Around the League 3 - The Threequel Always Sucks

[nobuddy]

Yeah I don't think gm's just hand out ntc's like candy. They had Benning where they wanted him, he didn't have a choice. I don't think they gave up much to get Sutter at all. Bonino has become one of the most overrated players I think I've seen in a long time around here. Vancouver thinks they dman they tossed in is not an nhl player and the picks aren't a huge difference.

I don't think benning has done bad. Everyone rails about the Kesler trade. Did he have a better offer on the table? He had a guy who wanted out, doesn't give you a lot of options.

you lost me when you said "i don't think benning has done bad"

 

[DaveG]

LOL'd

though I think he's right about the Kesler trade. Hard to get better value when you have a guy that flat out wants out. Makes what Stevey Y was able to get in the St Louis trade seem even more impressive in retrospect.

 

[bleedgreen]

Well lay it out for me. Why is he that bad?

 

[DaveG]

honestly, I think he got absolutely fleeced on both the Lack and Sutter trades this summer, and I say that as a guy that's still a fan of Sutter.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think he got fleeced at all on the Sutter trade. I think they think Sutter is the better player, and I don't disagree. I think they are at least equal from my point of view, and I lean towards Sutter. They think Sutter is the better skater and more likely to be a core player. That nullifies the "advantage" of the contracts. Bonino is only cheap for the rest of this contract, and they like Sutter now so they tie him up. Sutter's contract isn't off for where he's at imo.

The picks make up the difference in perceived value and the Canucks don't think anything of the defenseman. If that guy shows up and legitimately plays well in the nhl then the deal sways in pitts favor.

I don't think they got fleeced in the lack trade. Another guy they were clearly moving, and he took the best offer he got obviously. We assume lack is a stud when he had one good season. So did Dobby. Everyone seems to think when a Gm makes what looks like a "bad" deal that someone was offering something far better. These guys do make other phone calls typically.

 

[StormCast]

Bonino has put up 88 points over the last two years. Sutter, 59. I'm not sure Selke level defense is worth that difference, and if we're talking overrated, Sutter isn't even close to that.

If Vancouver is getting 40 point Sutter, that contract is not terrible. If it's the Sutter of the last 5 seasons who has averaged 30 points a year, then that's a lot to pay.

But such a high-level stat comparison lacks context, as you know. The better gauge will be how they produce in their new roles - Sutter as a 2C in Vancouver and Bonino as a 3C in Pittsburgh. That's the far better comparative.

Both teams had stout PK units and both guys played prominent roles but Sutter is the better all-around killer. I don't see this as a lopsided trade but this coming season will be the much better barometer.

 

[DaveG]

I don't think he got fleeced at all on the Sutter trade. I think they think Sutter is the better player, and I don't disagree. I think they are at least equal from my point of view, and I lean towards Sutter. They think Sutter is the better skater and more likely to be a core player. That nullifies the "advantage" of the contracts. Bonino is only cheap for the rest of this contract, and they like Sutter now so they tie him up. Sutter's contract isn't off for where he's at imo.

The picks make up the difference in perceived value and the Canucks don't think anything of the defenseman. If that guy shows up and legitimately plays well in the nhl then the deal sways in pitts favor.

I don't think they got fleeced in the lack trade. Another guy they were clearly moving, and he took the best offer he got obviously. We assume lack is a stud when he had one good season. So did Dobby. Everyone seems to think when a Gm makes what looks like a "bad" deal that someone was offering something far better. These guys do make other phone calls typically.

I dunno, I mean you look at the returns that Jones just got and that Talbot got, Talbot not being quite as proven as Lack yet and Jones just flat out not being as good, and when compared to what we got Lack for, the only word that comes to mind for me there is "fleecing".

The Sutter trade to me is swayed by Clendening of all things. Sutter is a solid defensive #3 to me, the kind of guy the Canucks needed to bring in after losing Kesler last offseason. Swapping him for Bonino is fully justified. Downgrading the picks was unnecessary... flat out JR-esque which is especially confusing since he's the GM this trade was made with, but that's not a dealbreaker to me. But I think giving up on Clendening in this deal was a blunder. The guy just reminds me a lot of a young Seidenberg right now. I dunno, we'll see in about 2-3 years how this trade turns out but I really don't like the optics of it right now.

 

[bleedgreen]

Jones is considered by many to be a legit number one starter in waiting. I think lack is a backup who had a hot stretch. What plays out there? Who knows, as you say we'll see. I think Ward is likely our starter, though I'd love to see him get pushed.

I'll watch the Clendenning aspect, as it makes the trade lean towards Pitts for sure if he makes it. Vancouver obviously doesn't think so.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This was posted in the trade board topic when the rumored signing first appeared:

The more I look the worse it gets.

Dorsett | 2.65
Sbisa | 3.6
Prust | 2.5
Sutter | 4.4
Miller | 6.0
TOTAL | 19.15M - 5 players + 3rd (lack trade) + 3rd (sutter trade) 7th (lack trade)

Bonino | 1.9
Stanton | 0.575
Matthias | 2.3
Richardson | 2.08
Kassian | 1.75
Lack | 1.15
TOTAL | 9.75M - 6 players + forsling + 2nd (sutter trade) + 5th (prust trade)

I'd say that's pretty damning. He added 10 million in salary and gave up better draft picks, but didn't significantly improve the team (at least, on paper).

 

[What the Faulk]

Jones is considered by many to be a legit number one starter in waiting. I think lack is a backup who had a hot stretch. What plays out there? Who knows, as you say we'll see. I think Ward is likely our starter, though I'd love to see him get pushed.

I'll watch the Clendenning aspect, as it makes the trade lean towards Pitts for sure if he makes it. Vancouver obviously doesn't think so.

How can anyone possibly come to these two conclusions? Jones is an UDFA who has played 34 NHL games (fewer than Lack in either of the last two years), putting up good numbers on a good team and mediocre numbers on a mediocre team. He is younger, but there is still little basis for either of those.

 

[The Stranger]

How can anyone possibly come to these two conclusions? Jones is an UDFA who has played 34 NHL games (fewer than Lack in either of the last two years), putting up good numbers on a good team and mediocre numbers on a mediocre team. He is younger, but there is still little basis for either of those.

Pro-scouting will look beyond where a player was drafted and what their stats were recently.

Where they were drafted 7 or 9 years ago is not relevant.

If one guy has played in 30 games and one guy has played in 80 games, that still is not very informative as to who the better talent is.

Not saying I think one guy is better than the other...just that if it's your job, you have two or three guys to look at, and you have to determine who you think is a backup on a hot streak and who is a budding starter, you need to watch them play, evaluate technical aspects of their capabilities, maybe do research on their work ethic and mental make-up, etc.

 

[Unsustainable]

Patrick Kane under investigation in Buffalo.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

p kane is a rapist

i mean racist*

 

[bleedgreen]

This was posted in the trade board topic when the rumored signing first appeared:



I'd say that's pretty damning. He added 10 million in salary and gave up better draft picks, but didn't significantly improve the team (at least, on paper).

On paper, to hockey geeks. Let's see how the team actually plays. I doubt they hold the same opinion that us, the uninformed do.

 

[bleedgreen]

How can anyone possibly come to these two conclusions? Jones is an UDFA who has played 34 NHL games (fewer than Lack in either of the last two years), putting up good numbers on a good team and mediocre numbers on a mediocre team. He is younger, but there is still little basis for either of those.

I'm not even agreeing with it, just saying that it's the obvious perception people have of jones vs Lack which likely played into their trade value.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

pls note i am not trying to post libel wrt my last post i just have made a lot of posts stating simply that _________ is a racist and the opportunity is too good to pass up considering that news sources are saying it is a police investigation into a rape allegation pls do not take offense at the post ty and happy wednesday

 

[Identity404]

Every one who has ran into P Kane at the Bars in Buffalo says he is a huge ****** with a big ****** entourage.

I believe there is truth to the supposed allegations. Lets not forget the cabbie incident and then frat party in '12.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

he probably has secret invite only parties like most celebrities tend to do

 

[Blueline Bomber]

On paper, to hockey geeks. Let's see how the team actually plays. I doubt they hold the same opinion that us, the uninformed do.

Hence why I added "on paper." However, it would have to take a serious improvement on the ice to be worth $10 million in cap space. And I just don't see it.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

p kane is a rapist

i mean racist*

#rapeistpkaneo

 

[RodTheBawd]

Every one who has ran into P Kane at the Bars in Buffalo says he is a huge ****** with a big ****** entourage.

I believe there is truth to the supposed allegations. Lets not forget the cabbie incident and then frat party in '12.

Truth to what? No one even knows what the allegations are. Allegedly punching a cabbie in the face that tried to keep him locked in (I'm downplaying this, obviously), getting hammered like a normal 20 something.... SOUNDS LIKE A RAPIST TO ME. Nice logical jump there, bud.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Truth to what? No one even knows what the allegations are. Allegedly punching a cabbie in the face that tried to keep him locked in, getting hammered like a normal 20 something, SOUNDS LIKE A RAPIST TO ME. Nice logical jump there, bud.

no, TODAY'S allegations:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sources-kane-target-of-rape-investigation-20150806

 

[RodTheBawd]

I'm aware of TODAY'S allegations. There has been nothing confirmed that it's a rape allegation, just unconfirmed "sources". If his history leads people to "believe there's truth" behind (unconfirmed) rape allegations, then lock me the **** up, cause I know I did a whole lot more **** than Kaner has been accused of (sans any abuse towards women).

It hasn't even been confirmed that it's a rape/sexual assault, 0 details whatsoever about the entire thing, and he says he believes there's some truth behind these supposed allegations. That's a ****ing pathetic line of thought.

(also, I didn't intend to entirely writeoff the choke rumors in '12, just seems more would have come from that if there was validity behind it)

 

[the halleJOKEL]

it is being posted and tweeted by news people in buffalo so it seems more likely than not

doesnt mean he is guilty, of course

 

[Anton Babchuk]

i think it's worth noting that patrick kane is on a certain satin mod's fantasy team