Around the League: 2019 Offseason || Part 2

[StreetHawk]

Gillis is on the record saying that he is interested in taking a GM job (actually I think he said he'd be the president, not GM) only in a perfect situation. He talked about this on radio or something. Basically unlimited budget, full autonomy to build the hockey ops from the ground up exactly how he wants it etc. Can't imagine that's easy to achieve in the NHL, and he clearly isn't desperate enough to get back into the business to budge on his demands at all. Good for him. Unlike some of the softheaded dolts who have no other career opportunities than the sinecure jobs they get from the NHL machine through their friends and relatives, Gillis has the capability and competence to have plenty of options and do all sorts of things in his life.

For some hockey is their life. Plenty of guys are like Burke who went from assistant gm in Van to gm of Hartford to nhl offices to gm of Van to gm of Anaheim to GM of Toronto to president of Calgary and now to tv with about a year off when he got let go over these past 3 decades. Constantly trying to get back when they are let go of a job.

Others have opportunities outside the NHL that they choose to pursue.

To each their own path in life.

I wonder what team offers that job he is looking for right now? Is there one that ticks all of his boxes currently? ( Location not being a factor).

 

[Carnal]

These last few pages can't be unread unfortunately. Are there actual enthusiastic fact crunching Canuck fans who prefer Benning over Gillis? I'm at a loss. I really hope I missed some sarcasm or missed the point...

 

[EpochLink]

Was hoping Gillis would get the Seattle job but Francis would probably be my number two choice.

He was never gonna get the Seattle job.
Unless he had connections or some old boys club member was gonna buy in...it was a long shot.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

He was never gonna get the Seattle job.
Unless he had connections or some old boys club member was gonna buy in...it was a long shot.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's unfortunate because I think Gillis would be the most capable candidate but with how political the NHL is, I guess they didn't necessarily make a poor decision with Francis. Although I remember his 'Canes run as being completely unremarkable. But Muh Old Boyz Club.

 

[EpochLink]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's unfortunate because I think Gillis would be the most capable candidate but with how political the NHL is, I guess they didn't necessarily make a poor decision with Francis. Although I remember his 'Canes run as being completely unremarkable. But Muh Old Boyz Club.

Old boys club > someone outside the box because politics.

Gotta protect the old boys club, unless Gillis was groomed by an old boys club member like Dubas is with Shanahan...

 

[Bleach Clean]

Ehhh ... this is a guy who said he didn’t want to work elsewhere for family reasons, wasn’t credibly linked anywhere or reported to even interview anywhere for 5 years, and then when an expansion team pops up in a location close to his family he immediately threw his hat in the ring.

To me, the evidence indicates exactly what he said when he was here - he wasn’t interested in moving away from this area.

Until recent evidence suggests otherwise. Perhaps now he is not as reticent to work elsewhere? This is possible while still holding intact all of his past preferences.

It’s a slippery slope once you hold rumours to be true on some things and not on others. Especially when said rumours originate from vetted sources.

 

[StreetHawk]

Until recent evidence suggests otherwise. Perhaps now he is not as reticent to work elsewhere? This is possible while still holding intact all of his past preferences.

It’s a slippery slope once you hold rumours to be true on some things and not on others. Especially when said rumours originate from vetted sources.

Depends what role he wants to get into, President or GM. How many teams actually have a separate President and GM? When Gillis was in Vancouver, he held both roles. I believe most of the veteran GMs around the NHL hold both titles.

Others like Dallas they have Lites/Nill duo, LAK it's Robitaille/Blake and now in NYR, it's Davidson/Gorton.

These positions don't come around too often. Burke left Calgary and it appears his duties got rolled up to the CEO.

There have been 22 GM changes since the start of the 14-15 season. Of that list, about half ended up going to someone internal to the franchise. Blake in LA, Dubas in Tor, Waddell in Car, Gorton in NYR, McCrimmon in LV, Brisebois in TB, Dorion in Ottawa, Sweeny in Boston, the weird Tallon/Rowe situation in FLA, and I'd bundle Yzerman in Det as internal as the Wings were not moving off Holland for anyone else.

Outside the organization hires have been: Botterill in Buf, PC in Edm, Holland in Edm, Chayka in AZ, McPhee in LV, Francis in SEA, Lou in Tor, Lou in NYI, Shero in NJ, Rutherford in Pit, Fletcher in Phi, Fenton in Min.

If it's a GM role, it's about 4 openings a year, but only around half went to someone outside the organization.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Has there ever been a GM who got fired in a bitter fashion and ended up coming back in another executive role? Gilman and Gillis back would be something else drama wise

 

[StreetHawk]

Has there ever been a GM who got fired in a bitter fashion and ended up coming back in another executive role? Gilman and Gillis back would be something else drama wise

Seen coaches return in recent years like Carlyle in Anaheim and Therrien in Montreal.

Bobby Clarke was Philly's GM in the early to mid 80's and was fired. He returned to the team as GM after his stint with Florida in the mid 90's. Clarke is a life long flyer, so kind of skews things a bit.

Can't say I recall another GM who returned after being terminated.

 

[MS]

Until recent evidence suggests otherwise. Perhaps now he is not as reticent to work elsewhere? This is possible while still holding intact all of his past preferences.

It’s a slippery slope once you hold rumours to be true on some things and not on others. Especially when said rumours originate from vetted sources.

I’m not being inconsistent. Gillis being interested in Seattle wasn’t a rumour - it was a fact that came out of his own mouth in an interview.

What other ‘vetted’ rumours are there? There’s nothing in 5 years except a vague mention by John Shannon about the Oilers job this spring.

Everything seems consistent with what he said both before and after being GM here - he doesn’t want to leave this area and would only be interested in certain specific perfect situations, of which Seattle appears to be one.

________

The notion that he’s been blackballed because he wasn’t part of the ‘old boys club’ is just nonsense. First off, the guy was a long-time ex-player who was teammates with guys like Jim Nill, Craig MacTavish, Steve Tambellini, and Joel Quenneville. And Ron Delorme, interestingly, which probably explains a few things about why he was so slow to remove Delorme. So he was part of that club even if Brian Burke didn’t like him, and Burke had feuds with everyone. It’s bizarre how Gillis seems to get portrayed as this snooty big-city lawyer who joined sports late when he was actually a gritty working-class former NHL grinder from Kingston, Ontario. I would wager over half of the casuals don’t even know he played in the NHL.

And in any case, other GMs aren’t hiring him, owners are. And the notion that someone like Tom Dundon in Carolina who is completely new to the sport wasn’t hiring Gillis because Gillis didn’t get along with Brian Burke is just silly.

 

[EpochLink]

Politics, it’s all politics.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Probably looking at a 1 year deal in the $1.5mil range. Show me deal for a #6 guy that still needs to prove he belongs in the NHL.

Wtf

 

[Derp Kassian]

The notion that he’s been blackballed because he wasn’t part of the ‘old boys club’ is just nonsense. First off, the guy was a long-time ex-player who was teammates with guys like Jim Nill, Craig MacTavish, Steve Tambellini, and Joel Quenneville. And Ron Delorme, interestingly, which probably explains a few things about why he was so slow to remove Delorme. So he was part of that club even if Brian Burke didn’t like him, and Burke had feuds with everyone. It’s bizarre how Gillis seems to get portrayed as this snooty big-city lawyer who joined sports late when he was actually a gritty working-class former NHL grinder from Kingston, Ontario. I would wager over half of the casuals don’t even know he played in the NHL.

And in any case, other GMs aren’t hiring him, owners are. And the notion that someone like Tom Dundon in Carolina who is completely new to the sport wasn’t hiring Gillis because Gillis didn’t get along with Brian Burke is just silly.

Lets not forget that Bettman basically gives the ok on President and GM hirings like a Don in the mafia. Could there be something there because of how Gillis tried to keep getting over them as GM with Van with the cap and such?

 

[StreetHawk]

Lets not forget that Bettman basically gives the ok on President and GM hirings like a Don in the mafia. Could there be something there because of how Gillis tried to keep getting over them as GM with Van with the cap and such?

Aside from the Lu contract, which was similar to others like Hossa, how else did Gillis try to get over on the league?

 

[MS]

Lets not forget that Bettman basically gives the ok on President and GM hirings like a Don in the mafia. Could there be something there because of how Gillis tried to keep getting over them as GM with Van with the cap and such?

There were about 20 contracts similar to Luongo's. Everyone was doing it. Also Gilman was the guy structuring all that stuff and he was literally hired by the league as his next job after leaving here.

People are trying to read way, way too much into this. He literally said when he was here he wouldn't work anywhere else and then has said in interviews since he'd only work again if the specific right job came along. He isn't an NHL GM because he hasn't wanted to be. Other than Seattle, which was the right job/location he was looking for and then immediately publicly threw his hat in the ring for.

 

[Jyrki21]

Cartels are inherently unstable because of the prisoner's dilemma -- there is tremendous advantage to be gained by defecting from the group if everyone else holds by the rules. The idea that 32 owners could be cajoled into blackballing a candidate who was a tremendous success in his first and only run as an NHL general manager because of an "old boys club" (keeping in mind that NHL owners are not former NHLers and for the most part have no prior business relationship with other owners) just isn't very realistic. 4 or 5 owners? Sure. 32, though?

It is far more likely that Gillis was not interested in leaving the region.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Wtf

maybe the gardner situation is holding up a team with interest in him as a plan b but right now it looks like hutton is not part of anyone's strategic plan and he will be looking for a fill in / show me gig. i think will be lucky to break $2 million or get more than two years.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Cartels are inherently unstable because of the prisoner's dilemma -- there is tremendous advantage to be gained by defecting from the group if everyone else holds by the rules. The idea that 32 owners could be cajoled into blackballing a candidate who was a tremendous success in his first and only run as an NHL general manager because of an "old boys club" (keeping in mind that NHL owners are not former NHLers and for the most part have no prior business relationship with other owners) just isn't very realistic. 4 or 5 owners? Sure. 32, though?

It is far more likely that Gillis was not interested in leaving the region.

this is what happens when you are smart but have a massive bias. the first paragraph is logical but leads you to a totally irrational conclusion in the second. objectively, it is far more likely that gillis has an actual substantial problem discouraging teams from hiring him than the idea he will only work in the pnw. for one thing he has been connected to positions with teams outside the pnw. for another he doesn't even live in the pnw. he went on a "world tour" then moved to switzerland to invest in and help run a swiss hockey team, plus according to gillis he has spent his time studying how to run sports organizations. that's not what someone not interested in being a general manager does.

what is likely if he had the resume you think he has, is that nhl teams would have targeted and courted him, reporters would have mentioned him as being considered more, and not to mention aquilini would have been encouraging all that to hope to avoid paying out his contract.

on the other hand, there is literally nothing but your own personal bias supporting the idea that it is "far more likely" gillis is being regionally picky. that is certainly a possibility, but in no way is it objectively likely let alone far more likely, based on what we know.

anyway, let's discuss what a massive mistake benning made in not qualifying hutton instead.

 

[Peen]

he's literally said in interviews... ah nvm you're just doing what you're accusing others of... being ignorant to the evidence due to your bias.

 

[MS]

this is what happens when you are smart but have a massive bias. the first paragraph is logical but leads you to a totally irrational conclusion in the second. objectively, it is far more likely that gillis has an actual substantial problem discouraging teams from hiring him than the idea he will only work in the pnw. for one thing he has been connected to positions with teams outside the pnw. for another he doesn't even live in the pnw. he went on a "world tour" then moved to switzerland to invest in and help run a swiss hockey team, plus according to gillis he has spent his time studying how to run sports organizations. that's not what someone not interested in being a general manager does.

what is likely if he had the resume you think he has, is that nhl teams would have targeted and courted him, reporters would have mentioned him as being considered more, and not to mention aquilini would have been encouraging all that to hope to avoid paying out his contract.

on the other hand, there is literally nothing but your own personal bias supporting the idea that it is "far more likely" gillis is being regionally picky. that is certainly a possibility, but in no way is it objectively likely let alone far more likely, based on what we know.

anyway, let's discuss what a massive mistake benning made in not qualifying hutton instead.

He doesn't live in Switzerland - he spent some time there and bought half the team. Everything you say sounds like someone who still has an active mind and enjoys learning and traveling but is in no rush to get back to the day-to-day grind of being an NHL GM.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to believe that a 60 y/o multi-millionaire who spent several decades in a high-stress industry and was clearly pretty burned out by the end of his time here might choose to semi-retire close to his family and pursue smaller personal projects that interest him unless the absolute perfect situation comes up ... which is literally what he's said in multiple interviews. Instead they feel the need to concoct this notion of some bizarre vendetta against him that is backed up by absolutely nothing.

 

[Jyrki21]

on the other hand, there is literally nothing but your own personal bias supporting the idea that it is "far more likely" gillis is being regionally picky. that is certainly a possibility, but in no way is it objectively likely let alone far more likely, based on what we know.

What? I am arguing Occam’s razor – the likelihood that an unwieldy cartel of 32 self-interested, competing parties would realistically be able to blackball a guy that they see as having value. I’m not claiming he would otherwise have won every job, but that it’s more likely he wasn’t interested in any given vacancy (there haven’t been that many) than “politics” being the reason.

 

[MS]

The other thing is that when a GM vacancy came up he actually was interested in and that fit the 'not leaving the area' notion he'd put out there in the past, he immediately publicly linked himself to it. Nothing even remotely like that happened in the previous 5 years, when he constantly said that maybe he was interested in returning for the right situation but was in no rush.

It's not like the guy is some mystery in hiding just leaving us all guessing. He's given tons of interviews both before and after his time as GM here and stated very clearly his thoughts on working elsewhere, and then when a job came up that fit with what he had repeatedly said previously, he expressed interest. Everything he's said lines up with what he's done and what we see or don't see in the media.

 

[mriswith]

The only reason there are rumours about Gillis being blackballed is because it's the last remaining crutch available to the local media and other shills desperately trying to pin 6 years of Bennings failures on anyone but Benning.

I highly doubt any of this would even be a topic if we'd been a successful team under Benning. But instead there's this need for historical revisionism to make Gillis out as if he were the worst GM we'd ever had instead of the best, LOL

 

[krutovsdonut]

What? I am arguing Occam’s razor – the likelihood that an unwieldy cartel of 32 self-interested, competing parties would realistically be able to blackball a guy that they see as having value. I’m not claiming he would otherwise have won every job, but that it’s more likely he wasn’t interested in any given vacancy (there haven’t been that many) than “politics” being the reason.

i agree with the first part. it is not realistic to think he could be blackballed simply because of the old boy's club didn't like him if he is as good as you think he is. an owner would take a chance on a guy that good at his job.

i just don't see how you draw the inference this must mean he "most likely" doesn't want a job though. it doesn't follow. it is at least as likely that he is not as good as you think he is, meaning that there are genuine behind the scene issues that impact on his employability that scare off other owners.

the fact you and a couple of other posters here vigorously ignore or denounce this option b is ridiculous. it's just you being fanbois of gillis in a way you relentlessly mock and discredit people being fanbois for the canucks.

all hardcore hockey fans know there are a lot of known unknowns that get in the way of forming definitive views about events, especially off ice. how honestly you deal with those gaps in your database rather than letting your biases and preferences run away with you is what matters.

 

[tradervik]

The likely truth: Gillis took some time away from hockey but is now looking to get back in. However, his personal reputation is not as great as some people think it is and he's probably a bit picky about the situation. There is no anti-Gillis cabal but no owner is eager to offer him a job that meets his terms.