps with their cap floor situation.

 

[Lempo]

I mean it's a retention slot they had given up for 4 years as is. The f***ed up part is now doubling that amount. I'm sure Arizona would prefer the whole thing the original 4 years as well since that helps with their cap floor situation.

The CBA seems to very frank that this exactly is what would happen if a retained SPC gets bought out:

Under no circumstances may a Club: (1) Have in its Averaged Club Salary in any single League Year amounts attributable to more than three (3) Retained Salary SPCs for Players that the Club has Traded to other Club(s); or

In the event that a Retained Salary SPC is "bought out" or terminated, the resulting obligations (both Averaged Amount and Salary and Bonus) shall be divided as between the Clubs party to the Retained Salary Transaction(s) for that SPC on the same percentage basis as originally agreed upon in the Retained Salary Transaction.

It was clear from the get-go that should the SPC be bought out, there would be retained salary on the books for eight years instead of four. It was a known risk, and it realized. It's a bummer, but in no way is it a surprise.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The members of the committee are listed here:

HHOF | Selection Committee

Featuring the by-laws and complete list of current and former members of the Selection Committee.

www.hhof.com

Not a lot of names on that list who strike me as hardcore simps for Gary Bettman.

Honestly Rod’s just a very borderline candidate and we’d see this differently if he weren’t our guy.

If he is a borderline candidate, he f***ing shouldn't be. He captained a Stanley Cup winning team, won two Selkes and should have won a Conn Smythe, he's third all time in faceoff percentage in NHL history and would probably be top ten if he played right now, and he literally defines hockey for a team that has been in this market for a quarter century. He's also in pretty much every commercial that shows players lifting the Stanley Cup. If you can't make a case for that guy, it's because you're actively trying not to make a case for him.

The fact that he is not in the HoF is not only a slap in Rod's face, but a slap in the face to every fan in this market, period.

If he's not in the HoF, then what the f*** is the HoF for?

 

[Canes]

If he is a borderline candidate, he f***ing shouldn't be. He captained a Stanley Cup winning team, won two Selkes and should have won a Conn Smythe, he's third all time in faceoff percentage in NHL history and would probably be top ten if he played right now, and he literally defines hockey for a team that has been in this market for a quarter century. He's also in pretty much every commercial that shows players lifting the Stanley Cup. If you can't make a case for that guy, it's because you're actively trying not to make a case for him.

The fact that he is not in the HoF is not only a slap in Rod's face, but a slap in the face to every fan in this market, period.

If he's not in the HoF, then what the f*** is the HoF for?

Those superlatives are scraping the bottom of the barrel of what it means to be a HoFer. I'm not saying they don't mean anything at all, obviously they do. And I'm not saying there aren't less deserving guys already in. But the fact is that he's a borderline candidate, it sucks but it's true.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Those superlatives are scraping the bottom of the barrel of what it means to be a HoFer. I'm not saying they don't mean anything at all, obviously they do. And I'm not saying there aren't less deserving guys already in. But the fact is that he's a borderline candidate, it sucks but it's true.

Truth.

I support Rod for the HOF because I want our guy to get in, but if someone came to me with a player from another team and said:

- He captained our Cup run
- He won 2 Selkes
- I think he should have won the Smythe (even though he didn’t actually win it)
- His Cup lift was hilarious
- He ranks high in all time faceoff stats (which have been kept for like 25 of the NHL’s 105 years)
- He’s very important to our team

Then I would wish them good luck in their campaign for a guy who obviously isn’t going to make it.

Rod’s actual argument is that he put up OK stats while being a man’s-man type of player, was an authentic Selke type player with two actual wins, showed himself to be a real one while captaining a Cup run, and validated his leadership with instant success as a coach. That’s borderline HOF stuff. It isn’t guaranteed, though, and he needs to continue to pile it on as a coach if he wants a good shot.

 

[Joe McGrath]

The only reason Rod looks like he should be in hands down is because of Carbo and some other lesser players but those two are the most easily compared.

Mogilny still isn’t in and he belongs ahead of Rod for sure.

 

[HisIceness]

Rod is a rare example of an athlete who got better as he got older. Had he not experienced that ACL tear in 2008 he probably could have played at a high level until say, 2012?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Truth.

I support Rod for the HOF because I want our guy to get in, but if someone came to me with a player from another team and said:

- He captained our Cup run
- He won 2 Selkes
- I think he should have won the Smythe (even though he didn’t actually win it)
- His Cup lift was hilarious
- He ranks high in all time faceoff stats (which have been kept for like 25 of the NHL’s 105 years)
- He’s very important to our team

Then I would wish them good luck in their campaign for a guy who obviously isn’t going to make it.

Rod’s actual argument is that he put up OK stats while being a man’s-man type of player, was an authentic Selke type player with two actual wins, showed himself to be a real one while captaining a Cup run, and validated his leadership with instant success as a coach. That’s borderline HOF stuff. It isn’t guaranteed, though, and he needs to continue to pile it on as a coach if he wants a good shot.

I can accept the argument that his stats were borderline, but I would counter that literally nothing else about him is.

How many former players have won:
* A Stanley Cup as a player
* 2 major awards as a player
* A major award as a coach

As far as I can tell, the only other answer is Patrick Roy.

And the reason that Brindy is in all those Stanley Cup commercials is not because the moment was funny; it's because that moment was iconic.

Or, one might say, famous.

Again, I ask what the Hall of Fame is for, if the most famous player, by a very wide margin, for one of its 32 franchises, isn't in it.

 

[Svechhammer]

If Brindy played his entire career in a Canadian or O6 market, he'd have been elected to the Hall of Fame years ago. In the same vein, if Slavin was playing in a Canadian or O6 market, he would be an annual Norris Finalist, if not already won it by now.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

If Brindy played his entire career in a Canadian or O6 market, he'd have been elected to the Hall of Fame years ago. In the same vein, if Slavin was playing in a Canadian or O6 market, he would be an annual Norris Finalist, if not already won it by now.

I disagree, especially with the second point about Slavin. The Norris is always about points.

And Rod is literally Canadian. You think he’s getting shafted simply for playing for a southern team?

 

[HisIceness]

Brind'Amour needs to coach the Canes to (at the very least one) a Cup championship. If they continue to deny him after that well, yeah it'll be blatantly obvious.

So yeah, win a Cup.

 

[Svechhammer]

I disagree, especially with the second point about Slavin. The Norris is always about points.

And Rod is literally Canadian. You think he’s getting shafted simply for playing for a southern team?

If Slavin were in a Canadian market I think we'd see a push from hockey media to shift the focus of the Norris to better evaluate and honor defensive play.

And for Brindy I do think being the face of a team that exists in a market that the hockey world has resented since the move from Hartford absolutely plays a part in people going out of their way to dismiss him as a candidate.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I can accept the argument that his stats were borderline, but I would counter that literally nothing else about him is.

How many former players have won:
* A Stanley Cup as a player
* 2 major awards as a player
* A major award as a coach

As far as I can tell, the only other answer is Patrick Roy.

And the reason that Brindy is in all those Stanley Cup commercials is not because the moment was funny; it's because that moment was iconic.

Or, one might say, famous.

Again, I ask what the Hall of Fame is for, if the most famous player, by a very wide margin, for one of its 32 franchises, isn't in it.

Bill Barber is another — three postseason AS awards, three Stanley Cups, an Adams as coach… no HHOF.

More to the point though, take away the coaching and you end up with a long list of non-HOF’ers with a Cup and 2 awards to their name. An obvious example being Jere Lehtinen, who has 3 Selkes and is not in the HHOF.

So the distinguishing factor here is that he has also been a successful coach. This goes back to my post above — his best shot is to pile on the coaching accolades. The Adams win significantly boosted his chances. But he’s still stuck on having never won a third round game, and that matters in how he’s perceived. Which brings it all down to:

Brind'Amour needs to coach the Canes to (at the very least one) a Cup championship. If they continue to deny him after that well, yeah it'll be blatantly obvious.

So yeah, win a Cup.

 

[cptjeff]

Those superlatives are scraping the bottom of the barrel of what it means to be a HoFer. I'm not saying they don't mean anything at all, obviously they do. And I'm not saying there aren't less deserving guys already in. But the fact is that he's a borderline candidate, it sucks but it's true.

He, along with Gary Roberts also revolutionized fitness and training standards for hockey players and even pro athletes more broadly. He was at the bleeding edge of the kind of hyper scientific nutrition and fitness that we take totally for granted in pro sports today. Guys like Kessel used to be the norm, now they're the incredibly rare exception. And Brind'Amour was on the ragged knife edge of that change. Literally the only guy in the NHL doing anything close to what he did when he joined the league. Roberts only got into it when he had to rehab a serious injury that forced him to retire early. That alone has had a far bigger impact on the sport of hockey than even some of the guys who put up the biggest piles of stats in history. That off ice impact, on top of all of his on ice accomplishments, which are not small- one of the best two way players ever in the NHL, plus serious counting stats- should have made him an obvious first ballot pick.

 

[bleedgreen]

Bill Barber is another — three postseason AS awards, three Stanley Cups, an Adams as coach… no HHOF.

More to the point though, take away the coaching and you end up with a long list of non-HOF’ers with a Cup and 2 awards to their name. An obvious example being Jere Lehtinen, who has 3 Selkes and is not in the HHOF.

So the distinguishing factor here is that he has also been a successful coach. This goes back to my post above — his best shot is to pile on the coaching accolades. The Adams win significantly boosted his chances. But he’s still stuck on having never won a third round game, and that matters in how he’s perceived. Which brings it all down to:

The irony of the no third round wins holding him back is that his system probably gets us into the third round when we maybe don’t have a lineup that belongs that deep in the first place. He basically coached two understaffed teams into the third round.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Bill Barber is another — three postseason AS awards, three Stanley Cups, an Adams as coach… no HHOF.

Bill Barber was inducted into the HHOF in 1990, five years after his retirement. Thanks for making my point so perfectly for me.

If they continue to deny him after that well, yeah it'll be blatantly obvious.

It's already blatantly obvious.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Truth.

I support Rod for the HOF because I want our guy to get in, but if someone came to me with a player from another team and said:

- He captained our Cup run
- He won 2 Selkes
- I think he should have won the Smythe (even though he didn’t actually win it)
- His Cup lift was hilarious
- He ranks high in all time faceoff stats (which have been kept for like 25 of the NHL’s 105 years)
- He’s very important to our team

Then I would wish them good luck in their campaign for a guy who obviously isn’t going to make it.

Rod’s actual argument is that he put up OK stats while being a man’s-man type of player, was an authentic Selke type player with two actual wins, showed himself to be a real one while captaining a Cup run, and validated his leadership with instant success as a coach. That’s borderline HOF stuff. It isn’t guaranteed, though, and he needs to continue to pile it on as a coach if he wants a good shot.

He’s 53rd in career points while being a top 5-10 defensive forward of all time. Should be a no brainer HoFer.

 

[Chrispy]

Brind'Amour needs to coach the Canes to (at the very least one) a Cup championship. If they continue to deny him after that well, yeah it'll be blatantly obvious.

So yeah, win a Cup.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Bill Barber was inducted into the HHOF in 1990, five years after his retirement. Thanks for making my point so perfectly for me.

I forgot he was in, tbh.

It doesn’t really make your point, though — Barber, like Roy, made the HOF an entirely based on his achievements as a player. He didn’t win the Adams till 11 years after his HOF induction, and for Roy it was 8 years later. Both of them were clear-cut HOF players. Guys like Rod and Lehtinen are not.

Rod has not and likely will not make it on his case as a player. For a good part of his career he wasn’t even the 1C on his own team, that’s the reality of it. He had a strong finish with the Canes and added a lot to his legacy from 2002-06, but it’s not like he’s the Yzerman or Sakic of this franchise. Until his recent success as a coach, along with the highly questionable induction of Carbonneau, he wasn’t even being discussed routinely candidate. Carbo’s induction lowered the bar for this type of player to sneak in, and Rod has raised his profile for a new generation of fans.

If he can build on that, especially with a Cup win, maybe that nudges him over the finish line. But I wouldn’t count on it, especially not if it doesn’t happen in the fairly near future. If the Canes miss their window it’s going to end badly for him here, and that’s going to have the opposite of the effect we’re hoping for.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s 53rd in career points

Yeah, right behind Vincent Damphousse and Bernie Nicholls. Scoring numbers have to be viewed on context for guys who had long careers and played through the early 90s.

while being a top 5-10 defensive forward of all time.

All due respect to Rod as he was a fine defensive center, but he was not close to being too-10 of all time.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

All due respect to Rod as he was a fine defensive center, but he was not close to being too-10 of all time.

The whole point of the Selke is to award the best defensive forward in the game. Seven players have won it multiple times. Rod is one of them. If the Selke means *anything at all* then he is, by definition, no worse than 7th -- at least in the past 50 years.

And if the Selke doesn't mean anything, then quit giving it out.

 

[CandyCanes]

I forgot he was in, tbh.

It doesn’t really make your point, though — Barber, like Roy, made the HOF an entirely based on his achievements as a player. He didn’t win the Adams till 11 years after his HOF induction, and for Roy it was 8 years later. Both of them were clear-cut HOF players. Guys like Rod and Lehtinen are not.

Of course Lehtinen isn’t in the hall of fame. He finished his career with 514 pts. Rod Brind’Amour had 1,184 pts, more than double Lehtinen. How are these guys in the same conversation?

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s 53rd in career points while being a top 5-10 defensive forward of all time. Should be a no brainer HoFer.

The whole point of the Selke is to award the best defensive forward in the game. Seven players have won it multiple times. Rod is one of them. If the Selke means *anything at all* then he is, by definition, no worse than 7th -- at least in the past 50 years.

And if the Selke doesn't mean anything, then quit giving it out.

Even if we say Rod is the 7th best defensive center of the past 45 years (which is questionable) that still doesn’t put him anywhere near top-10 of the past 105 years. That’s a category reserved for, on average, the best player of the decade. Rod was not quite at that level, certainly not in a clear-cut way. He’s more like top-10 and arguably top-5 of his generation that played over a 20-year period.

Of course Lehtinen isn’t in the hall of fame. He finished his career with 514 pts. Rod Brind’Amour had 1,184 pts, more than double Lehtinen. How are these guys in the same conversation?

It’s a demonstration of how much the HHOF values Selkes. A little, but not so much that multiple Selkes becomes an overwhelming factor.

 

[CandyCanes]

Even if we say Rod is the 7th best defensive center of the past 45 years (which is questionable) that still doesn’t put him anywhere near top-10 of the past 105 years. That’s a category reserved for, on average, the best player of the decade. Rod was not quite at that level, certainly not in a clear-cut way. He’s more like top-10 and arguably top-5 of his generation that played over a 20-year period.



It’s a demonstration of how much the HHOF values Selkes. A little, but not so much that multiple Selkes becomes an overwhelming factor.

Fair enough. Curious what’s your thoughts on Patrice Bergeron making it to the HHOF?