Around the League: 2019 Offseason || Part 2

[Diamonddog01]

Gusev would've been a great target, however we don't know if Vegas would've traded him to Vancouver.

 

[deckercky]

1) Because he just doesn't have the offensive upside.

2)WHY WOULDN'T YOU LOOK AT THE COST OF ACQUISITION?!? Good lord, that's the entire point.

Miller is likely to outproduce Gusev over the life of the contract. I get that Gusev projects well, but that is far from a guarantee. Miller should get 50-60 pts, depending on health and deployment which will reliably be good value for his cap space. He is cost controlled for 4 seasons (all prime). Despite the cost, Miller is likely to provide excellent value to the Canucks. Miller is also younger.

Gusev has a higher upside, but may not translate (in which case the team adds $4.5M in effectively dead cap space). Gusev is only cost controlled for two seasons, at which point he is a UFA. If Gusev performs to his potential, you get great value for two seasons, then he's a UFA who will be demanding market value, if he wants to stay with Vancouver at all.

I'd also add that Miller fits the heavy playstyle of the Canucks, as they're starting to fill the roster with skilled and semi-skilled players who play a heavy game.

Obviously the Canucks paid more for Miller than New Jersey paid for Gusev, but they definitely got the more valuable player for that additional value.

 

[deckercky]

Gusev would've been a great target, however we don't know if Vegas would've traded him to Vancouver.

Good point - I doubt Vegas was willing to trade him within the division.

 

[StreetHawk]

There goes another suitor for Louie

Ottawa saves cash of over $2 mill in the deal. Condon won’t make the club and they have others in the A they want to develop.

Loui for them to take has to be worth what they have to pay him cash wise. Zaitsev they added for average of $3.9 mill cash.

 

[Upoil]

So you are telling me that because of those three players you referenced that your point is made and that there is no risk in signing a player to a 4.5m contract when that player has not played a game in the nhl? Because that is all I was saying, there is risk. I don't know why you need a list of players who have not done well when crossing over. No one is saying Gusev is going to fail for sure. But there is nothing wrong with seeing the risk there.

He was not an option for the canucks because of the salary cap, and that is because of the bad contracts they carry.

Please tell me exactly where I said this. You have made up your own argument for me. Don't do that.

Also, still looking for this list of players you are sure exist. Not asking too much for you to backup your claims.

 

[VanillaCoke]

4.5 a season is cheap for someone who has not played in the nhl? I totally appreciate that he is a potential score, and could be a legit talent. But to throw that much money at someone who has no track record in the nhl is only doable for a team who has a lot more cap space to gamble with.

Edit:

I would also like to add that he is 27 years old. Many people here give up on anyone who is much younger, who has not made it to the nhl, or is just starting. Just something to consider when ruling out that a player might make it one day when past their "due date". Not the norm, I know. But something to be open to. Maybe they will not be an elite talent, but growth can happen.

This is just all sorts of weird and shortsighted. And an odd way to look at it. I dont even know where to start or if its worth wasting my time on.

Some of you people have strange ways to justify both poor actions and inaction.

 

[vancityluongo]

Horse****.

The canucks are the exact kind of team that should roll the dice on a player like gusev. It makes far more sense than committing term to guys like Ferland and Roussel.

I would be the first one to praise them if they had made this move.

Your post is a locust of nonfalsifiable garbage.

In fact, it is quantifiable that people would have praised Benning for making that trade for Gusev:

July 11th:

You know I think Ferland at 3.5 is alright but I'd sure rather a team in Vancouver's position roll the dice on gusev.

Apparently teams are only offering a second and a B level prospect for Gusev.

If we're going all-in on the playoffs, and it really seems we are, I'd be okay with moving Sutter for nothing, and Gaudette for Gusev.

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Pearson - Horvat - Leivo
Baertschi - Gusev - Ferland

If Baertschi can stay healthy, that might be a playoff team top-9.

July 8th:

Apparently the ask on Gusev is a 2nd + mid pick/prospect

very reasonable

What are the responses?

Argh. Would do that in a heartbeat if this team had the cap space.

Some team is going to have themselves a steal.

Feels like a no brainer to me. That's what we gave up for Vey or Baertschi, mid-tier prospects are usually no great loss.

Damn, too bad the Canucks don't have much cap space.

This is the kind of opportunity you jump on after liquidating veterans/UFAs for excess picks. Just like NYR jumping on Adam Fox and still picking twice in the 2nd round this year.

Gusev + Miller would have been the perfect package for this team to target.

Any many more: Around the League: 2019 Offseason

lol I said yesterday that the HINDSIGHT police would be out in 6 months, more like 6 hours.

 

[Peter10]

In fact, it is quantifiable that people would have praised Benning for making that trade for Gusev:

July 11th:




July 8th:



What are the responses?











Any many more: Around the League: 2019 Offseason

lol I said the HINDSIGHT police would be out in 6 months yesterday, more like 6 hours.

But because of Gillis Benning didnt have anything to acquire these extra picks...

 

[PecaFan]

I don't get the "risk" posts. Pick any random number in the 2nd round, and pick any random draft year in the past. Add 30 for the 3rd round pick:

2009: (50) Kenny Ryan 0 gp, (80) Ryan Bourque 1 gp
2012: (48) Dillon Fournier 0 gp, (78) Shayne Gostisbehere 298 gp.
Oooh, a hit! But that same year could just as easily been:
2012: (46) Raphael Bussieres 0 gp, (76) Chris Driedger 3 gp.

The odds Vegas get even a single player out of this is miniscule. Jersey is risking nothing except some cash, and that's for only 2 years, it's not like they went Full Benning.

 

[lousy]

Please tell me exactly where I said this. You have made up your own argument for me. Don't do that.

Also, still looking for this list of players you are sure exist. Not asking too much for you to backup your claims.

That was the impression I got when you said some people would look at the no nhl experience and hold that higher than those few player stats you listed. I don't see how using three players as an example of why someone would not worry about there being no nhl experience. Because I don't have time to go hunting for stats makes my argument invalid? I am not claiming much here, and you apparently agree there is risk.

I don't think the canucks are in a position to take on a risk like that. Another potential bad contract? I think they are at their limit. I wish they were in a position to have taken that risk though.

and when I refer to risk, I am mostly referring to the contract. The price paid for the trade is fine

 

[tantalum]

That was the impression I got when you said some people would look at the no nhl experience and hold that higher than those few player stats you listed. I don't see how using three players as an example of why someone would not worry about there being no nhl experience. Because I don't have time to go hunting for stats makes my argument invalid? I am not claiming much here, and you apparently agree there is risk.

I don't think the canucks are in a position to take on a risk like that. Another potential bad contract? I think they are at their limit. I wish they were in a position to have taken that risk though.

and when I refer to risk, I am mostly referring to the contract. The price paid for the trade is fine

BUt the contract isn't really a risk. It's two years at yes a potentially elevated salary but the term is fine. Myers on a 6 years contract. Signing Sutter to a massive extension before he suited up. Roussel for 4 years. Beagle. Gudbranson. Those are risky contracts. The Gusev contract isn't.

Now I completely understand that the canucks were not in a position to take that "risk" but that position has nothing to do with the Gusev contract or trade assets and everything to do with the mess made by a half dozen other contracts signed by this GM. They should have been in that position but weren't. New Jersey was. They just finished winning the draft lottery (Hughes) and made 4 other picks in the top 82 or something. They have the CHL D-man of the year likely to enter the lineup in the fall. They had cap space like a rebuilding team looking to improve should have. It's very, very, very little risk for the Devils. They put themselves in the position to grab a true impact player like Subban and potentially a second one in Gusev.

 

[deckercky]

BTW, Condon for Callaghan actually makes me think Ottawa would be interested in a trade of Eriksson for Ryan @ $6M with minor picks on either side. There is no interest in icing an NHL quality roster in Ottawa, and Ryan is the only true high salary piece left. I assume Ryan would waive to come to a team in a much better situation, and Eriksson might waive if the alternative is riding buses in the AHL.

 

[Upoil]

Because I don't have time to go hunting for stats makes my argument invalid?

Yes.

If you won't spend the time to backup your claims I won't take them seriously. What a waste of time your posts are.

 

[deckercky]

BUt the contract isn't really a risk. It's two years at yes a potentially elevated salary but the term is fine. Myers on a 6 years contract. Signing Sutter to a massive extension before he suited up. Roussel for 4 years. Beagle. Gudbranson. Those are risky contracts. The Gusev contract isn't.

Gusev at $4.5M for 2 years is definitely risky compared to Miller at $5.25M for 4 years.

 

[MS]

BUt the contract isn't really a risk. It's two years at yes a potentially elevated salary but the term is fine. Myers on a 6 years contract. Signing Sutter to a massive extension before he suited up. Roussel for 4 years. Beagle. Gudbranson. Those are risky contracts. The Gusev contract isn't.

Now I completely understand that the canucks were not in a position to take that "risk" but that position has nothing to do with the Gusev contract or trade assets and everything to do with the mess made by a half dozen other contracts signed by this GM. They should have been in that position but weren't. New Jersey was. They just finished winning the draft lottery (Hughes) and made 4 other picks in the top 82 or something. They have the CHL D-man of the year likely to enter the lineup in the fall. They had cap space like a rebuilding team looking to improve should have. It's very, very, very little risk for the Devils. They put themselves in the position to grab a true impact player like Subban and potentially a second one in Gusev.

That stupid contract they gave a washed-up Wayne Simmonds is a far bigger risk than this Gusev move/contract.

But yeah, they've generally done what we should have been doing. Promoted young system guys into depth roles, stayed cheap and stayed away from stupid long-term deals to middling players, harvested draft picks, and waited for big opportunities to come along.

 

[Szechwan]

Lol, Fenton out after one year in Minny.
That Zucc contract tho.

 

[Josepho]

I used to be jealous of other fanbases experiencing a cup before us and it's gotten so bad that now I'm just jealous of fanbases that experience a GM firing before us.

 

[EpochLink]

I used to be jealous of other fanbases experiencing a cup before us and it's gotten so bad that now I'm just jealous of fanbases that experience a GM firing before us.

It’s Benning’s last year in his contract, relax

 

[MS]

Lol, Fenton out after one year in Minny.
That Zucc contract tho.

Crazy stuff.

People will claim this is a shit show but kudos to Minnesota ownership for taking the hit and embarrassment on the timing of this to make a change when they realized they'd hired a raging idiot. Wish our ownership was this proactive in 2015 or 2016.

 

[vanuck]

There goes another suitor for Louie

So you're telling me Tampa got out of that contract by downgrading from a 5th to a 6th. Nice.

 

[StreetHawk]

So you're telling me Tampa got out of that contract by downgrading from a 5th to a 6th. Nice.

They took on a $2.4 mill cap hit and $3 mill cash Condon who Ottawa had no place for in the nhl or Ahl. Saves cash for Ottawa as I would think Callahan’s contract is insured.

Weird that Tb and tor are in the same boat cap wise with a big rfa to sign yet Toronto adds an ltir contract in clarkson while TB trades theirs away yet has to eat around $1.4 mill in dead cap if they waive Condon to the A. TB has 2 other goalies as backups who count over $1 mill against the cap.

Difference in capologist strategy.

 

[deckercky]

Crazy stuff.

People will claim this is a **** show but kudos to Minnesota ownership for taking the hit and embarrassment on the timing of this to make a change when they realized they'd hired a raging idiot. Wish our ownership was this proactive in 2015 or 2016.

Benning has made a lot of poor moves, but Fenton made a number of overt on their face franchise crippling moves. He probably should have been fired the day after the Niederetter for Rask trade, and certainly should have been fired after the Grandlund for Fiala trade.

 

[tantalum]

That stupid contract they gave a washed-up Wayne Simmonds is a far bigger risk than this Gusev move/contract.

But yeah, they've generally done what we should have been doing. Promoted young system guys into depth roles, stayed cheap and stayed away from stupid long-term deals to middling players, harvested draft picks, and waited for big opportunities to come along.

Forgot about the Simmonds contract...that is a risk.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Crazy stuff.

People will claim this is a **** show but kudos to Minnesota ownership for taking the hit and embarrassment on the timing of this to make a change when they realized they'd hired a raging idiot. Wish our ownership was this proactive in 2015 or 2016.

Lots of parallels between Fenton and Early Benning:
- Plans to rebuild on the fly
- Obsessed with hockey trades instead of adding draft picks
- Veterans signed to long-term deals
- Hired his own son to work in the front office

 

[timw33]

Crazy stuff.

People will claim this is a **** show but kudos to Minnesota ownership for taking the hit and embarrassment on the timing of this to make a change when they realized they'd hired a raging idiot. Wish our ownership was this proactive in 2015 or 2016.

Their ownership understands that what you see is what you get—these 50 year-old white dudes that they hire aren't going to get better the longer they are on the job.

Fenton made a ton of completely unforced errors and showed poor assessment and judgement skills on his moves, and the longer you keep a person like that in the lead position the more irreparable harm you do to your several hundred million dollar franchise.

Pretty simple stuff, or so you'd think. Like, we saw shortsighted and impatient moves from the very first summer of Benning, and that has continued to this day and has caused thousands of tears in the sails along the way.