Around the League 38: It was 3 to 1...

[StorminSnvechnAho]

Stall line appears to be getting a speed buff.....

 

[bleedgreen]

bleed, Trocheck has 16 points in his last 38 playoff games (since the bubble). I understand and respect the other elements he brings to the game, but at a certain point, the production has to be there to be given the label of great.

I don’t really care about the playoff production I guess. I feel it’s missing the whole conversation about the second center slot. He’s a great second center all season which gets us here. We’re now a very good team all around so we can survive the loss in the regular season but until we got to this level we very much needed to have the lines slotted better and I think it’s something we need to keep doing to move forward from here. Again, it was never really about Tro….it was about what remained if we let him go and didn’t replace him. We’re very much feeling that right now imo, and will continue to do so.

Is he a great playoff second center? It’s an interesting question, a deep dive analysis on second center production in the playoffs would be interesting for the debate. I feel a lot goes into whether or not a player who’s not a star gets playoffs points or not. He hasn’t produced pure numbers and sometimes people care and sometimes they don’t, if it serves the current conversation like it does here….sure we now care about point production from Tro. He’s very much a playoff player to me, he does a lot of dirty work. He’s around the net all game, he busts his ass, he wins battles. No the points haven’t been there but to me this isn’t a player who loses his game when it gets tough, and I do think he still plays a very effective playoff game. I think his much heralded linemates are pretty useless in the playoffs, and that their team lost their chemistry with all the messing around at the deadline. Ironically I think he’s one of their better playoff guys.

He wasn’t the issue when he was here. He isn’t the issue there. I struggle with the whole “well thank god we got away from THAT guy” talk that focuses on the low hanging point production when every guy around him crumbled and he did the same work he always does. We miss someone really solid like he is in his slot. It allows more focus on Aho.

We have some core roster construction issues and some philosophies that play a role in our lack of playoff success, and it’s a lot bigger than Tro to me.

 

[Svechhammer]

It’s the playoffs. Ridiculous bounces are a part of it.

We only won a Cup because a backup goalie decided to say “here you go have the puck” to Rod Brind’Amour behind his own net with a minute left in a tie game.

That series only went to Game 6 because Eric Staal said 'here you go, you have the puck' on the PP in OT of Game 5 with the Cup getting shined up in the hallway

 

[cptjeff]

Stall line appears to be getting a speed buff.....

Oh god, we're back to Staal trying to run a scoring line. That never ends well.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Oh god, we're back to Staal trying to run a scoring line. That never ends well.

With the way necas is playing, would he really be running a scoring line?

 

[StorminSnvechnAho]

I think this is more about giving Staals line the speed to suppress Jerseys 1st line.

Oh god, we're back to Staal trying to run a scoring line. That never ends well.

That series only went to Game 6 because Eric Staal said 'here you go, you have the puck' on the PP in OT of Game 5 with the Cup getting shined up in the hallway

I remember that like yesterday he saw the CUP and lost all concentration.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

That series only went to Game 6 because Eric Staal said 'here you go, you have the puck' on the PP in OT of Game 5 with the Cup getting shined up in the hallway

Fun fact: I was in the bathroom of RBC during that goal. Bad stomachache. Probably the only person in the arena not watching the game. I like to think that was a present specifically for me, that I didn’t go to every game of the playoffs only to miss the Stanley Cup-winning OT goal.

(Also, I was under the impression it was a Stillman mishap?)

 

[Svechhammer]

Fun fact: I was in the bathroom of RBC during that goal. Bad stomachache. Probably the only person in the arena not watching the game. I like to think that was a present specifically for me, that I didn’t go to every game of the playoffs only to miss the Stanley Cup-winning OT goal.

(Also, I was under the impression it was a Stillman mishap?)

Ahh, you're right. Stillman with a lazy weak pass in traffic to Staal that got easily picked and housed by Pisani.

f***in hell, man.... You made me go back and watch to confirm. Such a bad play on what should have been Coronation Day

 

[Lempo]

With the way necas is playing, would he really be running a scoring line?

Your opponent doesn't have the slightest clue what you're doing if you don't have the slightest clue what you're doing.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I don’t really care about the playoff production I guess. I feel it’s missing the whole conversation about the second center slot. He’s a great second center all season which gets us here. We’re now a very good team all around so we can survive the loss in the regular season but until we got to this level we very much needed to have the lines slotted better and I think it’s something we need to keep doing to move forward from here. Again, it was never really about Tro….it was about what remained if we let him go and didn’t replace him. We’re very much feeling that right now imo, and will continue to do so.

Is he a great playoff second center? It’s an interesting question, a deep dive analysis on second center production in the playoffs would be interesting for the debate. I feel a lot goes into whether or not a player who’s not a star gets playoffs points or not. He hasn’t produced pure numbers and sometimes people care and sometimes they don’t, if it serves the current conversation like it does here….sure we now care about point production from Tro. He’s very much a playoff player to me, he does a lot of dirty work. He’s around the net all game, he busts his ass, he wins battles. No the points haven’t been there but to me this isn’t a player who loses his game when it gets tough, and I do think he still plays a very effective playoff game. I think his much heralded linemates are pretty useless in the playoffs, and that their team lost their chemistry with all the messing around at the deadline. Ironically I think he’s one of their better playoff guys.

He wasn’t the issue when he was here. He isn’t the issue there. I struggle with the whole “well thank god we got away from THAT guy” talk that focuses on the low hanging point production when every guy around him crumbled and he did the same work he always does. We miss someone really solid like he is in his slot. It allows more focus on Aho.

We have some core roster construction issues and some philosophies that play a role in our lack of playoff success, and it’s a lot bigger than Tro to me.

A sample of middle of the lineup centers with 20 or more playoff GP since 20/21 (range limited by NST):

Player	5v5 P/60	IPP
Karlsson	3.63​	86.96​
Nelson	2.53​	75​
Bennett	2.07​	62.5​
Chytil	2.03​	78.57​
Pageau	1.63​	81.82​
Roy	1.57​	72.73​
Cirelli	1.46​	62.96​
J. Staal	1.45​	76.92​
Copp	1.21​	60​
Gourde	1.18​	64.29​
Coyle	1.17​	66.67​
Trocheck	1.12​	50​
Danault	1.02​	64.29​

Trocheck's IPP stands out. He probably missed out on a few points by chance. His number isn't as bad as it looks.

To that point, it's not that I'm criticizing him for being a playoff no-show. I fully agree with you in that he wasn't the problem. It's just that he wasn't the solution either. That's where the disagreement of most here (?) lies. He's a decent enough 2nd line center, Not great, just solid. That is not a high bar to reach for a replacement. And in the context of the risky contract he's signed to, it doesn't feel like much of a loss.

In an ideal world, a center better than Trocheck and Kotkaniemi is behind Aho. Those are difficult to acquire, of course.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

A sample of middle of the lineup centers with 20 or more playoff GP since 20/21 (range limited by NST):

Player	5v5 P/60	IPP
Karlsson	3.63​	86.96​
Nelson	2.53​	75​
Bennett	2.07​	62.5​
Chytil	2.03​	78.57​
Pageau	1.63​	81.82​
Roy	1.57​	72.73​
Cirelli	1.46​	62.96​
J. Staal	1.45​	76.92​
Copp	1.21​	60​
Gourde	1.18​	64.29​
Coyle	1.17​	66.67​
Trocheck	1.12​	50​
Danault	1.02​	64.29​

Trocheck's IPP stands out. He probably missed out on a few points by chance. His number isn't as bad as it looks.

To that point, it's not that I'm criticizing him for being a playoff no-show. I fully agree with you in that he wasn't the problem. It's just that he wasn't the solution either. That's where the disagreement of most here (?) lies. He's a decent enough 2nd line center, Not great, just solid. That is not a high bar to reach for a replacement. And in the context of the risky contract he's signed to, it doesn't feel like much of a loss.

In an ideal world, a center better than Trocheck and Kotkaniemi is behind Aho. Those are difficult to acquire, of course.

Dubois would likely be ideal, but there's significant speculation that he only wants to sign in Montreal.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Your opponent doesn't have the slightest clue what you're doing if you don't have the slightest clue what you're doing.

i feel seen

 

[Svechhammer]

Your opponent doesn't have the slightest clue what you're doing if you don't have the slightest clue what you're doing.

Fake it til you make it

 

[bleedgreen]

A sample of middle of the lineup centers with 20 or more playoff GP since 20/21 (range limited by NST):

Player	5v5 P/60	IPP
Karlsson	3.63​	86.96​
Nelson	2.53​	75​
Bennett	2.07​	62.5​
Chytil	2.03​	78.57​
Pageau	1.63​	81.82​
Roy	1.57​	72.73​
Cirelli	1.46​	62.96​
J. Staal	1.45​	76.92​
Copp	1.21​	60​
Gourde	1.18​	64.29​
Coyle	1.17​	66.67​
Trocheck	1.12​	50​
Danault	1.02​	64.29​

Trocheck's IPP stands out. He probably missed out on a few points by chance. His number isn't as bad as it looks.

To that point, it's not that I'm criticizing him for being a playoff no-show. I fully agree with you in that he wasn't the problem. It's just that he wasn't the solution either. That's where the disagreement of most here (?) lies. He's a decent enough 2nd line center, Not great, just solid. That is not a high bar to reach for a replacement. And in the context of the risky contract he's signed to, it doesn't feel like much of a loss.

In an ideal world, a center better than Trocheck and Kotkaniemi is behind Aho. Those are difficult to acquire, of course.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t be a high bar to reach, but I also agree that they’re difficult to acquire. The lengths we went through to get Koko show that. I think we fully believed he was going to be that 2C, and that they thought as soon as this year he’d be there. That’s a questionable choice to me. I know technically he IS that guy but he’s not done very much to prove that he belongs there. He doesn’t fill the spot well, and he’s the Staal replacement in my book. If we don’t move Necas to center (unlikely imo) we need another center to keep growing. Having a defensively responsible righty is also a big aspect of this.

To me we had one window and that’s the contracts of Slavin/Pesce with Aho. Of course another window may open with a new set of players after this, but to me it was a big deal to make the best effort during those years. I don’t assume anything about the next wave. I’d have done something more “all in-ish” with this group when it comes to that 2C spot. My reasons for signing Tro would’ve been not only about he’s a righty, solid defensively, more of a shooter on a passing team who fits in very well with the group but the fact that what we have now was a real big concern for me looking at the window. This year and next, and then this team is likely to be in a different phase for better or worse. Aho isn’t enough at C, and Koko isn’t enough to support him yet. Funny people Tro’s points are being clowned but no one is mentioning JK only has one himself. Staal is Staal.

Maybe the next phase will be amazing. I just have trouble taking this one for granted after a decade of suck.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Yowza…nice of them to carry the load.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yowza…nice of them to carry the load.

The folks watching the tv are witnessing history, of course ad sales are very high

 

[HisIceness]

That series only went to Game 6 because Eric Staal said 'here you go, you have the puck' on the PP in OT of Game 5 with the Cup getting shined up in the hallway

Everytime the puck was on the stick of Fernando Pisani, I got scared.

 

[hblueridgegal]

US:



Canada:



I imagine a Leafs/Oilers final is the suits' wish.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Florida doing exactly what they can't afford to do, give the Leafs PPs.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Cats score first.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

Cats are one of those teams I really enjoy watching when they aren't playing us lol.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Tkachuk line dominating physically. Big hits on Kampf and Giordano already.

 

[DaveG]

Selke finalists named:

Bergeron, Hischier, and Marner.... I'm sorry but is that a joke? Hischier isn't bad but he wouldn't register above someone like Barkov or Staal for me, and Marner? holy hell that's bad.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Tkachuk needs to work on this playoff beard.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Selke finalists named:

Bergeron, Hischier, and Marner.... I'm sorry but is that a joke? Hischier isn't bad but he wouldn't register above someone like Barkov or Staal for me, and Marner? holy hell that's bad.

Its an offensive award now.